Was the Sabbath just for the Jews...?

[Reddogs]

Here is a excellent piece that clearly shows the answer..

"10 Reasons why the Sabbath is not just for Jews.

1) Adam and Eve were not Jewish. "God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it" (Genesis 2:3) before sin entered. "Sanctified" means "to be set apart for holy use." The only ones in the Garden of Eden for whom the Sabbath was “set apart” were Adam and Eve, who weren’t Jewish.

2) "The Sabbath was made for man." Mark 2:27. Jesus said this. It was "made" in the Garden of Eden before it was "written" down on Mount Sinai. The Sabbath was "made" for "man," not just Jews.

3) The other nine commandments are not "just for Jews." God wrote "Ten Commandments" on stone, not just nine (See Deut. 4:12, 13; Ex. 20). Does “Do not commit adultery,”“Do not murder,”“Do not steal,” and “Do not bear false witness” apply "only to Jews"?

4) "The seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God." Exodus 20:10. God calls the Sabbath, "my holy day." Isaiah 58:13. The Bible never calls it "the Sabbath of the Jews." It isn’t their Sabbath, but God's.

5) The Sabbath commandment is for the "stranger" too. The fourth commandment itself says the "stranger" is to rest on the Sabbath. Exodus 20:10.“Strangers” are non-Jews, or Gentiles. Thus the Sabbath applies to them too. Read also Isaiah 56:6.

6) Isaiah said Gentiles should keep the Sabbath. "Also the sons of the stranger ... every one that keeps the Sabbath ... for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people." Isaiah 56:6, 7. Thus the Sabbath is for Gentiles and “all people,” not just for Jews.

7) "All" mankind will keep the Sabbath in the New Earth. In "the new earth ... from one Sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, says the Lord." Isaiah 66:22, 23. Here God says that “all flesh” will be keeping the Sabbath in “the new earth.” If this is the case – and it is – shouldn’t we start now?

8) Gentiles kept the Sabbath in the Book of Acts. "The Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath ... Paul and Barnabas ... persuaded them to continue in the grace of God."' Acts 13:42, 43. Here saved-by-grace Gentiles kept the Sabbath (see also verse 44).

9) "The law" [of Ten Commandments] is for "all the world," not just for Jews. Paul wrote these words. Read Romans 2:17-23; 3:19, 23.

10) Luke was a Gentile who kept the Sabbath. Luke was the only Gentile who wrote any New Testament books (he wrote The Gospel According to St. Luke and The Acts of the Apostles). Luke traveled with Paul and wrote, "On the Sabbath we went out of the city by a river side." Acts 16:13. It was the seventh-day Sabbath, the memorial of the creation (see Ex. 20:11). Both Luke and Paul knew it....excerpts from article by Steve Wohlberg

[phkrause]

excellent post.

pk

[John317]

Those are all good and true points, Reddogs.

Some people have questions about them, but the points stand up well under the toughest cross-examination.

Thanks for posting those.

[Robert]

If only you dudes pushed agape love (a love without self-love) as much as you pushed the Sabbath.

[Woody]

That kind of equality would be good for us. Good Suggestion Rob.

[jasd]

>>"10 Reasons why the Sabbath is not just for Jews.<<

Strawman. There is no distinction made in the above between the COI and the Jews. The ‘Law’ was given at Sinai as articles of a Covenant where no Jew partook. Judahites, yes; however, Jews are first encountered in 2 Kings 16, where it was first disparagingly used as an epithet - by the Northern Kingdom.

>>1) Adam and Eve were not Jewish. "God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it" (Genesis 2:3) before sin entered. "Sanctified" means "to be set apart for holy use." The only ones in the Garden of Eden for whom the Sabbath was “set apart” were Adam and Eve, who weren’t Jewish.<<

Writ immediately expands upon it by declaring that Gd "holy used" the Seventh day as REST. The ‘leap’ occurs with the following: “The only ones in the Garden of Eden...”

>>2) "The Sabbath was made for man." Mark 2:27. Jesus said this. It was "made" in the Garden of Eden before it was "written" down on Mount Sinai. The Sabbath was "made" for "man," not just Jews.<<

I think it dishonest not to include the rest of the passage:

Mark 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

Mark 2:28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

Note: the intrinsically pivotal adverb ‘therefore’ – upon which the entire passage hinges. ‘Therefore’, ‘hence’, ‘consequently’, ‘for this reason] – ’even I, Jesus Christ, have authority over the Sabbath.’

