Suzanne Sutton Posted March 20, 2008 Share Posted March 20, 2008 'Deception': Christians War Over Worship Day WorldNetDaily, March 16, 2008 Two thousand years after Jesus walked the Earth, Christians are at war with each other concerning--as strange as it may sound--a day of the week mentioned in the Ten commandments. The issue boils down to: "When is God's Sabbath?" In other words, what is His holy day of rest? Many Christians today think it's Sunday, when the majority of churches hold services. But other confidently say it's Saturday, calling Sunday worship "the most flagrant error of mainstream Christianity," believing Sunday-keepers are victims of clever deception. Some high-profile evangelical pastors such as California's Greg Lurie say it's simply "wrong to set Saturday apart as a special day for worwhip." See the rest of the article: Sabbath vs. Sunday Suzanne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olger Posted March 20, 2008 Share Posted March 20, 2008 hmmmm thanks Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Posted March 20, 2008 Share Posted March 20, 2008 I often find that news site, worldnetdaily.com, often, in my opinion, overstates issues. Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted March 22, 2008 Share Posted March 22, 2008 Oh boy...both sides have it wrong! There's nothing in the 4th commandment about worship! Nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted March 22, 2008 Moderators Share Posted March 22, 2008 Oh boy...both sides have it wrong! There's nothing in the 4th commandment about worship! Nothing. And when the believer is contemplating God's creation and praising His redemptive act symbolized by the Sabbath, what do you think he is doing? Gerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 Originally Posted By: Robert Oh boy...both sides have it wrong! There's nothing in the 4th commandment about worship! Nothing. And when the believer is contemplating God's creation and praising His redemptive act symbolized by the Sabbath, what do you think he is doing? Gerry Like I said, there's no mention of worship. You are making it up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 Here is a better link: 'Deception': Christians war over worship day It is a pretty lengthy article but I think it is fair to the issue. I have heard Pastor Greg Lurie preach on the issue and his points are weak - very weak. I wrote him a detailed letter breaking down each point he made. Of course he didn't answer. I don't like his preaching style even when I agree with what he is teaching. He comes across as very arrogant. I guess the basketball team controversy in Oregon brought this article about. Good. We are getting people thinking. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted March 23, 2008 Moderators Share Posted March 23, 2008 There's one very important point about the Sunday/Sabbath issue that the article neglected to mention: if Sunday was intended by God to be part of the New Covenant, it would have needed to be made part of it before the New Covenant was ratified by the death of Christ. The Bible itself says that nothing can be either added to or subtracted from a covenant once it has been ratified. Therefore, since there is no suggestion of a change in the way the Sabbath is kept, and since Christians kept the seventh-day Sabbath after Christ's death and resurrection, it follows that there was no change in the day of rest and of worship. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted March 23, 2008 Moderators Share Posted March 23, 2008 Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo And when the believer is contemplating God's creation and praising His redemptive act symbolized by the Sabbath' date=' what do you think he is doing? Gerry [/quote'] Like I said, there's no mention of worship. You are making it up! Willing obedience from the heart is the highest form of worship. Therefore, to truly obey God is to worship God, and this includes obeying God's commandment to keep the Sabbath day holy by not working on it. It's obvious from the language of the commandment that the whole purpose of it is to remember the fact that God is the Creator of the world. As a matter of fact, the entire Ten Commandment law is about worship. We can't separate the fourth commandment from any of the first three commandments, and these obviously have to do with worship. The second commandment forbids the worship of images. Why? Because the commandments require us to worship only the Creator, the same Creator who made the Sabbath and commands us to keep it holy. Rev. 14: 7 makes a clear connection by quoting Exodus 20: 11 and then calls upon us to worship God. The apostle Paul makes the same connection between the Sabbath commandment and worship of the Creator in Acts 14: 15;17: 23, 24. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 Rev. 14: 7 makes a clear connection by quoting Exodus 20: 11 and then calls upon us to worship God. You are adding to Ex 20:11 by your use of Rev 14:7. Again, it's not about worship. There's nothing in the 4th commandment stating that folks should worship on Saturday. So the argument between various groups as to which day is the correct day to worship on is a moot point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted March 23, 2008 Moderators Share Posted March 23, 2008 Originally Posted By: John317 Rev. 14: 7 makes a clear connection by quoting Exodus 20: 11 and then calls upon us to worship God. You are adding to Ex 20:11 by your use of Rev 14:7. Again, it's not about worship. There's nothing in the 4th commandment stating that folks should worship on Saturday. So the argument between various groups as to which day is