Was Alberto Rivera for real? Or was he a liar?

[John317]

Reading books by Malachi Martin and articles by George F Will expands the vocabulary considerably.

DB

Yes, they do indeed. Both very good writers. Which books do you have by Martin?

[Kountzer]

keys, and the jesuit book. I have never read a book written by George f will, but I read his op ed columns occasionally, and I watch him of tv, usually on sunday mornings. He is very erudite. Martin was also. I don't agree with everything they say, but I admire their ways of expressing themselves.

DB

[John317]

How much of the Keys book have you read?

Have you read much of Marx or about Marxism?

[John317]

@John317

Thank you, again, sir.

@BobRyan

I really do appreciate those quotes. Those are important things to keep in mind.

In evangelism.

But right now, we're not evangelizing. We're having a discussion amongst ourselves.

Quote:

In bearing the message make no personal thrusts at other churches

"bearing the message" is the work of evangelism.

Personally I agree with the doctrinal aspects of the posts, which point out the errors in Catholic teachings, but I do feel that sometimes your posts are too harsh in their thrusts against Catholics. We have to remember that God has millions of His honest, sincere people in the Catholic church, and if we talk in a way that comes across to them as unloving and unChristian, it will impress them in the wrong way, and we could drive them away rather than attract them to Christ. I have many in-laws who are Catholic, and they are some of the kindest and loving people I know. In fact, I'm ashamed to say that they often show greater thoughtfulness and kindness than some members of my own church.

Let us never forget that many of the Catholics love Jesus and are just as true to Him in their own way as we are. God takes into account that they don't know all that He's revealed to us. But let's never give them an excuse to accuse us of not being loving Christians.

It's fine on the threads to attack false teachings and doctrines but we should try to keep away as much as possible from making sharp thrusts that would be easy to misinterpret as being oppose to Christ's law of love.

[rush4hire]

They would doubtless be shocked to think that anyone believes the celebration means that they agree with everything Thomas More did.

[Taylor]

It is better to light a candle than curse the darkness. When the darkness has to be pointed out it can be done with love. There are many beautiful Catholic people that do not deserve to be lumped into the same catagory as "a system". There are well-meaning people who do not understand things the same way we do, but one attracts with honey not vinegar. Truth can be presented in a loving way.

[Neil D]

How do I know it's not the Devil using you to throw a stumbling block before me?

You guys offer alot of criticism, but where are your suggestions? You all have so much more experience in evangelism and soul winning than I do. So what am I doing wrong?

Why not quote the line you think is too offensive, and tell me how you would say it. Show me how it's done.

What are you doing to get this 3rd angel's message to a loud cry? I'll do whatever you're doing, if it's working.

_________________________

I make personal attacks.

[putting on my moderator's hat]

First off, try being a bit more human, instead of a religious fanatic.

Religious fanatics are fine as long as they are human...

Second, remove the "I make personal attacks" tagline...if you are not interested in hearing someone, then this will not get you the bonding that you need to make your point valid to the other person. Beside that, you are not practicing the grace God intended you to have.

3rd...be nice..practice net-ettiquit rules. There's a reason that they are there. If you don't know, let me explain it in a simple sentence...It provides credibility. If you are rude, and practice a bit of sarcasim at every oppertunity, or are just plain anti-common sense, you will not have much credibility. Remember that Grace that God is supposed to have imbued you with...well, it's a good idea to practice it...And practice makes perfect...[that alone is worth a minimum of 10 years of practice before being rated a beginner]

[neil now takes off his moderator's hat and moves on]

[John317]

Originally Posted By: John317

Let us never forget that many of the Catholics love Jesus and are just as true to Him in their own way as we are. God takes into account that they don't know all that He's revealed to us. But let's never give them an excuse to accuse us of not being loving Christians.

And that's why God is saying:

Rev. 18:4 Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

I have my moderator's hat on now, Rush.

I'd like to add to what Neil, Amelia, Taylor, Bravus, and a few others have said already:

Yes, I agree that God is saying , "Come out of her, my people," but the way you are going about it on this thread won't make Catholics want to come out. Your posts only make them think that you represent extremism and fanaticism. They resist fanaticism or what appears to them as fanaticism.

What Catholics want to see and hear-- what attracts them to Adventists-- is Bible truth, love for Christ, thoughtfulness towards others, and practical Christianity.

What you are presenting on this thread would only make them feel that they don't want to have anything to do with what you are representing. They wouldn't recognize the Catholic Church-- which they know from experience-- in what you are posting.

If you want to post things about the Catholic Church, try to do it in a way that is less confrontational and more conversational. The important thing here is to exchange views and ideas as kindly as possible, and not browbeat or intimidate them.

We have lots of different, and even conflicting, viewpoints expressed on the Forum, so the one thing that must be insisted on is that people treat each other as respectfully and thoughtfully as possible. The idea is to do to others as you would have them do to you, even (or especially?) when people don't agree with you.

