'Deception': Christians War Over Worship Day

[John317]

Quote:

Quote from Ellen White: “God is not a man, that He should lie.” God’s law is the rule of His government. He says, “This do, and thou shalt live.” But to the disobedient He says, “Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things written in the book of the law to do them.” “The soul that sinneth, it shall die.” God has given the promise that those who obey His law will be rewarded, not only in the present life, but in the life to come. He declares just as decidedly that those who do not obey His requirements shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on them. By lips that never lie the obedient are blessed, and the disobedient are pronounced guilty.

I challenge you on this one too, John.

Robert, please answer the following questions:

(1) Did Ellen White preface her statement by saying that she was referring to "complete" or absolute obedience to the law of God? In other words, is she talking about the necessity of being sinless?

(2) Is she saying that this is speaking of an attempt to obey the law of God for the purpose of earning righteousness and salvation?

(3) Do you believe that any human besides Christ can be said to be "obedient" to God? Can anyone be said to obey God's commandments or His law?

This helps explain your quote above:

Patriarchs and Prophets, pp. 372, 373--

The terms of the "old covenant" were, Obey and live: "If a man do, he shall even live in them" (Ezekiel 20:11; Leviticus 18:5); but "cursed be he that confirmeth not all the words of this law to do them." Deuteronomy 27:26. The "new covenant" was established upon "better promises"--the promise of forgiveness of sins and of the grace of God to renew the heart and bring it into harmony with the principles of God's law. "This shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts . . . . I will forgive their iniquity, and will remember their sin no more." Jeremiah 31:33, 34.

The same law that was engraved upon the tables of stone is written by the Holy Spirit upon the tables of the heart. Instead of going about to establish our own righteousness we accept the righteousness of Christ. His blood atones for our sins. His obedience is accepted for us. Then the heart renewed by the Holy Spirit will bring forth "the fruits of the Spirit." Through the grace of Christ we shall live in obedience to the law of God written upon our hearts. Having the Spirit of Christ, we shall walk even as He walked. Through the prophet He declared of Himself, "I delight to do Thy will, O My God: yea, Thy law is within My heart." Psalm 40:8. And when among men He said, "The Father hath not left Me alone; for I do always those things that please Him." John 8:29.

The apostle Paul clearly presents the relation between faith and the law under the new covenant. He says: "Being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ." "Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law." "For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh"--it could not justify man, because in his sinful nature he could not keep the law--"God sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." Romans 5:1, 3:31, 8:3, 4.

[John317]

Complete obedience is the only condition that meets the requirement of the law. “God is not a man, that He should lie.” God’s law is the rule of His government. He says, “This do, and thou shalt live.” But to the disobedient He says, “Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things written in the book of the law to do them.” “The soul that sinneth, it shall die.” God has given the promise that those who obey His law will be rewarded, not only in the present life, but in the life to come. He declares just as decidedly that those who do not obey His requirements shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on them. By lips that never lie the obedient are blessed, and the disobedient are pronounced guilty.

Quote:

Finally, where is the Ellen White quote found in a standard publication?

What is PC, PT, DT, AT, and PR? I don't have any publications of hers with these abbreviations.

Quote:

Ellen White CD. Advent Review and Sabbath Herald

Is that the most specific source you can give me for the quote? I don't have the Ellen White CD. Isn't there a specific title and page number? Could you give me the exact date of that quote as it appears in the Advent Review and Sabbath Herald?

[Robert]

Quote:

Quote from Ellen White: “God is not a man, that He should lie.” God’s law is the rule of His government. He says, “This do, and thou shalt live.” But to the disobedient He says, “Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things written in the book of the law to do them.” “The soul that sinneth, it shall die.” God has given the promise that those who obey His law will be rewarded, not only in the present life, but in the life to come. He declares just as decidedly that those who do not obey His requirements shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on them. By lips that never lie the obedient are blessed, and the disobedient are pronounced guilty.

I challenge you on this one too, John.

