D. Allan Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 Quote: OK, after reviewing the video, it appears that everyone but Obama had his/her hand over his heart. They all looked at and faced the flag, but it is not necessary to "stare" at the flag. Everyone looked at the flag or in its direction anyway. I think one those men are Joe Biden, and he had his hand over his heart and was facing the flag. this whole thing about your 'hand over your heart' seems so childish. /dAb Quote dAb O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted September 7, 2008 Author Moderators Share Posted September 7, 2008 also the term socialist is very broad and can be use against British and West German politicians. socialist by itself is a term no more derogatory than the term 'liberal' yet some use them that way. /dAb I understand that, but this is the United States, not England or Germany. We have to consider American political history and the way Americans think, not how the people of England or Germany think. By the way-- just to show the difference-- can you name any other American president or candidate of either the the Republican or Democratic party who has campaigned for a socialist/Marxist candidate anywhere? Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted September 7, 2008 Author Moderators Share Posted September 7, 2008 Quote: OK, after reviewing the video, it appears that everyone but Obama had his/her hand over his heart. They all looked at and faced the flag, but it is not necessary to "stare" at the flag. Everyone looked at the flag or in its direction anyway. I think one those men are Joe Biden, and he had his hand over his heart and was facing the flag. this whole thing about your 'hand over your heart' seems so childish. /dAb I hear you, but tell that to the other candidates who had their hand over their heart. It may seem childish, but you have to admit it has meaning and significance. At least to people who have fought and shed their blood for this country or been tortured for it. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. Allan Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 Quote: I understand that, but this is the United States, not England or Germany. We have to consider American political history and the way Americans think, not how the people of England or Germany think. people is people is people and allowed to think anywhere (difficult to control others' thoughts) . /dAb Quote dAb O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. Allan Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 Quote: At least to people who have fought and shed their blood for this country or been tortured for it. people who have gone thru such hell for our country are not likely to insist that grown men stand there like little kids with their hands over their hearts. it's demeaning and belitting to insist upon such kindergaarten exercises. /dAb Quote dAb O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted September 7, 2008 Administrators Share Posted September 7, 2008 ...this whole thing about your 'hand over your heart' seems so childish. I must agree. It is rather like the silly debate in some churches about whether one must kneel for prayer, stand, bow the head, raise the hands, eyes open, eyes closed or whatever. It is a matter of attitude appropriate for the moment. Ones' body posture hand or foot position are not real solid indicators of the attitude. I think the critics are scraping the bottom of the barrel. But if they insist on sinking to this level then they ought not to complain about critics from the other side pointing fingers about the unwed daughter, etc. Much ado about nothing... Tom Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 Originally Posted By: D. Allan ...this whole thing about your 'hand over your heart' seems so childish. I must agree. It is rather like the silly debate in some churches about whether one must kneel for prayer, stand, bow the head, raise the hands, eyes open, eyes closed or whatever. It is a matter of attitude appropriate for the moment. Ones' body posture hand or foot position are not real solid indicators of the attitude. I think the critics are scraping the bottom of the barrel. But if they insist on sinking to this level then they ought not to complain about critics from the other side pointing fingers about the unwed daughter, etc. Much ado about nothing... Tom Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolaa Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 OK, after reviewing the video, it appears that everyone but Obama had his/her hand over his heart. They all looked at and faced the flag, but it is not necessary to "stare" at the flag. Everyone looked at the flag or in its direction anyway. I think one those men are Joe Biden, and he had his hand over his heart and was facing the flag. None of the people in the photo you posted were looking at the flag. One of them was Hillary Clinton. If you go to snopes and look at the entire photo, you will see that there were other people on the platform who had turned around to look at the flag. There is speculation that perhaps there was a flag off to the side somewhere that the otheres were all looking at - no one really knows. Not that I think any of this is a big deal, but as long as we're discussing minutia and splitting hairs..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolaa Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 By the way, Neil-- just to show the difference-- can you name any other American president or candidate of either the the Republican or Democratic party who has campaigned for a socialist/Marxist candidate anywhere? Does anyone know who was running against this socialist candidate that Obama was endorsing? Maybe he was the lesser of two evils. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted September 7, 2008 Author Moderators Share Posted September 7, 2008 Yes, I agree with you. Thanks for that. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolaa Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 Tom. You may be opening up a can of worms here. To those who strictly follow Ellen White ... the posture IS important. Mrs. White stated that it was important. And that standing was not allowed but the only posture allowed was kneeling: Quote: "I have received letters questioning me in regard to the proper attitude to be taken by a person offering prayer to the Sovereign of the universe. Where have our brethren obtained the idea that they should stand upon their feet when praying to God? One who has been educated for about five years in Battle Creek was asked to lead in prayer before Sister White should speak to the people. But as I beheld him standing upright upon his feet while his lips were about to open in prayer to God, my soul was stirred within me to give him an open rebuke. Calling him by name, I said, "Get down upon your knees." This is the proper position always." 2SM 311 How rude! It sounds like EGW would be widely accepted by the Muslims, because they believe prayer posture is immensely important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 Originally Posted By: John317 By the way, Neil-- just to show the difference-- can you name any other American president or candidate of either the the Republican or Democratic party who has campaigned for a socialist/Marxist candidate anywhere? Does anyone know who was running against this socialist candidate that Obama was endorsing? Maybe he was the lesser of two evils. I dunno. Carolaa ... Things always sound much more sensational before you come into the picture. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolaa Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 It wouldn't be the first time I've been accused of being a wet blanket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 Originally Posted By: ichabod ... As far as this particular issue, it is a small thing. If it were the only indicator of Obama's attitudes and beliefs, it would be nothing. As one of many indicators, it gains significance. So right! 1 is nothing by itself but when you start adding 1+ 1+ 1+ 1+ 1+ 1, you begin to see something of a pattern that leads to a much bigger number. But you have to be able to face the numbers and add them together. Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve.  George Bernard Shaw  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted September 8, 2008 Author Moderators Share Posted September 8, 2008 ....The pattern is....I wasn't in that part of the conversation....You, sir john are obsessed with ME......Why? I have no idea...but you keep addressing your posts to me....especially when I am not in the conversation.... Wow-- all that because I typed in the wrong name. Well, I am not at all obsessed with you, Neil, although the truth is I think you're an awfully nice guy. We'd really get along great, and have wonderful arguments about politics, I'm sure. I'm not out to besmear Obama. I am just out to find out the truth about him. Let me know any time you believe that I am not telling the truth about him. It seems to me, though, that any time anyone criticizes Obama about something, he is accused of either "besmearing" or unfairly attacking or whatever. Obama doesn't need protection. This is the big leagues. He needs to get used to the fact that he will be looked at carefully and that he can't control everything people might ask or say. I firmly believe that for him to get to the White House and occupy the most powerful position, he needs to be put under the microscope. That is the nature of the job. I say that about all of them, even Mrs. Palin. Do you honestly think that after only about 135 days in the Senate, Obama ought to have thought that he was ready to fill the shoes of people like FDR, Eisenhower, Truman, Kennedy, Nixon, Reagan, Lincoln, Washington, etc.? I don't. Those 135 days didn't give him any experience to prepare him for the office. Even his congressional friends can't think of any reason why we should vote for Obama to be the next President. What did he accomplish in the Senate? Let's think about these things in an unemotional and objective way if that is possible, shall we? Is it Obama's policies you like so much or what? Why do you think he should be the next president? Compare both men and also both vice presidential candidates. Would you really like Joe Biden as President? Why? Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted September 8, 2008 Moderators Share Posted September 8, 2008 Much ado about nothing... Tom Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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