How Will Ellen White Vote?

[CGMedley]

How do Christians best influence democratic institutions, by casting ballots – or by abstaining in protest? Read Mark Kellner’s thoughtful analysis this week in the Adventist Review. http://www.adventistreview.org/issue.php?issue=2008-1525&page=8

[John317]

Thanks for posting that. Good to know the history of Adventist and Ellen White views of elections and politics.

[aldona]

Spare a thought for those of us who live in places where there is compulsory voting.

aldona

[Nan]

Technically we do not have to vote, Aldona....we just have to have our names crossed off the list

to say we put in an appearance.

[John317]

Did the Australian people vote that law in, which compels people to vote?

In Mexico also, people are compelled to vote.

I am glad we are free to choose to vote or not to vote.

[Woody]

Thanks for posting that. Good to know the history of Adventist and Ellen White views of elections and politics.

John317 ... perhaps you don't know this ... but he is very hard of hearing. You might have to shout it if you want to be heard.

[John317]

Originally Posted By: John317

Thanks for posting that. Good to know the history of Adventist and Ellen White views of elections and politics.

John317 ... perhaps you don't know this ... but he is very hard of hearing. You might have to shout it if you want to be heard.

I'm not very hard of hearing at all if you're talking about me.

But I am sometimes when I have my music up really loud.

[fccool]

I'll give you my honest opinion why I think Christian people should abstain from voting:

1) I've lived through communism, and we've had a similar "democratic" system of the government. But all of us knew that no matter who wins the same views and the same major issues would not disappear. I think that this is the case with Almost any such "democracy" today. USA was not untented to be a democracy... it was untented to be a republic, where people elect the people "who know what's up" to make the voting decision for them. Electoral college meant to be a much safer system in that respect, because the founders knew that the ordinary man will not have enough resources to be thoroughly informed about the candidates. Thus this system was designed to protect against the "uneducated majority mod".

2) We are led to believe that what we have in America today is a democracy and not republic... and I think we have reduced the election process to a democracy by means of two party system. Therefore instead of having a vast representation of perspectives, what we have is a narrow mindedness of the two party system... which essentially end up barking up the wrong tree.

3) It did not matter which political candidate it was in the office... the moral degradation of America occurred when either party was in the office... which leads me to believe that the politicians have little to do with influencing what's going on in the moral sphere of society.

4) By means of 501c(3) the church has been successfully gagged to even discuss the presidential candidates from the pulpit, thus leaving many in ignorance and vote based on the few surface "qualities" of the candidates... and not based on their past actions.

The question is, if either of us as Christians spent a day with a candidate when they are on vocation and we would be a fly on the wall observing their "real selves".... would we want to vote for these people? These are the kind of things that we need to know, and instead what we see is the behavior and image manufactured by their campaign managers and PR people.

So, what we end up seeing is demonising of the opponents and mud slinging, instead of people coming together to genuinely care about solving problems.

America as a country is very sick today, and all these "doctors" propose to do is to give couple pills here, and a couple pills there in order to diminish the symptoms... while the real problems causing the symptoms remain there, growing into cancerous tumors.

Therefore, I believe we should stop looking for the "earthly messiah" and turn the work over to Christ... by letting Him direct us to solve those societal problems. We can be that unelected third party that actually makes a difference.

[John317]

I'll give you my honest opinion why I think Christian people should abstain from voting:

You agree, then, with "Jehovah's Witnesses" on this point. They some good reasons for teaching as they do about voting, etc.

Quote:

1) .... USA was not untented to be a democracy... it was untented to be a republic, where people elect the people "who know what's up" to make the voting decision for them. Electoral college meant to be a much safer system in that respect, because the founders knew that the ordinary man will not have enough resources to be thoroughly informed about the candidates. Thus this system was designed to protect against the "uneducated majority mod".

You are right about America being a democratic Republic. As a nation we knew this from the beginning. At the end of the constitutional convention, someone asked Benjamin Franklin what kind of government the delegates from the different states has give the people, and Franklin replied, "A republic if you can keep it."

You're also right about the Electoral college. The reason for it is more complex. It was put into effect because they understood human nature and did not entirely trust it. So the founders designed the government with many different ways of protecting freedom, such as the separation of powers, the separation of church and state, and the Electoral system, the Bill of Rights, etc. They believed that it was possible for the people to be tricked into electing an evil but popular as person as president who could take us back under British rule. It was made so that if the Electors saw that they needed to stop such a person, there would be a means of doing it between the election and the time the candidate actually takes office.

The Electoral College has other advantages in addition to this. It helps the various areas of the country to be better represented in the election. Without it, it is almost certain that the candidates would only campaign in the highly populated areas of the country.

Quote:

2) We are led to believe that what we have in America today is a democracy and not republic... and I think we have reduced the election process to a democracy by means of two party system. Therefore instead of having a vast representation of perspectives, what we have is a narrow mindedness of the two party system... which essentially end up barking up the wrong tree.

If people believe those things, it is not by the design of the government itself. There is plenty of information available on the subject if people would study and read. They used to teach in history and government classes that we have a republic. I know our educational system today is not doing the best job teaching America's young people about history and government, so many of them are growing up with misunderstandings about their government as well as about history.

The two-party system has served the country well during most of our history. That system has not been imposed from above by the US government but is really an accident of history. (I don't mean there are not causes or reasons for it, but it wasn't determined by those who formed the government.) The government is not designed with the idea or plan that there would be two main political parties. It's simply the way things worked out. Things could have developed differently. It is simply a fact that in this country, unlike in Europe and elsewhere, third parties just have not done very well. The people were given a chance to vote for third parties, such as the Green Party, the Libertarian, the Peace and Freedom, the Socialist, the communists, etc., yet those parties simply haven't yet represented enough people's views for their candidates to be elected in a general election.

[John317]

....3) It did not matter which political candidate it was in the office... the moral degradation of America occurred when either party was in the office... which leads me to believe that the politicians have little to do with influencing what's going on in the moral sphere of society.....

What you say is true, I think, but this should not be a surprise to anyone, that American politicians are not strong moral influences. Our government was never intended to be run by people who would be great leaders in morality. The leadership is representative of the people and the society at large. That leadership cannot be expected to transcend the people who elect them.

The moral and spiritual leadership must come from the churches and from the constituencies. They're the real source of the moral tone of the country.

[skyblue888]

As far as a Christian is concerned, from a strickly biblical point of view, he is an ambassador for Christ, his citizenship being in Heaven. Being a citizen of the heavenly country, he is here in this world to look after the affairs of the heavenly country and not of the affairs of the governments of this world. "Our citizenship is in Heaven." "We are ambassadors for Christ." Phil.3:20; 2 Cor.5:20.

The rise of the beast in the fourth century was a result of professed Christians meddling with the political affairs of the governments of this world. And the image of the beast will be formed in the same way.

For these reasons, I believe Christians are to stay away from politics altogether:

"The Lord would have His people bury political questions. On these themes silence is eloquence. Christ calls upon His followers to come into unity on the pure gospel principles which are plainly revealed in the word of God. We cannot with safety vote for political parties; for we do not know whom we are voting for. We cannot with safety take part in any political scheme. It is a mistake for you to link your interests with any political party, to cast your vote with them or for them. God's children are to separate themselves from politics, from any alliance with unbelievers." Manuscript, June 16,,1899; Gospel Workers, pp.391-95.

sky