Jesus Christ did not predicate His authority over the Sabbath because He was Creator – but that He shared humanity with man.

This represents a major, major shift from OT epistemology. This was before Jesus Christ's ultimate sacrifice as Redeemer.

What was the determining factor that placed man in authority over the Sabbath?

Whenever the Sabbath was made does not necessarily bear upon any other indicator than that is was made for man, which is a NT revelation. Writ provides us only with its having been given to man upon the events of the Exodus and the authority re it given to man – New Testamentally.

“The Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world” – but its efficacy was not realized until the cross.

>>3) The other nine commandments are not "just for Jews." God wrote "Ten Commandments" on stone, not just nine (See Deut. 4:12, 13; Ex. 20). Does “Do not commit adultery,”“Do not murder,”“Do not steal,” and “Do not bear false witness” apply "only to Jews"?<<

One is ill-advised to make no distinction between the commandments which address man’s relationship to Gd – and those considered ‘moral laws’. Per the laws upon the tablets: specific references make it plain that this Covenant was one established with the COI. The ‘moral laws’ contained in these tablets are and have been common to all cultures above those of the most absolute mean – and cannot be unequivocally tied to the first four. The ‘moral laws’ are also mirrored in the Hammurabic Code – and predate Sinai by about four centuries.

Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed [it] unto them.

Do we find the Seventh-day Sabbath in any other people’s laws? ...indeed not – except by deducements.

Again, the textual references are from the Pentateuch. There were no Jews at the time.

>>4) "The seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God." Exodus 20:10. God calls the Sabbath, "my holy day." Isaiah 58:13. The Bible never calls it "the Sabbath of the Jews." It isn’t their Sabbath, but God's.<<

Exactly. Note: the possessive “my” – as in “my holy day”. The first recorded instance in Holy Writ where man was given that ‘day’ to share with Gd – is where the recitation of it is encountered; that is, upon the Exodus event.

>>5) The Sabbath commandment is for the "stranger" too. The fourth commandment itself says the "stranger" is to rest on the Sabbath. Exodus 20:10.“Strangers” are non-Jews, or Gentiles. Thus the Sabbath applies to them too. Read also Isaiah 56:6.<<

Ex 20:10 But the seventh day [is] the sabbath of the LORD thy God: [in it] thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that [is] within thy gates:

Where one was found to be within the economy of the Jews – it was expected of even that ‘stranger’ to comply with their traditions – inasmuch as was possible.

Again, during the Exodus there were no Jews.

[jasd]

>>6) Isaiah said Gentiles should keep the Sabbath. "Also the sons of the stranger ... every one that keeps the Sabbath ... for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people." Isaiah 56:6, 7. Thus the Sabbath is for Gentiles and “all people,” not just for Jews.<<

Isa 56:7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices [shall be] accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.

Ahh, here indeed, do we finally encounter the Jews. That said, notice the text: it addresses the Jewish economy – not the Gentiles of the world.

>>7) "All" mankind will keep the Sabbath in the New Earth. In "the new earth ... from one Sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, says the Lord." Isaiah 66:22, 23. Here God says that “all flesh” will be keeping the Sabbath in “the new earth.” If this is the case – and it is – shouldn’t we start now?<<

Indeed. Although the periodicity of the Sabbaths of the Isaiah 66 prophecies is not specified – it is my position that the chapter is addressing a Seventh-day Sabbath. That, however, is not verified nor validated by Holy Writ. We simply do not know. It speaks, simply, to the issue of Sabbath/rests. Do these hint at the creation epics of Genesis 1 & 2? or does it reference the creation of “a new heaven and a new earth”?

We do not know.

To assume dogmatically, is much too precipitous.

>>8) Gentiles kept the Sabbath in the Book of Acts. "The Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath ... Paul and Barnabas ... persuaded them to continue in the grace of God."' Acts 13:42, 43. Here saved-by-grace Gentiles kept the Sabbath (see also verse 44).<<

The ‘Gentiles’ spoken of here are those who had entered into the economy of the Jews. It, therefor, became incumbent upon them to accept the traditions of the Jews. A tradition of the Jews was the observance of a Seventh-day Sabbath. It is suggested that they were also circumcised. Is that a NT requirement?

>>9) "The law" [of Ten Commandments] is for "all the world," not just for Jews. Paul wrote these words. Read Romans 2:17-23; 3:19, 23.

