Stan Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 Don't Mormons do something similar as well" Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
there buster Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 Quote: Don't Mormons do something similar as well" Jehovah's Witnesses, actually. I, for one, do not care about what Obama does with his hands or what pins he wears. What he says about his country makes his attitudes clear. Quote “the slovenliness of our language makes it easier to have foolish thoughts.” George Orwell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 Mormans have their hands 'on their bosom" for something.. i was not talking about people not putting their hands on the chest... Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted September 7, 2008 Author Moderators Share Posted September 7, 2008 Quote: Not at all. Let me know what you believe is inaccurate or untrue in the post about Obama. I find spurious mud slinging 'boring'! Are you talking about the fact that Obama has campaigned for socialists? Explain why that is spurious and "mud slinging". I think it's important for Americans to know these things about people who may be in the White House soon. Has there ever been an American president, or Republican or Democratic candidate, who has ever campaigned for a socialist candidate before? Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted September 7, 2008 Author Moderators Share Posted September 7, 2008 "Jehovah's Witnesses" refuse to pledge allegiance so they don't put their hands over their hearts when they hear the pledge. I assume this is what you mean. They believe that swearing allegiance to the flag is like worship. They say their only allegiance is to Jehovah. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 What i was asking is why people put their hand there? Does any other country have that as part of their culture? Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted September 7, 2008 Author Moderators Share Posted September 7, 2008 Mormans have their hands 'on their bosom" for something.. i was not talking about people not putting their hands on the chest... Mormons speak of the "burning of the bosom" as the place where they feel that the Holy Spirit places a burning of conviction that the Book of Mormon is inspired. They may touch their "bosom" in showing where they felt this burning sensation. It means a lot to them. It is a necessary testimony. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted September 7, 2008 Author Moderators Share Posted September 7, 2008 My wife, who is from Mexico, just informed me that the people of Mexico put their hands over their chest but with an open hand and their thumb touching the area near the heart. It's necessary for the men to remove their hats when singing the national anthem or repeating the pledge. I'm not really sure about other countries or cultures. Americans, except for Jehovah's Witnesses, have been doing it since they were very young. I'll look into and post about it later. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted September 7, 2008 Author Moderators Share Posted September 7, 2008 Originally Posted By: John317 Watch the video and tell me what you think: All I can go by is what Obama himself said, and that was that he was taught that you put your hand over your heart for the Pledge of Allegiance. That is what I was taught, as well, and I was surprised to see a big deal made out of him not doing it for the National Anthem. I knew you're supposed to stand for the National Anthem, but I never knew you were supposed to put your hand over your heart. I've seen people do it, but not overwhelmingly. Anyway, he stood respectfully and clapped at the end. What's the big deal? As far as I know, he always puts his hand over his heart for the Pledge. It's a total non-issue, just a grasp for something to criticize. I have to believe that Senator Obama knows the United States Code, since he was president of the Yale Law Review and is obviously a very intelligent lawyer and law-maker in the US legislature. I just think it is interesting that this would happen. I doubt we've ever had a Presidential candidate who did this before. Is it important? It may not be. I hope it's totally meaningless. THE UNITED STATES CODE TITLE 36 CHAPTER 10 The "FLAG CODE" §170. National anthem; Star-Spangled Banner The composition consisting of the words and music known as The Star-Spangled Banner is designated the national anthem of the United States of America. §171. Conduct during playing During rendition of the national anthem when the flag is displayed, all present except those in uniform should stand at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart. Men not in uniform should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart. Persons in uniform should render the military salute at the first note of the anthem and retain this position until the last note. When the flag is not displayed, those present should face toward the music and act in the same manner they would if the flag were displayed there. §172. Pledge of allegiance to the flag; manner of delivery The Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag, 'I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.', should be rendered by standing at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart. When not in uniform men should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart. Persons in uniform should remain silent, face the flag, and render the military salute. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted September 7, 2008 Author Moderators Share Posted September 7, 2008 Election 2008 Latest Polls President Saturday, September 06 Race Poll Results Spread National Gallup Tracking Obama 47, McCain 45 Obama +2 National Rasmussen Tracking Obama 49, McCain 46 Obama +3 Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 Thanks John317. It is surprising that Senator Obama would not know the code of which we as children were taught at a young age. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. Allan Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 Are you talking about the fact that Obama has campaigned for socialists? I find such broad unqualified accusations offensive. /dAb Quote dAb O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 Originally Posted By: John317 Are you talking about the fact that Obama has campaigned for socialists? I find such broad unqualified accusations offensive. /dAb Okay ... take it to the Abuse Forum .... Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted September 7, 2008 Author Moderators Share Posted September 7, 2008 Originally Posted By: John317 Are you talking about the fact that Obama has campaigned for socialists? I find such broad unqualified accusations offensive. /dAb Nothing broad about it. He has campaigned for an American socialist congressman and for a socialist leader in Kenya. These are undisputed facts. Could you please explain why it is offensive? Is it false? Do Americans have a right to know this and discuss it? What is "offensive" by the simple statement of fact? Or have we come to the point where it is offensive to state facts of concern to Americans during an election? Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted September 7, 2008 Author Moderators Share Posted September 7, 2008 Yes, I agree. But the thing is he had all those other candidates there who all had their hands over their hearts. Did he wonder, What are these people doing? How can he plead ignorance with a straight face? I'll accept his word for it but it can't help but make me wonder what is with this guy. Not only was he shocked by what 2 long-time friends of his did, but he calls himself boneheaded; he admits making a big mistake to say what he did about abortion; and he claims that as a lawyer he had no idea that people put their hands over their hearts, even though it's what everyone else was doing right before his very eyes. Anyone have answers? Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 I think his brain works differently than the rest of ours. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted September 7, 2008 Author Moderators Share Posted September 7, 2008 Originally Posted By: John317 Are you talking about the fact that Obama has campaigned for socialists? I find such broad unqualified accusations offensive. /dAb OK, I'll take that into serious consideration, Neil. But how would you have me express this? Americans have a right to consider these facts. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolaa Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 THE UNITED STATES CODE TITLE 36 CHAPTER 10 The "FLAG CODE" §170. National anthem; Star-Spangled Banner The composition consisting of the words and music known as The Star-Spangled Banner is designated the national anthem of the United States of America. §171. Conduct during playing During rendition of the national anthem when the flag is displayed, all present except those in uniform should stand at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart. Men not in uniform should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart. Persons in uniform should render the military salute at the first note of the anthem and retain this position until the last note. When the flag is not displayed, those present should face toward the music and act in the same manner they would if the flag were displayed there. There were others present who, it appears, did not face the flag, yet nothing was said about them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted September 7, 2008 Author Moderators Share Posted September 7, 2008 Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted September 7, 2008 Author Moderators Share Posted September 7, 2008 OK, after reviewing the video, it appears that everyone but Obama had his/her hand over his heart. They all looked at and faced the flag, but it is not necessary to "stare" at the flag. Everyone looked at the flag or in its direction anyway. I think one those men are Joe Biden, and he had his hand over his heart and was facing the flag. In any case, I wouldn't even mention this except that I doubt it's ever happened before with a candidate for the presidency or with an American president. (Can anyone imagine President Kennedy doing this or Truman or LBJ?) There's also the fact that an intelligent and experienced attorney claims that he didn't put his hand over his heart because he didn't understand that it was expected when everyone else knew it and all he had to do was look at what the other big people were doing. I think he would just be better off to excuse himself by admitting (again) that he is "bone-headed." I could accept that (not that I want someone not thinking clearly in the White House, having experienced that before!), but as it is, it looks like he's being disingenuous to try to make people think he didn't know any better. But I will not write about this any more, I promise (whew!)-- unless, that is, someone says Obama sincerely did not realize Americans put their hands over their hearts. OK, maybe he didn't but shouldn't he have known? End! Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
there buster Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 Quote: There were others present who, it appears, did not face the flag, yet nothing was said about them. HOw many of those 'others' are running to lead the country of which the flag is a symbol? Might explain why it got mentioned. As far as this particular issue, it is a small thing. If it were the only indicator of Obama's attitudes and beliefs, it would be nothing. As one of many indicators, it gains significance. Quote “the slovenliness of our language makes it easier to have foolish thoughts.” George Orwell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 You are SO right John317. You have hit the nail on the head. Edit: And you too IchABOD. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. Allan Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 Quote: Or have we come to the point where it is offensive to state facts of concern to Americans during an election? statements alone are not enough to convince anyone of facts. Quote dAb O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. Allan Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 also the term socialist is very broad and can be use against British and West German politicians. socialist by itself is a term no more derogatory than the term 'liberal' yet some use them that way. /dAb Quote dAb O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted September 7, 2008 Author Moderators Share Posted September 7, 2008 ... As far as this particular issue, it is a small thing. If it were the only indicator of Obama's attitudes and beliefs, it would be nothing. As one of many indicators, it gains significance. So right! 1 is nothing by itself but when you start adding 1+ 1+ 1+ 1+ 1+ 1, you begin to see something of a pattern that leads to a much bigger number. But you have to be able to face the numbers and add them together. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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