Robert, please answer the following questions:

(1) Did Ellen White preface her statement by saying that she was referring to "complete" or absolute obedience to the law of God? In other words, is she talking about the necessity of being sinless?

[John317]

[Robert]

I'd like to see the entire quote and the context, so please give me the reference, including the page number. What book is it found in?

[Gerr]

Quote:

Quote:

Notice what Paul says in Romans 3: 23-- "all have sinned and continue to fall short of God's glory." It doesn't say we go on sinning. It says we continue to fall short of God's glory but it doesn't call that "sinning."

John, I'm shaking my head at your fancy, self-righteous footwork. You'll say anything, do anything, ignore anything that makes it look like you are still a sinner. This is dangerous - real dangerous.

Here's what Paul says: "there is no distinction; for all have sinned [past tense] and fall short [continuous present tense] of the glory of God [His goodness]".

According to Paul, although you do grow, you are not measuring up to the spirit of God's law as seen in the life of Christ. Sorry, but you must come out of your delusion.

"For the grace of God has been revealed, bringing salvation to all people. And we are instructed to turn from godless living and sinful pleasures. We should live in this evil world with wisdom, righteousness,and devotion to God, while we look forward with hope to that wonderful day when the glory of our great and God and Savior, Jesus Christ will be revealed. He gave His life to FREE us from EVERY kind of SIN, to cleanse us, and to make us His very own people, totally committed to doing GOOD DEEDS." Titus 2:11-14 NLT.

"Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law....Love does no wrong to a neighbor, therefore love is the fulfilling of the law." Rom 13:8,10 ESV.

"Do not owe people anything, except always owe love to each other, because the person who loves others has obeyed ALL the law." NCV

BTW, what is that good fruit that the believers bear when they put their faith in Jesus?

Gerry

[John317]

Quote:

ROBERT: John, I already did this when I first quoted her. Go find that post.

Here are all the places on the thread where you quote the passage under discussion, and in not one of those places do you give the name of a book and the number of the page.

Quote:

-PC- RH

-PT- Advent Review and Sabbath Herald

-DT- 05-07-01

-AT- The Great Standard of Righteousness

-PR- 09

Complete obedience is the only condition that meets the requirement of the law. “God is not a man, that He should lie.” God’s law is the rule of His government. He says, “This do, and thou shalt live.” But to the disobedient He says, “Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things written in the book of the law to do them.” “The soul that sinneth, it shall die.” God has given the promise that those who obey His law will be rewarded, not only in the present life, but in the life to come. He declares just as decidedly that those who do not obey His requirements shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on them. By lips that never lie the obedient are blessed, and the disobedient are pronounced guilty.

=====================

Quote:

Finally, where is the Ellen White quote found in a standard publication?

What is PC, PT, DT, AT, and PR? I don't have any publications of hers with these abbreviations.

Ellen White CD. Advent Review and Sabbath Herald

=========================================

That's why EGW can be quoted saying,

Complete obedience [not partial...not almost holy, but complete obedience'] is the only condition that meets the requirement of the law. “God is not a man, that He should lie.” God’s law is the rule of His government. He says, “This do, and thou shalt live.” But to the disobedient [those failing to produce "complete obedience"] He says, “Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things written in the book of the law to do them.” “The soul that sinneth, it shall die.” God has given the promise that those who obey His law will be rewarded, not only in the present life, but in the life to come. He declares just as decidedly that those who do not obey His requirements shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on them. By lips that never lie the obedient are blessed, and the disobedient are pronounced guilty.

_________________________

That's why EGW can be quoted saying,

Complete obedience [not partial...not almost holy, but complete obedience] is the only condition that meets the requirement of the law. “God is not a man, that He should lie.” God’s law is the rule of His government. He says, “This do, and thou shalt live.” But to the disobedient [those failing to produce "complete obedience"] He says, “Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things written in the book of the law to do them.” “The soul that sinneth, it shall die.” God has given the promise that those who obey His law will be rewarded, not only in the present life, but in the life to come. He declares just as decidedly that those who do not obey His requirements shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on them. By lips that never lie the obedient are blessed, and the disobedient are pronounced guilty.