Rom 2:17 Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,

Rom 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

This is a poor argument. St Paul does not speak positively of the legalism required by/in the Law.

Live by the Law/Judged by the Law. Not pretty.

>.10) Luke was a Gentile who kept the Sabbath. Luke was the only Gentile who wrote any New Testament books (he wrote The Gospel According to St. Luke and The Acts of the Apostles). Luke traveled with Paul and wrote, "On the Sabbath we went out of the city by a river side." Acts 16:13. It was the seventh-day Sabbath, the memorial of the creation (see Ex. 20:11). Both Luke and Paul knew it....excerpts from article by Steve Wohlberg<<

I don’t have an issue with the Sabbath of Acts 16:13 being the Seventh-day Sabbath of the Jews; however, are we absolutely certain?

Deut 5:15 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and [that] the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.

Jesus Christ quoted from Deuteronomy more than from any other book. What’s that say re Exodus 20:8-11 vis-à-vis Deuteronomy 5:15?

[John317]

.....I don’t have an issue with the Sabbath of Acts 16:13 being the Seventh-day Sabbath of the Jews; however, are we absolutely certain?

In the NT, do you know of a single instance where a ceremonial Sabbath is unquestionably referred to by the words, Ton Sabbatwn(THE Sabbath)?

Quote:

Deut 5:15 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and [that] the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.

Jesus Christ quoted from Deuteronomy more than from any other book. What’s that say re Exodus 20:8-11 vis-à-vis Deuteronomy 5:15?

The Dead Sea Scrolls Bible, which dates before the time of Christ, proves that at Deuteronomy, the original book contained both reasons for keeping the Sabbath. Remember that Moses is here reviewing the law. He is making the law relevant to his audience by reminding them that they were once slaves and that they are not to force others to work on the Sabbath like they were forced to work while in Egypt.

By the way, the first reason given for keeping the Sabbath is the creation; the second reason is that they were freed from Egyptian slavery. Why is that a reason? Because God freed them so that they might keep His law. That is always the way God works: God saves us in order to keep His law. We do not first keep His law, then become saved.

In the Dead Sea Scrolls Bible, the reading is 1000 years older than the text that most modern Bibles are translated from. There are very few differences but one important difference is in Deut. 5.

[Robert]

By the way, the first reason given for keeping the Sabbath is the creation; the second reason is that they were freed from Egyptian slavery. Why is that a reason?

1] The Sabbath of creation no longer points to a perfect creation and hence God no longer rests from His perfect work because, thanks to the fall, it is imperfect. Since we are to rest as God rested and since God isn't resting any longer as it pertains to the creation, then we need to follow His example and not rest.

2] The Sabbath, as it pointed to a perfect redemption from bondage, is a Jewish sign.

Hence, we are not called to acknowledge the Sabbath from these two views.

Rob

[Robert]

Again, folks, we must remember that the Sabbath is a sign or symbol that points to a truth.

Gen 2:2-3 and Ex 20:8-11 are linked

Gen 2:2 By the seventh day God had finished the work [of creation] he had been doing [past tense]; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work. 3 And God blessed the seventh day and made set it apart, [why?] because on it [the 7th day] he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.

Why did God rest? Because His work was finished. Not only that but it was perfect. God rested in that He never had to add to that perfect work, until the fall. At that point God started working again. Why? Because both the world and mankind stood imperfect. So He set out to redeem the human race "in Christ Jesus." That work is a finished work accomplished at the cross. God rested from His perfect work "in Christ". He rested that Sabbath about 2000 years ago and has been resting ever since. That is the only reason to keep the Sabbath as sign.

Rob

[John317]

Originally Posted By: John317

By the way, the first reason given for keeping the Sabbath is the creation; the second reason is that they were freed from Egyptian slavery. Why is that a reason?

1] The Sabbath of creation no longer points to a perfect creation and hence God no longer rests from His perfect work because, thanks to the fall, it is imperfect. Since we are to rest as God rested and since God isn't resting any longer as it pertains to the creation, then we need to follow His example and not rest.

2] The Sabbath, as it pointed to a perfect redemption from bondage, is a Jewish sign.

Hence, we are not called to acknowledge the Sabbath from these two views.

Rob

I understand that you are repeating what Jack Sequeira says, and that is OK if you choose to do that. You are free to follow Jack Sequeira if you want.