the correct day to worship on is a moot point. If the Creator did not sanctify and bless it for a day of worship, what was the whole purpose of it? Gerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 Originally Posted By: Robert You are adding to Ex 20:11 by your use of Rev 14:7. Again' date=' it's not about worship. There's nothing in the 4th commandment stating that folks should worship on Saturday. So the argument between various groups as to which day is the correct day to worship on is a moot point. [/quote'] If the Creator did not sanctify and bless it for a day of worship, what was the whole purpose of it? Gerry The fact is that the 4th commandment contains no command to worship on the 7th day: Ex 20:8 “Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 “Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a sabbath of the Lord your God; in it you shall not do any work...[Why rest - not work?] 11 “For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day and made it holy." So, why rest? Because God rested from His perfect and complete work! However there is a difference between our rest and His rest. According to the text our rest is weekly. His rest was once and final. By that I mean He didn't start creating on the 8th day (the Sunday after that 1st, 7th day). His work was finished - it was complete. He entered a perpetual rest until sin entered the world. That, however, is another subject. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted March 23, 2008 Moderators Share Posted March 23, 2008 Are you saying that the God of heaven set the 7th apart and made it a blessed day only for rest? If the Israelites did not understand it as not only a day of rest but also of worship, where do you think they got the idea to make it a day of worship? Gerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 Are you saying that the God of heaven set the 7th apart and made it a blessed day only for rest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 In light of the NT Sabbath keeping becomes the seal of righteousness by faith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted March 24, 2008 Moderators Share Posted March 24, 2008 Originally Posted By: John317 Rev. 14: 7 makes a clear connection by quoting Exodus 20: 11 and then calls upon us to worship God. You are adding to Ex 20:11 by your use of Rev 14:7. Again, it's not about worship. There's nothing in the 4th commandment stating that folks should worship on Saturday. So the argument between various groups as to which day is the correct day to worship on is a moot point. "For as the new heavens and the new earth which I make shall remain before Me, says the Lord, so shall your offspring and your name remain. And it shall be that from one New Moon to another New Moon and from one Sabbath to another Sabbath, all flesh shall come to worship before Me, says the Lord" (Is. 66: 22. 23). Leviticus 23: 3: "Six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of rest, a holy convocation or assembly by summons. You shall do no work on that day; it is the Sabbath of the Lord in all your dwellings" (Amplified). ".... but the seventh day is... a time for worship...." (The Bible In Basic English). "The Seventh-day is a day of worship, a day when you don't work, a holy assembly" (God's Word). "On that day [the seventh day Sabbath] do not work, but gather for worship" (Good News Bible). “You have six days each week for your ordinary work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath day of complete rest, an official day for holy assembly. It is the Lord’s Sabbath day, and it must be observed wherever you live" (New Living Translation). "You have six days when you can do your work, but the seventh day of each week is holy because it belongs to me. No matter where you live, you must rest on the Sabbath and come together for worship." (Contemporary English Version). Most modern translations, such as the Christian Standard Bible and the Revised English Bible, and many more, translate Lev. 23: 3 as calling for a "a sacred assembly" on the seventh day Sabbath. This, of course, is a time for worship, just as the Bible in Basic English and others read. Jesus, who made the Sabbath and gave humanity the Ten Commandments, knew what it was for, and Luke 4: 16 tells us that He was usually to be found worshipping God in the synagogue every Sabbath. Ellen White wrote, "He [God] designed that upon that day [the holy Sabbath] man should worship Him and engage in no secular pursuits" (4 T 247). "The Sabbath is not intended to be a period of useless inactivity. The law forbids secular labor on the rest day of the Lord; the toil that gains a livelihood must cease; no labor for worldly pleasure or profit is lawful upon that day; but as God ceased His labor of creating, and rested upon the Sabbath and blessed it, so man is to leave the occupations of his daily life, and devote those sacred hours to healthful rest, to worship, and to holy deeds" (DA 207). Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted March 24, 2008 Moderators Share Posted March 24, 2008 In light of the NT Sabbath keeping becomes the seal of righteousness by faith. Jesus and the apostles did not reveal something about the Sabbath-- i.e., its being the seal of the righteousness by faith--that was not true before the time of Christ. He simply revealed things that people could not see because of spiritual blindness, but not because it was not true or because they could not possibly have known this before. They did not see it because, as Paul explains in 2 Cor. 3, their minds were hardened or closed. Remember that God told them clearly that the Sabbath was a sign that Yahweh was the One who sanctifies them, or makes them holy like Himself. