Moderators Kevin H Posted June 6, 2008 Moderators Share Posted June 6, 2008 Robert, may I recommend that you stick your finger over that sentence you find offending and re-read my post. Heresy is using part of the truth as a reason to reject the rest of the truth. In todays theological world those who accept vicarious atonement has part of the truth, but since the 1200s it's been mixed with so much tradition that it has become a horrible quagmar that distorts what the Bible teaches. Those who oppose the vicarious atoment sees the truth about the horrors of this quagmar, but they end up with a few extra parts of the Bible that they have laying around. Your logic that you are trying to convince me of applys to the idead developed in the 1200s that, but if you can free it from the dark ages superstition it is not as bad as you think it is and we are a lot closer than you think we are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest truthseeker007 Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 I have a theory about Ellen White, it is just a theory. Ellen was hit by a rock, this caused her brain to disfunction, just like when somebody uses drugs or medicines. satan knows how the brain works and was able to work through her. satan knew that there was going to be a people that was going to interpret the bible biblically. Unless he did something about it, the church would posess all the biblical truths. Maybe he worked through ellen white in order to spread false doctrines among God s true church. It s just a stupid theory but in my search for truth i have to keep all options open. Btw doesn t the bible say that the holy spirit is the seal of God? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted June 6, 2008 Moderators Share Posted June 6, 2008 I have a theory about Ellen White, it is just a theory. ... Maybe he [satan] worked through ellen white in order to spread false doctrines among God s true church. It s just a stupid theory but in my search for truth i have to keep all options open. Have you ever read the biography of Ellen White written by Arthur White? How about the biography written by Herbert Douglass? I believe that if we really study the life and writings of Ellen White, we won't conclude that Ellen White was used of Satan, any more than we can say that Saint Paul or Peter, or any other true prophets, were used of the devil. (This is not, of course, a denial that prophets, too, are fallible, sinful people.) A major aspect of the unpardonable sin is attributing to the devil the work of the Holy Spirit. If God sends us a message and we say it is of the devil, there is not much more that God can do to communicate with us. When we do that, the Bible says God allows us to believe a lie because we refuse to love the truth. Study closely 1 SM 24-48. Quote: Btw doesn t the bible say that the holy spirit is the seal of God? We are sealed with the Holy Spirit (Eph. 1:13). Check out the use of seal and sealing in Rev. 7: 2-4; 14:1 and Ezekiel 9:1-6. In 6 BC 1055 and 3 T 267, Ellen White also teaches that we are sealed with the Holy Spirit-- that is, if we allow Him to and do not resist. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kountzer Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 I have a theory about Ellen White, it is just a theory. Ellen was hit by a rock, this caused her brain to disfunction, just like when somebody uses drugs or medicines. satan knows how the brain works and was able to work through her. satan knew that there was going to be a people that was going to interpret the bible biblically. Unless he did something about it, the church would posess all the biblical truths. Maybe he worked through ellen white in order to spread false doctrines among God s true church. It s just a stupid theory but in my search for truth i have to keep all options open. Btw doesn t the bible say that the holy spirit is the seal of God? The essence of msg board brain sewage. Quote I prayed for twenty years but received no answer until I prayed with my legs. Frederick Douglass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 Quote: The essence of msg board brain sewage I for one find this offensive. This is the reason people find they have to leave Club Adventist. Surely we can be more respectful of others thoughts and allow for free expression here. Let's make CA a more safe place to express our thoughts and ideas without calling them "brain sewage". Truthseeker .... I am sorry you had to experience this. I hope you will continue to come here and share your concerns, your trials, your conflicts, and your ideas. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest truthseeker007 Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 Thanks Redwood for your love and patience. I will never give up searching for truth. Some people think it is very dumb to consider the thought that Ellen was a false prophet, but i can tell you all with a clear concious that i ve thought things trough. I think Ellen was a true prophet but i have serious doubts, something which is normal for every rational being that is searching for truth. Kountzer i also think your judgement about me is very offensive. I will never ever enter a denomation because of fear, custom etc. All i care about is the truth. For sure, if you are the fruits of Ellen White her writings, then i perceive hate rather than love. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kountzer Posted June 7, 2008 Share Posted June 7, 2008 I find a lot of the [censored] you post offensive also. Quote I prayed for twenty years but received no answer until I prayed with my legs. Frederick Douglass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightingale Posted June 7, 2008 Share Posted June 7, 2008 I find it difficult to believe that anyone who prayerfully reads with an open mind the books, "Steps to Christ", "Desire of Ages", "Prophets and Kings," or the wonderful book "Education" can think they could come from anywhere but the mind of God. The proof is in the pudding. I am so thankful for this gift to His church. Certainly the time is coming soon when all will know whether she was a true prophet or not. I'm afraid for many that time will be to late to take advantage of the blessing these writings are to those who read them along with the Bible. Quote John 3: 16: "For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest truthseeker007 Posted June 7, 2008 Share Posted June 7, 2008 "I find a lot of the [censored] you post offensive also." Why, in my search for truth, should i care about feelings? If i would do that it would take me hundreds of years to convince jehova s witnesses, mormons etc. that their religion is not from God. I haven t red the books of Ellen White yet because i know that once i read them, i become hooked. If Ellen is a true prophet i have overestimated the intelligence of the devil. Then the devil is not that intelligent at all, he is just a boso trying to act like he is very clever. If however Ellen is the ultimate deception, then i think the devil is quite intelligent. Again, everything the SDA church teaches seems convincing. However, in practice, when i pray for my right ear, for my health, for my education, for visions, none of my prayers are being answered. You should expect that in the true church of God, God would not hold back his blessings for those who sincerely are looking for a better way to live and help others... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted June 7, 2008 Moderators Share Posted June 7, 2008 ".... I haven't red the books of Ellen White yet because i know that once i read them, i become hooked. But by refusing to study the books of Ellen White, you put yourself in a position of being without any personal knowledge of the subject under discussion. It would be like my going onto a thread where the discussion is on a topic about which I am deliberately ignorant. I don't think people become "hooked" just because they read a book, whether it is a book in the Bible or whether it is one which Ellen White wrote. I've read a lot of books by Muslims, Mormons and by "Jehovah's Witnesses," but that doesn't mean I believe them. So I don't think you have any good reason to fear that you will be "hooked" by simply reading her. But if you don't read and study her yourself, you will always be dependent on other's people's study of her, and that would be like depending on someone else to tell you what an apple tastes like rather than knowing it by tasting it yourself. In the case of Ellen White, I would encourage you to bite into her books and get a taste of them for yourself. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted June 7, 2008 Moderators Share Posted June 7, 2008 ... I will never give up searching for truth. Some people think it is very dumb to consider the thought that Ellen was a false prophet, but i can tell you all with a clear concious that i ve thought things trough. I think Ellen was a true prophet but i have serious doubts, something which is normal for every rational being that is searching for truth.... I think it is healthy and normal for everyone at some point in his life to seriously ask whether the Bible is true or whether Ellen White was a true prophet. Those questions need to be asked and the subject studied thoroughly. However, the only way it can be done is by personally, individually, and prayerfully studying the Bible and Ellen White's books for ourselves. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted June 7, 2008 Share Posted June 7, 2008 Originally Posted By: Neil D The problem isn't about ME...It's about the Law, and it demands that payment be made. Oh yes it is! You are the sinner, not Christ. Any law, especially God's law, can't condemn an innocent person. Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve.  George Bernard Shaw  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Posted June 7, 2008 Share Posted June 7, 2008 My experience is this. Most of the Adventists I have spoken with who are not EGW-friendly, have never read her stuff. If being hit on the mouth gives you spiritual thoughts that are breath taking, some one please throw a stone at me. The proof is in the pudding. Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted June 7, 2008 Share Posted June 7, 2008 My experience is this. If being hit on the mouth gives you spiritual thoughts that are breath taking, some one please throw a stone at me. The proof is in the pudding. Please Stan, please don't post masochistic tendancys here....I have an adversion to pain.... Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve.  George Bernard Shaw  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted June 7, 2008 Share Posted June 7, 2008 It [the law] demands a life for payment of that broken law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted June 7, 2008 Share Posted June 7, 2008 "I find a lot of the [censored] you post offensive also." Why, in my search for truth, should i care about feelings? If i would do that it would take me hundreds of years to convince jehova s witnesses, mormons etc. that their religion is not from God. I haven t red the books of Ellen White yet because i know that once i read them, i become hooked. If Ellen is a true prophet i have overestimated the intelligence of the devil. Then the devil is not that intelligent at all, he is just a boso trying to act like he is very clever. If however Ellen is the ultimate deception, then i think the devil is quite intelligent. Again, everything the SDA church teaches seems convincing. However, in practice, when i pray for my right ear, for my health, for my education, for visions, none of my prayers are being answered. You should expect that in the true church of God, God would not hold back his blessings for those who sincerely are looking for a better way to live and help others... Truth Seeker 007 ... In addition to reading her red books. (and I do like that color) I found it helpful to tour her homes at St.Helens (Elmshaven) and also at Battle Creek. Then I went to her gravesite there also. The simplicity of her life/death and possessions was inspiring. Of course some of that was the times that she lived in. But I