However, the Bible at Exodus 20 tells us that the reason for keeping the Sabbath on the 7th day of the week is that God created the world and rested the seventh-day, wherefore God blessed the sabbath-day and made it holy. In the original of Deut. 5, as the most ancient copies of those verses show, that reason for keeping the Sabbath is repeated.

The reason given does not say anything at all about a "perfect creation." It says simply that God is the One who made the heavens and the earth. This is the reason given for keeping the Sabbath: God made us. The fact of the fall does not change anything: God made the world; that is what's significant as far as the fourth commandment is concerned.

A second reason is redemption. God freed us from slavery to sin, just as He freed Israel from slavery in Egypt. (The church is spiritual Israel; it was redeemed from slavery also.)

Those are my reasons for keeping the Sabbath, on the basis of what the Bible says. Jesus Christ not only made the world and humanity, but Jesus Christ died so that we might be free from sin. That is redemption.

There is nothing here which says that the Fall changed those reasons for keeping the Sabbath. Therefore, they are still legitimate reasons for keeping the weekly Sabbath.

Both the Bible and the Spirit of prophecy say this plainly. "So long as the heavens and the earth endure, the Sabbath will continue as a sign of the Creator's power." See DA 281-289.

[John317]

Again, folks, we must remember that the Sabbath is a sign or symbol that points to a truth.

Gen 2:2-3 and Ex 20:8-11 are linked

Gen 2:2 By the seventh day God had finished the work [of creation] he had been doing [past tense]; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work. 3 And God blessed the seventh day and made set it apart, [why?] because on it [the 7th day] he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.

Why did God rest? Because His work was finished....

You are right, and notice that there is nothing there at all about a change resulting from the Fall. The Fall did not change the eternal fact that God is our creator.

God gave the reason for keeping the Sabbath as a reminder of God as our Creator, and this reason was given in Eden and was repeated in Exodus 20, spoken by the voice of God and written by God's finger in stone.

The Fall changed nothing as far as the keeping of the Sabbath is concerned. We still keep it for the same reason, with the addition that resting on it also now points to the "rest" of faith now and ultimate salvation then that we will experience in heaven. Hebrews 4.

Hebrews 4 is in addition to Genesis 2 and Exodus 20; Deut. 5. The reasons given in Hebrews 4 is in addition; they are not a contradiction of the reason given in the Ten Commandments.

All of this is WONDERFUL news for all people! God not only made us but He loved us enough to die for our freedom from sin and to give us eternal life!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[John317]

The Sabbath was hallowed at the creation. As ordained for man, it had its origin when "the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy." Job 38:7. Peace brooded over the world; for earth was in harmony with heaven. "God saw everything that He had made, and, behold, it was very good;" and He rested in the joy of His completed work. Gen. 1:31.

Because He had rested upon the Sabbath, "God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it,"--set it apart to a holy use. He gave it to Adam as a day of rest. It was a memorial of the work of creation, and thus a sign of God's power and His love. The Scripture says, "He hath made His wonderful works to be remembered." "The things that are made," declare "the invisible things of Him since the creation of the world," "even His everlasting power and divinity." Gen. 2:3; Ps. 111:4; Rom. 1:20, R. V.

All things were created by the Son of God. "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God. . . . All things were made by Him; and without Him was not anything made that was made." John 1:1-3. And since the Sabbath is a memorial of the work of creation, it is a token of the love and power of Christ.

The Sabbath calls our thoughts to nature, and brings us into communion with the Creator. In the song of the bird, the sighing of the trees, and the music of the sea, we still may hear His voice who talked with Adam in Eden in the cool of the day. And as we behold His power in nature we find comfort, for the word that created all things is that which speaks life to the soul. He "who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ." 2 Cor. 4:6. . . .

The Sabbath was embodied in the law given from Sinai; but it was not then first made known as a day of rest. The people of Israel had a knowledge of it before they came to Sinai. On the way thither the Sabbath was kept. When some profaned it, the Lord reproved them, saying, "How long refuse ye to keep My commandments and My laws?" Ex. 16:28.

The Sabbath was not for Israel merely, but for the world. It had been made known to man in Eden, and, like the other precepts of the Decalogue, it is of imperishable obligation. Of that law of which the fourth commandment forms a part, Christ declares, "Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in nowise pass from the law." So long as the heavens and the earth endure, the Sabbath will continue as a sign of the Creator's power . And when Eden shall bloom on earth again, God's holy rest day will be honored by all beneath the sun. "From one Sabbath to another" the inhabitants of the glorified new earth shall go up "to worship before Me, saith the Lord." Matt. 5:18; Isa. 66:23. . . .