=================

That's why EGW can be quoted saying,

Complete obedience [not partial...not almost holy, but complete obedience] is the only condition that meets the requirement of the law. “God is not a man, that He should lie.” God’s law is the rule of His government. He says, “This do, and thou shalt live.” But to the disobedient [those failing to produce "complete obedience"] He says, “Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things written in the book of the law to do them.” “The soul that sinneth, it shall die.” God has given the promise that those who obey His law will be rewarded, not only in the present life, but in the life to come. He declares just as decidedly that those who do not obey His requirements shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on them. By lips that never lie the obedient are blessed, and the disobedient are pronounced guilty.

===============================

That's why EGW makes those OC statements to SDA. She is being used of God (I believe) to breakdown the legalists within the church. God must rid the church of legalism. How does He do this? By making it impossible for legalists. When you realize how selfish you are...when you realize the marked difference between your self-love and Christ's agape love, then you will be prepared to be clothed with the garments of Christ's imputed righteousness. Then, and only then, will you be able to genuinely experience Christ's imparted righteousness. Until then you remain under the curse!

Who said the above? EGW:

-BC- 20MR

-TI- Manuscript Releases Volume Twenty

-CN- 1446

-CT- Seek God's Will; Distrust Self; Adopt Health Principles; Follow Christ in

Self-denial and Sacrifice

-PR- 03

-PG- 117

======================================================

JOHN3:17-- I'd like to see the entire quote and the context, so please give me the reference, including the page number. What book is it found in?

John, I already did this when I first quoted her. Go find that post.

I found the post, and looked at all the other places on the thread where the quote was given, but the reference is not anywhere there. Again, I have all of her published books, but not the Review and Herald or the Ellen White CD. What is the date of the quote in the Review and Herald? It would really help if you would give references by their actual title and page number. If it's an obscure publication or source, or one that is not listed in the comprehensive Index, please give the whole title rather than an abbreviation.

[John317]

[John317]

Quote:

Notice what Paul says in Romans 3: 23-- "all have sinned and continue to fall short of God's glory." It doesn't say we go on sinning. It says we continue to fall short of God's glory but it doesn't call that "sinning."

Where does Paul or any other Bible writer say that people cannot help but go on "sinning"? Notice that Paul makes a distinction between "sinning" and "falling short." He says "all HAVE sinned" (aorist-- past tense) but we continue to "fall short of God's glory." Those are obviously two different things. Nowhere does the Bible say, "All continue to sin" and will never stop sinning. On the contrary, see what 1 John 3: 1-10 says.

Let me tell you clearly that I am not saying I am not a sinner. It is incredible to me you are still saying the same thing about this that you were saying over a year ago. No one here is saying they are not a sinner or in need of Christ. Please go back and reread what I said earlier.

Falling short of God's glory is not the same as deliberate, willful, conscious sin. So the Bible makes a distinction between "sinning" and "falling short." Otherwise it would be impossible for the apostle John to say what he says in 1 John 3: 1-10. For instance, there he says that no one born of God continues to practice sin. But he obviously does not mean people born of God do not ever fall short of God's glory, does he? Therefore it is obvious that continuing to sin is not the same as "falling short of God's glory." Paul did not go on practicing sin but he did fall short of God's glory.

[Robert]

Originally Posted By: Robert

Quote:

Notice what Paul says in Romans 3: 23-- "all have sinned and continue to fall short of God's glory." It doesn't say we go on sinning. It says we continue to fall short of God's glory but it doesn't call that "sinning."

Where does Paul or any other Bible writer say that people cannot help but go on "sinning"?

JOHN! Read what I write....Read!

I never said I go on sinning, never. That's your invention. I've clearly stated that folks who have accepted Christ bare fruit...that means they mature...they grow. But just because one grows does not mean he is fulfilling the law.

