Men's Dress

[carolaa]

Just wondering why this subject hardly ever comes up and if anyone has any thoughts about it.

[cricket]

It doesn't come up because men aren't sexy.

[fccool]

Well, to you they are not sexy because you are one . I think it does not come up because the men are the ones that address the issues in church as most important positions are filled by men. So they tend to speak from the only perspective that they can speak from... and it is a perspective of men. Not to say that they do not consult with their wives, but their wives tend to dress them anyway,their wives also dress their children, so I think they view that issue as being resolved. On the other hand, nobody tells women want looks good in fear of a violent backlash and denial of sex for months . So they tend to go about it by way of spiritual politics. hehehehehe.

[cricket]

Nah. Men aren't sexy. Period.

[Liz]

Some men can be very sexy; and the sexy men can be sexy wearing anything--even jeans with holes in the knees. Unfortunately all men, even the sexy ones, don't look good from the knees down. It is like something went horribly horribly wrong.

[Dr. Shane]

I kind of like the top hat and bow tie but don't find many occations I can wear them.

[carolaa]

It doesn't come up because men aren't sexy.

Are you kidding?! Why do so many women swoon at so many men? Because they are eye candy.

[carolaa]

nobody tells women want looks good in fear of a violent backlash and denial of sex for months . So they tend to go about it by way of spiritual politics. hehehehehe.

Never thought of it quite that way.

[Woody]

Hummm. A Man's Dress. Only the Scottish do that as far as I know.

[cricket]

Originally Posted By: cricket

It doesn't come up because men aren't sexy.

Are you kidding?! Why do so many women swoon at so many men? Because they are eye candy.

Hmm. Not a problem for me. I don't view anyone as "eye candy".

Women *swoon* and men *ogle* because it is a learned response--a conditioned behavioral response. It is not natural.

[Dr. Shane]

Seriously, if men want to have the most influence (which is a masculine trait) and be taken most seriously, they should dress the part. Many construction managers dress in jeans and a regular shirt - sometimes button-up sometimes a polo. I dress in dress pants and a tie except on Fridays I permit myself to wear jeans. I didn't always but since I have began I find that subcontractors, architects and owners respond to me much better and take me more seriously.

A man's dress at work is determined by his job. Some cooks simply wear jeans and a t-shirt. Others wear a chef's hat with the white blouse. Of course the latter is going to leave a better first impression with customers. Some mechanics simple wear jeans and a t-shirt while others wear coveralls with their name and business embroidered on them. Different jobs have different types of dress and uniforms. I have found those that dress the part have more influence and are respected more.

[Neil D]

Women *swoon* and men *ogle* because it is a learned response--a conditioned behavioral response. It is not natural.

Is that a bad thing Cricket? Does it not promote communication?

[cricket]

Yeah. It's bad. It's bad because it's not as God intended.

[Woody]

Quote:

It is not natural.

Tell that to any man since Adam ....

[olger]

My last jeans cost almost $12 a PAIR at Walmart. But, sometimes you have to live life in the fast lane.

oG

[D. Allan]

Seriously, if men want to have the most influence (which is a masculine trait) and be taken most seriously, they should dress the part. Many construction managers dress in jeans and a regular shirt - sometimes button-up sometimes a polo. I dress in dress pants and a tie except on Fridays I permit myself to wear jeans. I didn't always but since I have began I find that subcontractors, architects and owners respond to me much better and take me more seriously.

some would say this just goes to show that for men even their 'dress' (i wouldn't be caught dead in a dress {out of my room, that is!}, just kiddn' ) as i was sayn' even their 'dress'es are just another machiavellian technique to wreak their will upon others. some might say or think that. i'm sorta leanin' that way. even tho' i'm one of that sub-species of Homo sapiens.

[D. Allan]

My last jeans cost almost $12 a PAIR at Walmart. But, sometimes you have to live life in the fast lane.

oG

hiya oGle (he he hehehe) thats one advantage of being yr own boss.

[olger]

:)

amen

[fccool]

Seriously, if men want to have the most influence (which is a masculine trait) and be taken most seriously, they should dress the part. Many construction managers dress in jeans and a regular shirt - sometimes button-up sometimes a polo. I dress in dress pants and a tie except on Fridays I permit myself to wear jeans. I didn't always but since I have began I find that subcontractors, architects and owners respond to me much better and take me more seriously.

A man's dress at work is determined by his job. Some cooks simply wear jeans and a t-shirt. Others wear a chef's hat with the white blouse. Of course the latter is going to leave a better first impression with customers. Some mechanics simple wear jeans and a t-shirt while others wear coveralls with their name and business embroidered on them. Different jobs have different types of dress and uniforms. I have found those that dress the part have more influence and are respected more.