"Wherefore the Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath." These words are full of instruction and comfort. Because the Sabbath was made for man, it is the Lord's day. It belongs to Christ. For "all things were made by Him; and without Him was not anything made that was made." John 1:3. Since He made all things, He made the Sabbath. By Him it was set apart as a memorial of the work of creation. It points to Him as both the Creator and the Sanctifier. It declares that He who created all things in heaven and in earth, and by whom all things hold together, is the head of the church, and that by His power we are reconciled to God. For, speaking of Israel, He said, "I gave them My Sabbaths, to be a sign between Me and them, that they might know that I am the Lord that sanctify them,"--make them holy. Ezek. 20:12. Then the Sabbath is a sign of Christ's power to make us holy. And it is given to all whom Christ makes holy. As a sign of His sanctifying power, the Sabbath is given to all who through Christ become a part of the Israel of God.

And the Lord says, "If thou turn away thy foot from the Sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on My holy day; and call the Sabbath a delight, the holy of the Lord, honorable; . . . then shalt thou delight thyself in the Lord." Isa. 58:13, 14. To all who receive the Sabbath as a sign of Christ's creative and redeeming power, it will be a delight. Seeing Christ in it, they delight themselves in Him. The Sabbath points them to the works of creation as an evidence of His mighty power in redemption. While it calls to mind the lost peace of Eden, it tells of peace restored through the Saviour. And every object in nature repeats His invitation, "Come unto Me, all ye that labor and are heavy-laden, and I will give you rest." Matt 11:28.

Published in The Desire of Ages, pp. 281-289.

[Reddogs]

Ok, here is a question for everyone...

Why didnt God create everything in one day and finish it all and rest on that day....

[John317]

I believe the weekly cycle capped by the 7th day Sabbath is the secret of why God created the world in 6 days instead of in one day.

So God's plan of celebrating His creation with us is really the basic reason for God's creating the world in 6 days.

He might have created everything in one brief moment of time or in one day, but instead He chose to do it in 6 days so that man would have 24 hours of "holy time" every 7 days, not only for rest but for getting to know our great Creator and becoming more like Him.

I find that a wonderful, exciting thought.

[Robert]

I understand that you are repeating what Jack Sequeira says, and that is OK if you choose to do that. You are free to follow Jack Sequeira if you want.

[Robert]

Published in The Desire of Ages, pp. 281-289.

We have many lessons to learn, and many, many to unlearn. God and heaven alone are infallible. Those who think that they will never have to give up a cherished view, never have occasion to change an opinion, will be disappointed.

The fact that there is no controversy or agitation among God’s people, should not be regarded as conclusive evidence that they are holding fast to sound doctrine. There is reason to fear that they may not be clearly discriminating between truth and error. When no new questions are started by investigation of the Scriptures, when no difference of opinion arises which will set men to searching the Bible for themselves, to make sure that they have the truth, there will be many now, as in ancient times, who will hold to tradition, and worship they know not what.

[John317]

It's been proven by the Dead Sea Scrolls that the original reading at Deut. 5 refers to the creation as the main reason for the keeping of the Sabbath. It is no different from Exodus 20, except that Moses adds that the people were freed from slavery by the same God who created the world.

But let us suppose you are right, that Deut. 5 refers only to the liberation of the Jews from slavery?

That does not alter the fact that when God proclaimed the Sabbath and wrote it on stone, God Himself made the direct connection between the creation of the world and the weekly Sabbath.

Moses' retelling of the law before the Israelites went into the Promised Land does not change what God said and wrote in Exodus 20. Those two reasons do not contradict each other. On the contrary, creation and redemption complement each other.

Yes, I agree that God is trying to tell us something. Both in the Bible and in the Spirit of prophecy, God is telling us that the Sabbath is a memorial of creation and a reminder that God frees us from slavery. In Romans 6, of course, Paul speaks of our freedom from slavery to sin, so it is a very appropriate symbol.

[Woody]

Quote:

Thank you for your permission, but actually I am following the Bible. I know you are heavily influenced by EGW. In fact just about everything you state comes straight from her way of thinking, but that's okay you are free to think with a closed mind.

No, EGW said that. Lazy Adventists use her writing to escape wrestling with the Bible and learning what it has to say....It's always easy to say, "Thus saith Ellen White"! Sorry, I can't accept this type of idolatry.