Name one person, besides Christ, that exhibited no love of self - no self-seeking; only living for others. And if you do his/her motive must be perfect - i.e., selfless.

Quote:

Notice that Paul makes a distinction between "sinning" and "falling short."

Come on...that's nuts! To fall short of God's agape means I am not fully measuring up. There's still self-love & self-seeking in my life.

The fact is if Christ had come up short He would have been found a sinner. So "falling short" is not fully answering the law. What part of this don't you understand?

[John317]

[John317]

Do you believe that the Bible makes a distinction between intentional, deliberate, willful practice of sin and unintentional falling short of God's glory?

[Robert]

Originally Posted By: Robert

Do you believe that the Bible makes a distinction between intentional' date=' deliberate, willful practice of sin and unintentional falling short of God's glory? [/quote']

Willful sin is the persistent refusal to repent of known sin - period! If you define it any other way then all of us are practicing sin!

Now look at how Christ lived His spotless life:

“He lived a life free from self-seeking, wholly given to the service of others.” [EGW]

“The Saviour lived not to please Himself. In His life there was not trace of selfishness." [EGW]

Can you say that there is absolutely no "self-seeking" in your life - that everything you do is for the benefit of others? If no then according to your theology you are practicing sin and therefore of the devil.

I am not free of selfishness, period. I bet you aren't either! Are you confessing your sinfulness? I do - I acknowledge my "unlikeness to Christ" [EGW], but at the same time I want to experience more agape in my life. I can't generate it...I can't produce it. I can only rest in Christ's perfect redemption. As I do I begin to experience some of His love, but until the resurrection I will be "falling short" of God's agape love. Do deny this truth is practicing sin - it is refusing to acknowledge our true condition.

The one sin that will exclude the believer from heaven is the sin of self-righteousness - the unpardonable sin.

Rob

[John317]

Originally Posted By: John317

Willful sin is the persistent refusal to repent of known sin - period! If you define it any other way then all of us are practicing sin!

Now look at how Christ lived His spotless life:

“He lived a life free from self-seeking, wholly given to the service of others.” [EGW']

“The Saviour lived not to please Himself. In His life there was not trace of selfishness." [EGW]

Can you say that there is absolutely no "self-seeking" in your life - that everything you do is for the benefit of others? If no then according to your theology you are practicing sin and therefore of the devil.

But neither the Bible nor the Spirit of prophecy teach this. The Bible does not define the practice of sin in this way. It is your own invention. Look at what 1 John 3: 1-10 says:

1 SEE WHAT [an incredible] quality of love the Father has given (shown, bestowed on) us, that we should [be permitted to] be named and called and counted the children of God! And so we are! The reason that the world does not know (recognize, acknowledge) us is that it does not know (recognize, acknowledge) Him.

2 Beloved, we are [even here and] now God's children; it is not yet disclosed (made clear) what we shall be [hereafter], but we know that when He comes and is manifested, we shall [as God's children] resemble and be like Him, for we shall see Him just as He [really] is.

3 And everyone who has this hope [resting] on Him cleanses (purifies) himself just as He is pure (chaste, undefiled, guiltless).

4 Everyone who commits (practices) sin is guilty of lawlessness; for [that is what] sin is, lawlessness (the breaking, violating of God's law by transgression or neglect--being unrestrained and unregulated by His commands and His will).

5 You know that He appeared in visible form and became Man to take away [upon Himself] sins, and in Him there is no sin [essentially and forever].

6 No one who abides in Him [who lives and remains [e]in communion with and in obedience to Him--deliberately, knowingly, and habitually] commits (practices) sin. No one who [habitually] sins has either seen or known Him [recognized, perceived, or understood Him, or has had an experiential acquaintance with Him].

7 Boys (lads), let no one deceive and lead you astray. He who practices righteousness [who is upright, conforming to the divine will in purpose, thought, and action, living a consistently conscientious life] is righteous, even as He is righteous.

