Key Guy Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 An open letter to Rush... I won't call you 'Dude' or 'Dud'. Although you have been piled-on by a few people here, I sense your passion and frustration. Don't lose the passion! I do not disagree with any of the original points listed in the first post. I don't know much about Jesuits in particular, but even though there is a fine line between paranoia and healthy suspicion, I am not afraid to approach the line as I think suspicion is a good thing. We wouldn't be told to be as 'wise as serpents' if there were not a reason to be suspicious of the devil's insidious tactics. There was a time when open sin was not tolerated in the members of the SDA church. Those days are over. We do not test the commitment of the baptismal candidates beyond just asking them if they buy the 28 beliefs. I suspect that is mostly driven by economics and perhaps bragging rights to our astronomical growth. The language of the conferences = numbers and money. It amazes me that God's messengers down through time from creation to the early 1900's have all become wrong regarding women as ordained ministers. I still don't know what trumped all those words of the prophets just in the past few decades. If our SDA church can just shuck a few more restrictions from the past, we'll be at Heaven's gate in no time. Don't let certain members here get to you personally. They are what they are. Hang on to your convictions as God reveals them. Change if He tells you, stand firm if He tells you. In spite of what's been said here, I would be happy to worship beside you and be inspired by your love to keep the integrity of the church at the highest of levels. I'm standing beside you for the next round of comments by the educated elite. Shields up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted May 23, 2009 Members Share Posted May 23, 2009 427 L88 ? og What may I ask are you talking about with this post Olger? A corvette engine? Or are you really replying to something? :) haha Cause I'm not sure what you mean by this. pk Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olger Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 hi PK. The guy's name is club 427 and he belongs to a racing club and i figured... and...it was off topic and I am guilty, og Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted May 23, 2009 Members Share Posted May 23, 2009 OK now I see, thanks. pk Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClubV12 Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 1965 427 Ford, just to set the record straight... Where were we? When you say you love the gay "members" of your church (God bless you for that), do you mean people who are simply attending your church or literally are openly gay official MEMBERS of an SDA church? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted May 24, 2009 Members Share Posted May 24, 2009 I'm pretty sure you were not directing this question to me, but I will give you a reply anyway. A number of years ago, around 35, we had this friend who My wife and I used to invite to go places with us, like bowling,etc. He went to the New York Center with my wife's brother. He was an elder there and so when we had our daughter we invited him to dedicate her to the Lord. About a year or so later he left the area and that's when we learned that he was gay from my wife's brother who had gone to Southern with him. They kept it quite. I don't believe that had he told us before dedicating our daughter to the Lord that we would've changed anything, since I did have a friend that lived around the corner from me that was gay, but not an adventist. I'm not sure where he is now but I remember hearing that he had started a AA kind of group for gay's in Pennsylvania I believe. Than a number of years after that I remember seeing him on the Mike Douglas Show speaking about this group, not exactly sure what the name was, and how they were helping gay's. Also at that time was when they had just started saying that gay's were born that way. So he was there to say that that was not true, etc. Its been quite a number of years ago so I don't want to say something that is not accurate so I'll leave it there for now. But I have since last contact with him. But as far as allowing gay's to be member's I'm not sure. I think I would allow them to come to church and worship, they are no different than any other sinner. pk Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Key Guy Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 There is a difference between identifying your self as gay and being a practicing homosexual. There are thousands of alcoholics in this country that don't dare drink a drop. They are not living in open, premeditated sin. Our pastor just this past week, caught my attention when he defined 'iniquity' as planned sin. I took this to mean deciding to sin although we KNEW it was a sin and did it anyway. Rather than get into the 'born as a gay' issue, I'd rather focus on the 'God has more than enough grace to help us overcome all cultivated and inherited tendencies to evil' (SOP paraphrase) Everyone of us have come from some kind of iniquity before conversion. The church is there to help with that ongoing growing in grace process. But church membership should not be granted to those who have not surrendered their lives to Christ or have lost their commitment and slipped into an 'open sin' lifestyle. Having a weakness toward evil (like gambling, sex addiction, drug addiction, porn, stealing, swearing, homosexuality, gluttony, etc.) is not the same as practicing. Surrendering to Christ's power makes all the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted May 24, 2009 Members Share Posted May 24, 2009 Hey tw, I like your post. You basically said what I was trying, but didn't, and pretty much what my friend was trying to get across in his interview. Thanks. pk Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted May 24, 2009 Moderators Share Posted May 24, 2009 There is a difference between identifying your self as gay and being a practicing homosexual. There are thousands of alcoholics in this country that don't dare drink a drop. They are not living in open, premeditated sin. ........But church membership should not be granted to those who have not surrendered their lives to Christ or have lost their commitment and slipped into an 'open sin' lifestyle. Having a weakness toward evil (like gambling, sex addiction, drug addiction, porn, stealing, swearing, homosexuality, gluttony, etc.) is not the same as practicing. Surrendering to Christ's power makes all the difference. Great post, timewarp. Agree with every word of it. Thanks. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Jeannieb43 Posted May 24, 2009 Moderators Share Posted May 24, 2009 Originally Posted By: timewarp There is a difference between identifying your self as gay and being a practicing homosexual. There are thousands of alcoholics in this country that don't dare drink a drop. They are not living in open, premeditated sin. ........But church membership should not be granted to those who have not surrendered their lives to Christ or have lost their commitment and slipped into an 'open sin' lifestyle. Having a weakness toward evil (like gambling, sex addiction, drug addiction, porn, stealing, swearing, homosexuality, gluttony, etc.) is not the same as practicing. Surrendering to Christ's power makes all the difference. Great post, timewarp. Agree with every word of it. Thanks. Agree, also. (That's one reason why same-sex "marriage" should not be anathema to us. There are many couples [both hetero- and homo-] who are not actively sexual themselves. Just being married brings a closeness they wouldn't have otherwise.) This doesn't mean I want to be in a same-sex marriage for myself -- no, never! But I wouldn't try to bar a non-actively practicing homosexual from having a "marital" relationship -- for the closeness it brings, and for the legal benefts also. IOW, I believe we should not legislate morals. Quote Jeannie<br /><br /><br />...Change is inevitable; growth is optional.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planey Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 The best thing you can do for the poor, is not to become one. I find this flippant (I assume) comment offensive on a number of levels. Graeme Quote Graeme____________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. Allan Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Jennie, wow! I'm proud of you. I was wondering if it would be too audacious express that opinion. Agree with you 1000% () dab Quote dAb O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fccool Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 Originally Posted By: John317 Great post, timewarp. Agree with every word of it. Thanks. [/quote'] Agree, also. (That's one reason why same-sex "marriage" should not be anathema to us. There are many couples [both hetero- and homo-] who are not actively sexual themselves. Just being married brings a closeness they wouldn't have otherwise.) This doesn't mean I want to be in a same-sex marriage for myself -- no, never! But I wouldn't try to bar a non-actively practicing homosexual from having a "marital" relationship -- for the closeness it brings, and for the legal benefts also. IOW, I believe we should not legislate morals. This is where I do disagree and agree on some levels . Morality is the basis for any legislation, at least in principle. PS... law is by definition legal , and thus pertaining legislation, be it God's law, or men's law derived from God's. On the other hand, I think that the common law system is far superior than legal enforcement mumbo jumbo of a legal system of today. It's ironic that Gay men would strive for a marriage license considering that they could enjoy the same privileges as single men living together... including the adoption privileges, which is raised as the biggest issue concerning gay marriage. It's kind of on the same level of a church fighting the state for the 501c3 status, thus subjecting itself to state control and regulation. Something to think about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyblue888 Posted December 22, 2010 Share Posted December 22, 2010 The government has nothing to do with legislating morality. It cannot punish immorality, only incivility. Morality is the realm of God, not of politics. When the government punishes a man for murder he is not punished for his immorality but for his incivility. "That's one reason why same-sex "marriage" should not be anathema to us. There are many couples [both hetero- and homo-] who are not actively sexual themselves. Just being married brings a closeness they wouldn't have otherwise.)" What do you mean by "should not be anathema to us". It is to God, is it not? At least He says that it is an abomination to Him. sky Quote "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyblue888 Posted December 22, 2010 Share Posted December 22, 2010 If there are no Jesuits on this site taking notes and pushing their agendas, then we may as well say that Satan is a figment of man's imagination. Jesuits are known to be highly educated and very subtle in their approach. If there are no Jesuits holding positions of responsibility within the SDA organization, then the devil is asleep at the wheel. I would dare to say that they have been at work within the SDA church for many years. More than 100 years ago Mrs. White saw the leadership of the church already following in the track of Rome. She saw the church narrowing the distance between herself and the papacy! In the seasons of the night Mrs. White was given a dream in which she saw the leaders of the church walking two and two toward the building she was in. She was about to let them in when she decided to look again. The company now presented the appearance of a catholic procession! One bore in his hand a cross, another a reed! You can read the whole of this amazing dream in Testimonies, Vol.1, p.578. It is no secret that the Jesuits are working to bring the whole world at the feet of the papacy. They are determined that the Catholic church shall regain her lost supremacy. In order to achieve this aim, they have infiltrated churches and governments, especially the SDA church and the government of the United States for these two are her two most formidable obstacles to regaining her supremacy. Once these shall have been taken out of the way, it will not be long before the whole world shall wonder after her. This discussion should not be about how we should treat Jesuits for Christians are to treat all equally, with love, but about realizing that this church has been taken over by the enemy of all righteousness as all the other denominations have been. The book Testimonies to Ministers is replete with statements to that effect. The Catholic church is now powerless to impose her will. She is tolerant where she is helpless. But "The pacific tone of Rome in the United States does not imply a change of heart." G.C.565. When her wound shall have been completely healed, thanks to the persistent work of the Jesuits, working behind the scenes, we shall see that she has not changed indeed. Now "She is employing every device to extend her influence and increase her power in preparation for a fierce and determined conflict to regain control of the world, to re-establish persecution, and to undo all that Protestantism has done. Catholicism is gaining ground upon every side." G.C.565,566. sky Speaking of Jesuits, we read, "When appearing as members of their order, they wear a garb of sanctity, visiting prisons and hospitals, ministering to the sick and the poor, professing to have renounced the world, and bearing the sacred name of Jesus, who went about doing good. But under this blameless exterior the most criminal and deadly purposes are often concealed... Vowed to perpetual poverty and humility, it is their studied aim to secure wealth and power, to be devoted to the overthrow of Protestantism, and the re-establishment of the papal supremacy.. There is no crime too great for them to commit, no deception too base for them to practice, no disguise too difficult for them to assume." The Great Controversy, p.234,5. Quote "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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