Rob

You know Rob ... you bring up a valid point. Many SDAs 'think' they are free to 'think' and that they are. But in reality they are just robots studying EGW and making her views theirs instead of studying the Bible and making the Bible theirs.

[Robert]

The Fall changed nothing as far as the keeping of the Sabbath is concerned.

No, your Sabbath keeping is a lie because it points to a perfect creation. That creation has fallen and hence the Sabbath of creation no longer points to a perfect creation.

Again, for those hard-headed folks, God rested because His work was perfect...it was complete. So when you rest as God rested, you are symbolically stating that you rest because you agree that God's work of creation is perfect.

Well, if that's you conclusion I would have to say this would make one rather delusional because this world is anything but perfect.

As soon as Adam fell God stopped resting in His perpetual Sabbath. He immediately started working. Do you know what His work was? Right, saving you "in Christ", which was secured on the cross.

Eventually we will receive our new creation "in Christ Jesus". When that happens then the Sabbath will come full circle and once again stand as a sign of perfection. Then God will once again rest in His perfect and finished restoration.

Rob

[Robert]

In Romans 6, of course, Paul speaks of our freedom from slavery to sin, so it is a very appropriate symbol.

If you are free from sin why do you sin? Christ never sinned, not even by a thought! And not only are you sinning, you are in a state of sin because you are never fully measuring up to Christ's life, which was a fulfillment of the law.

SO, you are wrong again.

[John317]

[John317]

Quote:

Thank you for your permission, but actually I am following the Bible. I know you are heavily influenced by EGW. In fact just about everything you state comes straight from her way of thinking, but that's okay you are free to think with a closed mind.

No, EGW said that. Lazy Adventists use her writing to escape wrestling with the Bible and learning what it has to say....It's always easy to say, "Thus saith Ellen White"! Sorry, I can't accept this type of idolatry.

Rob

You know Rob ... you bring up a valid point. Many SDAs 'think' they are free to 'think' and that they are. But in reality they are just robots studying EGW and making her views theirs instead of studying the Bible and making the Bible theirs.

Do you agree with this Fundamental Belief of the Seventh-day Adventist Church regarding the Sabbath or do you believe that it contradicts the Bible:

Quote:

"The beneficent Creator, after the six days of Creation, rested on the seventh day and instituted the Sabbath for all people as a memorial of Creation...."

"God is Creator of all things, and has revealed in Scripture the authentic account of His creative activity. In six days the Lord made "the heaven and the earth" and all living things upon the earth, and rested on the seventh day of that first week. Thus He established the Sabbath as a perpetual memorial of His completed creative work. The first man and woman were made in the image of God as the crowning work of Creation, given dominion over the world, and charged with responsibility to care for it. When the world was finished it was ``very good,'' declaring the glory of God. (Gen. 1; 2; Ex. 20:8-11; Ps. 19:1-6; 33:6, 9; 104; Heb. 11:3.)

Do you believe that the Spirit of prophecy is mistaken on this also? Do the writings of Ellen White on this point contradict the Bible, in your judgement?

[John317]

Originally Posted By: John317

In Romans 6, of course, Paul speaks of our freedom from slavery to sin, so it is a very appropriate symbol.

If you are free from sin why do you sin? Christ never sinned, not even by a thought! And not only are you sinning, you are in a state of sin because you are never fully measuring up to Christ's life, which was a fulfillment of the law.

SO, you are wrong again.

Read Romans 6. For instance, look at Romans 6: 22--

"But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life. "

Believers in Christ are "freed from sin," according to Paul.

Don't you believe this? What is Paul saying in Romans 6: 22?

When I compare freedom from Egyptian slavery to freedom from slavery to sin, I am repeating the same thing that Paul says here. Believers in Christ are freed from sin in the sense that Paul means it here.

[John317]

.... So when you rest as God rested, you are symbolically stating that you rest because you agree that God's work of creation is perfect.

Well, if that's you conclusion I would have to say this would make one rather delusional because this world is anything but perfect...

Rob, you have a lot of very wonderful ideas, yet just here there is a real problem, my good friend.

Nowhere in the Bible does it say that when we rest on the Sabbath, we are agreeing that the world is perfect NOW. The truth is that we are agreeing God created a perfect world at the time God made it. The seventh day Sabbath is not a denial that Satan got man to fall.

The fact that the world is not perfect NOW is even more reason why we need to remind ourselves every seven days that God created a perfect world and that it will once again be perfect, as in Rev. 21 and 22.