8[but] he who commits sin [who practices evildoing] is of the devil [takes his character from the evil one], for the devil has sinned (violated the divine law) from the beginning. The reason the Son of God was made manifest (visible) was to undo (destroy, loosen, and dissolve) the works the devil [has done].

9 No one born (begotten) of God [deliberately, knowingly, and [h]habitually] practices sin, for God's nature abides in him [His principle of life, the divine sperm, remains permanently within him]; and he cannot practice sinning because he is born (begotten) of God.

10By this it is made clear who take their nature from God and are His children and who take their nature from the devil and are his children: no one who does not practice righteousness [who does not conform to God's will in purpose, thought, and action] is of God; neither is anyone who does not love his brother (his fellow believer in Christ).

Quote:

I am not free of selfishness, period. I bet you aren't either! Are you confessing your sinfulness? I do - I acknowledge my "unlikeness to Christ" [EGW], but at the same time I want to experience more agape in my life. I can't generate it...I can't produce it.

The last section is excellent, Robert.

[Robert]

The Bible does not define the practice of sin in this way. It is your own invention.

1 John 1:8 If we claim to be without sin [not falling short of God's agape], we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Clearly practicing sin is refusing to repent of it. Sounds like your interpretation is faulty!

[Robert]

Now back to "obey and live, disobey and die"! That's the terms EGW gave to the Old Covenant. Yet she used these terms when writing to Adventists. Why?

[John317]

Originally Posted By: John317

The Bible does not define the practice of sin in this way. It is your own invention.

1 John 1:8 If we claim to be without sin [not falling short of God's agape], we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Clearly practicing sin is refusing to repent of it. Sounds like your interpretation is faulty!

It goes without saying that we are to confess and repent of sins that the Holy Spirit convicts us of. We discussed that aspect already, several times.

[John317]

Now back to "obey and live, disobey and die"! That's the terms EGW gave to the Old Covenant. Yet she used these terms when writing to Adventists. Why?

Give me the title and page number of the book it is found in, so I can discuss it with you. Remember that I don't have the Ellen White CD or the Review and Herald.

[Robert]

Originally Posted By: Robert

Now back to "obey and live, disobey and die"! That's the terms EGW gave to the Old Covenant. Yet she used these terms when writing to Adventists. Why?

Give me the title and page number of the book it is found in, so I can discuss it with you. Remember that I don't have the Ellen White CD or the Review and Herald.

-PC- RH

-PT- Advent Review and Sabbath Herald

-DT- 5/7/1901

-AT- The Great Standard of Righteousness

-PR- 09

Complete obedience is the only condition that meets the requirement of the law. "God is not a man, that He should lie." God's law is the rule of His government. He says, "This do, and thou shalt live." But to the disobedient He says, "Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things written in the book of the law to do them." "The soul that sinneth, it shall die." God has given the promise that those who obey His law will be rewarded, not only in the present life, but in the life to come. He declares just as decidedly that those who do not obey His requirements shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on them. By lips that never lie the obedient are blessed, and the disobedient are pronounced guilty.

If you think I am lying get a friend somewhere to look it up. Now, what do you do with the terms of the OC - i.e., "obey and live, disobey and die"?

[Robert]

Originally Posted By: Robert

1 John 1:8 If we claim to be without sin [not falling short of God's agape]' date=' we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Clearly practicing sin is refusing to repent of it. Sounds like your interpretation is faulty![/quote']

It goes without saying that we are to confess and repent of sins that the Holy Spirit convicts us of. We discussed that aspect already, several times.

And if we don't we are practicing sin.

[John317]

Originally Posted By: John317

It goes without saying that we are to confess and repent of sins that the Holy Spirit convicts us of. We discussed that aspect already, several times.

Quote:

And if we don't we are practicing sin. [/quote']

Yes, if we are convicted that something is sin and we keep on committing that sin despite our conviction, and do not confess it and repent of it, then we are practicing sin.

I think you will agree that every human who ever lived, apart from Jesus Christ, fell and falls short of God's glory. In your judgment, does that mean everyone has committed sin every moment of their lives?