Shane, I don't disagree, yet culturally I think it is an interesting discussion in itself. It is a matter "preference" and not a golden rule. I am a strong believer in good old Russian adage " People greet you by your dress, and say good by to you based on your intellect". So, for business it does not matter how well you dress and pretend to look solid, eventually it is your skills that matter. People make a huge deal about looking good because they can and consumerism culture revolves around looking good. "Looking good" is so vague today that it's hullarious to see what looks good for the "experts". As I observe the deconstructivist fashion, and the creative experts behind it... I can't help but ask myself... are these the people who dress our society? But again... when in Rome...

[D. Allan]

Quote:

good old Russian adage " People greet you by your dress, and say good by to you based on your intellect". So, for business it does not matter how well you dress and pretend to look solid, eventually it is your skills that matter.

spasibo komrad!

the people i admire most are so dedicated so enwrapt in their work that their dress matters little to them.

[Dr. Shane]

A study was done with telemarketers. All telemarketers were told one month they could wear anything they wanted to work including sweat pants or pajamas. The next month all workers were required to wear formal clothing: suits, ties, dress, skirts, etc.

It was discovered that the telemarketers sales were significantly higher when they were dressed in formal clothing. Of course being telemarketers, all sales are made by phone so the customers never see the sales people.

In the 1990s when the high-tech sector was on fire many Wall Street brokering firms stopped requiring brokers to dress in formal wear. After 9/11 when the market really fell apart, most of these firms returned to their previous policies of requiring brokers to be dressed formally.

How we dress does impact our job performance. That much is established. Does it impact other areas of our lives too?

[fccool]

A study was done with telemarketers. All telemarketers were told one month they could wear anything they wanted to work including sweat pants or pajamas. The next month all workers were required to wear formal clothing: suits, ties, dress, skirts, etc.

It was discovered that the telemarketers sales were significantly higher when they were dressed in formal clothing. Of course being telemarketers, all sales are made by phone so the customers never see the sales people.

Shane, rules of logic . Cum hoc ergo propter hoc. One does not necessitate the other. The sales fluctuate constantly and there are numerous variables that come to play outside of the scope of how people dress. Also, what works for people who try to jam products down your throat and only concerned about "closing the deal", will not work for everybody . Eventually it does not matter how well you dress, if you can't perform your tasks efficiently, your dress will be of very little help. It may help very little hence "people greet you by your dress", but the bulk will be in "people saying farewell by your intellect".

The fact that you are wearing suit and tie may cause a CULTURALLY TRIGGERED EMBEDDED response of respect and reverence, but eventually you will be received by your actions and words and no suit is going to cover those up.

And if you really need a suit to take yourself a bit more seriously, then by all means... whatever helps.

[D. Allan]

Quote:

How we dress does impact our job performance.

what was the scientific result of the study? probably that ones self-image 'impacts' (affects) performance, (whether job-related performance or other types). some people have such a low self-esteem that it must be shored-up, bolstered with fancy clothing and other props which they hope makes them look better than the rest of the hoi-polloi they must deal with. one such prop other than clothing is the adoption of conventional ideals.

people are afraid to just be themselves, (or being themselves makes them uncomfortable?). no?

[Dr. Shane]

I read about the study in a business article, not a scientific journal so they didn't go into any pyscho analysis. It would seem to me that a person's dress certainly is impacting their self-image. Much like studies that have shown students wearing uniforms to school tend to have less disciplinary problems. The results are significant enough that many companies have adopted dress codes.

[fccool]

... Much like studies that have shown students wearing uniforms to school tend to have less disciplinary problems. The results are significant enough that many companies have adopted dress codes.

I really appreciated uniforms in school because these were practical. You did not have to worry about choosing an "appropriate" attire. But I did grow up in Communist Russia where scientific test showed that students would less likely to express individuality if all of them dress the same. I think this is the reasoning behind the dress code today, and it has little to do with performance and self esteem, but with conformity to the code... or subordination. People who adhere to dress code will less likely to question authority and express individuality and will more likely to be a part of the Groupthink.

Just like today, storing cosmetic items in the plastic bags on the planes supposed to make us "safer", but how? Wheather they are in or out of the bags makes very little difference, but the security officials insist on confiscating those cosmetic items if these are not stored in little plastic bags. The issue is conformity and compliance and not that of "safety". I find it humorous and unreasonable, as well as other people:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzoKPJU3Wp4

I think the issue of dress is the same issue here. If my job performance does not historically depend on what I wear, why should my boss insist that I do? My boss does not, but he values my abilities and contribution to the company as what I do for the company is much more important to our clients than the clothes that I wear. And it is an established fact . I does not mean that I show up in pajamas to work though.