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 And it shall be that from one New Moon to another New Moon and from one Sabbath to another Sabbath, all flesh shall come to worship before Me, says the Lord" (Is. 66: 22. 23). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 Originally Posted By: Robert In light of the NT Sabbath keeping becomes the seal of righteousness by faith. Jesus and the apostles did not reveal something about the Sabbath-- i.e., its being the seal of the righteousness by faith--that was not true before the time of Christ. The only reason for NT Sabbath observance is found in Hebrews chapter 4. Other than that there's no clear connection.... Paul, in Hebrews 4, links the Sabbath to a sign of "entering His rest" (the gospel). That's the only legitimate reason.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 The Sabbath/Sunday issue.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted March 24, 2008 Moderators Share Posted March 24, 2008 Quote: ROBERT: This is future and it doesn't negate what is stated in the moral law. Clearly the moral law links rest (not worship) to God's perfect creation. Your interpretation seems to me to be highly legalistic here. You're going by the "letter of the law" rather than by the spirit of the law. Allow the Holy Spirit to speak through the rest of the Scriptures. Quote: Amplified, The Bible In Basic English, God's Word, Good News Bible, New Living Translation, Contemporary English Version, I can make up my own Bible too.... The idea of worship is clearly implied in Lev. 23: 3. What do you believe holy assembly or meeting [Miqrae'] is? Quote: JOHN3:17-- Ellen White wrote... Quote: Not an authority! I thought you believed in her writings; at least you have often quoted her. You so often quote Jack Sequeira. He is certainly no authority. There seems to be a double standard here. Perhaps you only use her and reject what she says when you do not find it agreeable to you. Quote: Anyway, back to a solid translation: 8 “Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 “Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a sabbath of the Lord your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you. 11 “For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day and made it holy. [The New American Standard Bible] What does it mean to say that God "blessed the seventh day"? Blessed it to what end? What is the significance of the Sabbath? What is it made for? The description of it as having been "blessed" signifies that God made it for some kind of appointment. It means that God has an appointment with people, to meet with them. That is implied very clearly in the whole idea of blessing the day. We need to read the Sabbath commandment in the context of the other nine commandments, such as the second. As I said before, all of the moral law has to do with the worship of God. Read the Sabbath commandment, also, in the context of many other Bible verses, particularly Jesus' words. Otherwise your reading and understanding of it is likely to be legalistic. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted March 24, 2008 Moderators Share Posted March 24, 2008 The Sabbath/Sunday issue.... NOT AN AUTHORITY. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted March 24, 2008 Moderators Share Posted March 24, 2008 Originally Posted By: John317 Jesus and the apostles did not reveal something about the Sabbath-- i.e.' date=' its being the seal of the righteousness by faith--that was not true before the time of Christ. [/quote'] The only reason for NT Sabbath observance is found in Hebrews chapter 4. Other than that there's no clear connection.... Paul, in Hebrews 4, links the Sabbath to a sign of "entering His rest" (the gospel). That's the only legitimate reason.... A while ago, you said that Isaiah 66: 22, 23 does not negate the Sabbath commandment in Ex. 20, and I agree. They both are true. It is the same with Hebrew 4. It does not negate Ex. 20. The Sabbath of the NT and the OT is one and the same Sabbath. It did not change before the New Covenant was ratified. We keep the Sabbath because of God's creation and God's redemptive act in Jesus Christ. It is the same God acting on behalf of mankind. He first created us before he died for us, but both his creation and redemption have to do with His giving us life. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 We keep the Sabbath because of God's creation and God's redemptive act in Jesus Christ. Again, the only legitimate reason is redemptive. God's creation was ruined by the fall and therefore your resting in it makes no sense..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 Originally Posted By: Robert The Sabbath/Sunday issue.... NOT AN AUTHORITY. When I read my Bible and compare it with Jack's understanding I come up with a clearer more precise picture.....Besides, Ellen made the following statements: "We [EGW includes herself] have only the glimmerings of the rays of the light [truth] that is yet to come to us." 1] Define a glimmer: "A faint, unsteady light; feeble, scattered rays of light; also, a gleam." 2] Notice that "that is yet to come" is in the future tense! How do I read her quote? We have only faint, feeble, scattered rays of truth compared to that, which is yet to come to us. Here's another: "We [again, EGW is included] have many lessons to learn, and many, many to unlearn. God and heaven alone are infallible. Those who think that they will never have to give up a cherished view, never have occasion to change an opinion, will be disappointed." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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