[John317]

Originally Posted By: John317

Give me the title and page number of the book it is found in, so I can discuss it with you. Remember that I don't have the Ellen White CD or the Review and Herald. [/quote']

-PC- RH

-PT- Advent Review and Sabbath Herald

-DT- 5/7/1901

-AT- The Great Standard of Righteousness

-PR- 09

Complete obedience is the only condition that meets the requirement of the law. "God is not a man, that He should lie." God's law is the rule of His government. He says, "This do, and thou shalt live." But to the disobedient He says, "Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things written in the book of the law to do them." "The soul that sinneth, it shall die." God has given the promise that those who obey His law will be rewarded, not only in the present life, but in the life to come. He declares just as decidedly that those who do not obey His requirements shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on them. By lips that never lie the obedient are blessed, and the disobedient are pronounced guilty.

If you think I am lying get a friend somewhere to look it up. Now, what do you do with the terms of the OC - i.e., "obey and live, disobey and die"

I do not think you are lying. All I am asking is for a reference to a book and page number so I can see it for myself and read it in context. What is PC? What is PT? What is DT? What is AT? What is PR? Can you spell the words out?

I know you must realize how to give correct references, such as Desire of Ages, p. 29. Or Messages To Young People, p. 58. PT-Adventist Review and Sabbath Herald doesn't help anyone look up a quote. Neither does AT- The Great Standard of Righteousness. If you can give me the year and date of the quote as it occurs in the Advent Review and Sabbath Herald, I can look it up, but it is impossible for me to do it without the information.

[Robert]

This is the whole thing:

-PC- RH

-PT- Advent Review and Sabbath Herald

-DT- 05-07-01

-AT- The Great Standard of Righteousness

-PR- 02

Christ is our example in all things. He has magnified the law and made it honorable. By His unwavering obedience He testified to the truth that God's law is the standard of righteousness for all men. God requires of man nothing that is impossible for him to do. He "so loved the world, that He

gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life." Possessing our nature, though unstained by sin, and tempted in all points like as we are, Christ kept the law, proving beyond controversy that man also can keep it.

The fiat has gone forth, "The wages of sin is death." The sinner must feel his guiltiness, else he will never repent. He has broken the law, and in so doing has placed himself under its condemnation. The law has no power to pardon the transgressor, but it points him to Christ Jesus, who says to him, I will take your sin and bear it myself, if you will accept me as your substitute and surety. Return to your allegiance, and I will impute to you my righteousness. You will be made complete in me.

Sin is the transgression of the law. God declares, "Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit." Notwithstanding all the profession of lip and voice, if the

character is not in harmony with the law of God, those making profession of godliness bear evil fruit.

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven,"--the will made known in the Ten Commandments, given in Eden when the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy, and

spoken with an audible voice from Sinai. "Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." Many mighty works are done under the inspiration of Satan, and these works will be more and more apparent in the last days.

"Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock; and the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a

foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: and the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it."

The mischief done by the professed believers in God who are not doers of the Word, can not be estimated. Their lawless, unholy principles corrupt many, leading them away from the path of obedience.

A life of conformity to the Christ-life can not be a life of

disobedience to God's commands. The lawyer who questioned Christ concerning the law, in answering his own question, said, "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbor as thyself." "Thou hast answered right,"

Christ said; "this do, and thou shalt live." Sin can not reign in the life of the one who loves God supremely. Obedience to God is the fruit borne by love. Christ is not at war with Christ, and love to our neighbor prevents us from

working ill to him. "The fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace." The law of God lays its claim upon the whole man. There is no period of time when the law does not make this demand upon every son and daughter of Adam.

Complete obedience is the only condition that meets the requirement of the law. "God is not a man, that He should lie." God's law is the rule of His government. He says, "This do, and thou shalt live." But to the disobedient He says, "Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things

written in the book of the law to do them." "The soul that sinneth, it shall die." God has given the promise that those who obey His law will be rewarded, not only in the present life, but in the life to come. He declares just as decidedly that those who do not obey His requirements shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on them. By lips that never lie the obedient are blessed, and the disobedient are pronounced guilty.