also have struggled with the doubts that you speak of. No doubt she was an inspired woman. Was she a prophet? I can't be 100% certain. And I can't be certain of which messages were from God IF she was a prophet. But, my position is that she was a prophet. And it is my task to compare her words to scripture to determine which are from God and which are from a fallible human being. A big task. But if we stick to the Bible and simply refuse to accept material that is 'extra-Biblical' as "Gospel" .... then we are on good solid ground. Ground of which she encouraged us to be on. Red Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rush4hire Posted June 7, 2008 Author Share Posted June 7, 2008 This thread is shot. It's all cluttered up with tons of debate that has nothing to do with the topic. Quote I cant make a sig with 30 chrs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted June 7, 2008 Share Posted June 7, 2008 Quote: No, the law demands your death! Anything outside this truth is a lie. Ok, let's say you are correct. It demands my life. Originally Posted By: Neil A redeemer is needed, if **I** want to continue to live. Jesus has done so, and is known as The Redeemer. No, you must die. And your corporate life did come to and end "in Christ" because the humanity He assumed was our humanity. It is a shared humanity because we all come from one man, Adam. Now, you are saying that the Law is requiring TWO deaths... Sorry, but the sanctuary doesn't show that. It shows only ONE death that the sinner is involved in. Try again. Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve.  George Bernard Shaw  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted June 7, 2008 Share Posted June 7, 2008 Sorry, but the sanctuary doesn't show that. It shows only ONE death that the sinner is involved in. Try again. You're stuck with the symbolic and not the reality. Christ is the reality! You died "in Him" (see Romans 6:6;7:4) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted June 7, 2008 Share Posted June 7, 2008 Sorry, but the sanctuary doesn't show that. It shows only ONE death that the sinner is involved in. As to that statement, Neil, you are in exact agreement with the Word. Since the sanctuary is a shadow of things to come, it would be in agreement with the Word. "...man is destined to die once..." Hebrews 9:27 NIV This, of course, is a promise given to all men while only those who accept the Word will actually receive the promise. Regards! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted June 7, 2008 Share Posted June 7, 2008 "...man is destined to die once..." No...there's a second death.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted June 7, 2008 Share Posted June 7, 2008 [ In the case of Ellen White, I would encourage you to bite into her books and get a taste of them for yourself. OTOH, if one only needs one instance of seeming disagreement to persuade, a person can easily give up a bundle of truth for a flyspeck of misunderstanding. One illustrious person by the name of Oprah, said she gave up on the Word because of the Scripture text where God said He was a jealous God. Drawing conclusions based upon our human reasoning, that appears to disagree with the Word, reveals the necessity to ask help from the Spirit of God before drawing any hard and fast conclusions, and even the more so when confronted by a person who appears to be heaven sent. "But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come." John 16:13 NIV "One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind."Romans 14:5 NIV Just because we are convinced of something in disagreement with the Word, does not make what we believe true, but it will clarify upon further evidence that it wasn't another besides ourselves, leading us astray. Then we can rightfully accept the gift of repentance without being humiliated by another for being so gullible. "God exalted him to his own right hand as Prince and Savior that he might give repentance and forgiveness of sins to Israel." Acts 5:31 NIV Regards! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 Originally Posted By: LifeHiscost "...man is destined to die once..." (The gospel according to Robert.) No...there's a second death.... Parenthesis mine LHC The gospel according to the Holy Word. "Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him." Heb 9:27,28 NIV Regards! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert hickman Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 Isn't there a second death when the hell fire comes down from heaven and the wicked are burned up in order to eliminate sin? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest truthseeker007 Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 Hmmm Golden cards??talkin about brain sewage; Some ardent SDA members seem to imply that EGW never went beyond Scripture with her visions, but merely confirmed the correct interpretation. This could not be further from the truth. The follow EGW vision mentions golden pass cards that angels need, yet it is impossible for this to be verified with Scripture: Then my attending angel directed me to the city again, where I saw four angels winging their way to the gate of the city. They were just presenting the golden card to the angel at the gate when I saw another angel flying swiftly from the direction of the most excellent glory, and crying with a loud voice to the other angels, and waving something up and down in his hand (Early Writings, 37). EGW mentions the same elsewhere: All the angels that are commissioned to visit earth hold a golden card, which they present to the angels at the gates of the city as they pass in and out (Early Writings, p. 39). Friend, there is not the slightest hint of angelic golden cards in Scripture. No Seventh-day Adventist can supply Scriptural support for such. Therefore, members of the SDA church go beyond the Bible for their beliefs and this is because of the writings of Ellen G. White, a Bible-defined false prophetess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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