There are only two classes in the world to-day, and only two classes will be recognized in the Judgment,--those who violate God's law, and those who keep His law. Two great opposing powers are revealed in the last great battle. On one side stands the Creator of heaven and earth. All on His side

bear His signet. They are obedient to His commands. On the other side stands the Prince of darkness, with those who have chosen apostasy and rebellion.

When the judgment shall sit, and every one shall be judged by the things written in the books, the authority of God's law will be looked upon in a light altogether different from that in which it is now regarded by the Christian world. Satan has blinded their eyes and confused their understanding, as he blinded and confused Adam and Eve, and led them into

transgression. The law of Jehovah is great, even as its Author is great. In the Judgment it will be recognized as holy, just, and good in all its requirements. Those who transgress this law will find that they have a serious account to settle with God; for His claims are decisive.

Christ has borne our sins in His own body, and those who accept Him as a personal Saviour are free from the penalty of the law. Jesus has been made the propitiation for our sin, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. "Hereby we do know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. He that saith, I know Him, and keepeth not His commandments, is

a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoso keepeth His word, in him verily is the love of God perfected. Hereby know we that we are in Him. He that saith he abideth in Him, ought himself also so to walk, even as He walked."

To the obedient child of God the commandments are a delight. David declares, "Thy testimonies have I taken as an heritage forever: for they are the rejoicing of my heart. I have inclined my heart to perform thy statutes alway, even unto the end. I hate vain thoughts: but thy law do I love. Thou art my hiding place and my shield: I hope in thy word. Depart from me, ye evil-doers: for I will keep the commandments of my God. . . . I am thy servant; give me understanding, that I may know thy testimonies."

Did the contempt shown to the law of God extinguish David's loyalty? Hear his words. He calls upon God to interfere and vindicate His honor, to show that there is a God, that there are limits to His forbearance. "It is time for thee, Lord, to work," he says, "for they have made void thy law."

David saw the divine precepts thrown aside, and obstinacy and rebellion increasing. But he was not swept away by the prevalence of apostasy. The scorn and contempt cast upon the law did not lead him to refrain from vindicating the law. On the contrary, his reverence for the law of Jehovah increased as he saw the disregard and contempt shown for it by others. "They

have made void thy law," he exclaims. "Therefore I love thy commandments above gold; yea, above fine gold. Therefore I esteem all thy precepts concerning all things to be right; and I hate every false way."

As man studies and contemplates the precious statutes of the Most High, as he meditates upon them, and realizes their value, he exclaims: "Thy testimonies are wonderful: therefore doth my soul keep them. The entrance of thy words giveth light; it giveth understanding unto the simple. . . . Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them."

[Robert]

This is the whole thing:

-PC- RH

-PT- Advent Review and Sabbath Herald

-DT- 05-07-01

-AT- The Great Standard of Righteousness

-PR- 02

Why does Ellen White mix Old Covenant language (as seen in the above) when she clearly links the OC to obey and live, disobey and die?

" The terms of the "old covenant" were, Obey and live: "If a man do, he shall even live in them" (Ezekiel 20:11; Leviticus 18:5);but "cursed be he that confirmeth not all the words of this law to do them." Deuteronomy 27:26. "

[Robert]

Quote:

The lawyer who questioned Christ concerning the law, in answering his own question, said, "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbor as thyself." "Thou hast answered right," Christ said; "this do, and thou shalt live." [OC language] Sin can not reign in the life of the one who loves God supremely….The law of God lays its claim upon the whole man. There is no period of time when the law does not make this demand upon every son and daughter of Adam.

This is why I can't fully accept EGW as a prophet. Now she does say that she is not infallible....Why then do you John place her in such a position of great authority? Clearly either she understood what she was writing or she was ignorant. I assume the latter.