It's not a point of honor to make personal attacks on people (noticing your tag-line). If members do that and don't stop-- or when they continue to bring private arguments or old grudges on the public forum-- after they've been told several times to stop doing it, they shouldn't be surprised if they get suspended or banned. We want to make the Forum a welcome place for people to come and post their ideas without fear of being personally attacked or called names, etc.

[Kountzer]

I flirted around with marx and marxism in my late teens and early 20s. The iron curtain and the ussr were still around. I had some college who attended Univ of Texas who were into marx. It was like a religion to them. They would loan me books to read. I would read some passage, but I really couldn't get into it.

I had been exposed the adventist teaching early, but I didn't want to surrender to all that. I was looking for ansswrs elsewhere. Eventually I joined the church, and I left all that behind. The friends with the marxist books became professionals and capitalist consumers. They left all that behind also.

Martin does an excellent job explaining what marxixm is or was all about.

[John317]

That is kind of amazing, because we really have something in common, then. I also was deep into Marx and Marxism. After I got out of the army in 1971, I eventually joined the Trotskiest Socialist Workers Party, and went around to different college campuses organizing anti-war demonstrations and pro-choice debates, etc. I was involved in a really bad accident on the way to a socialist convention in Chicago. A few years later I went to an evangelistic series and decided to give my life to Jesus Christ. All of my atheist, Marxist friends thought I had lost my mind.

By the way, I never knew any Marxists or atheists who had actually studied the Bible and knew what they were talking about when it came to Jesus Christ. Having grown up in a Seventh-day Adventist home and in Loma Linda, I knew the Bible well, and I was always amazed at the ridiculous criticism they made of the Bible.

It was a real education I'll never forget.

[rush4hire]

[putting on my moderator's hat]

[Woody]

I would like to add my two cents also .... that the Catholic people are our Christian brothers and sisters.

The only way to help them to grow is the following:

Love Won Another

[rush4hire]

I would like to add my two cents also .... that the Catholic people are our Christian brothers and sisters.

The only way to help them to grow is the following:

Love Won Another

[Stan]

Keep any Jesuits topics to one thread.

[Neil D]

Originally Posted By: Neil D

First off, try being a bit more human, instead of a religious fanatic.

Religious fanatics are fine as long as they are human...

I didn't see anything fanatical. Are you saying it's fanatical to say the prophecies are coming true now? Is it fanatical to say that I believe the false accusations and murders against JFK, the Davidians, Jim Arrabito, Alberto Rivera, Tony Alamo, Jack Chick, Ellen White, and others, where stirred up mainly by Papists, and it had something to do with their anti-Vatican/U.S.-alliance beliefs?

I think that's what you are saying. Right?

What do you call fanatical? You guys are not giving specific examples.

[Amelia]

Quote:

To say everyone in the world is your brother and sister sounds good, but I'm not sure it's Biblical.

We are all Gods children. He created us. Ergo, we are brothers and sisters in Christ.

[rush4hire]

Originally Posted By: rush4hire

To say everyone in the world is your brother and sister sounds good, but I'm not sure it's Biblical.

We are all Gods children. He created us. Ergo, we are brothers and sisters in Christ.

I think the Pope said something like that, but he didn't quote any Bible verses.

I'm not trying to introduce any new theology here. And I sure don't want to be mean spirited. But if I hear something, and it's not in the Bible, then I go ahead and say something. Then if people think I'm the Devil, then there's nothing I can do.

You could say we are all brothers and sisters physically.

[color:#BF0000]Acts 17:26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth...

But not spiritually.

[color:#BF0000]1 Cor. 5:9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:

5:10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.

5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

5:12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?

This verse says that some are brothers and some are not.

Or do you have a verse that says we all brothers and sisters in Christ? Is there any verse in the Bible that says this? Is there any quote from Ellen White?

We see also, that not everyone is our neighbor:

[color:#BF0000]Luke 10:29 But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour?

10:30 And Jesus answering said, A certain [man] went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded [him], and departed, leaving [him] half dead.

10:31 And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side.

10:32 And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked [on him], and passed by on the other side.

10:33 But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion [on him],

10:34 And went to [him], and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him.

10:35 And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave [them] to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee.

10:36 Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves?

10:37 And he said, He that showed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.

Which one was the neighbor? All of them? No. The only one who was the neighbour, was the one that showed mercy.

Was the priest the neighbor? No. Because he did not care that the man was dying. He may have thought the guy deserved what he got somehow. Maybe there was something on the news about the guy being involved with kiddie porn or something, and he just assumed the allegations where true because it was on the news.

[rush4hire]

We are all Gods children.

Again, physically OK, but spiritually, Bible doesn't seem to agree. To be called children of God is conditional.

[color:#BF0000]Matt. 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name:

Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Philip. 2:15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;

And some are called children of the Devil.

[color:#BF0000]Acts 13:10 And said, O full of all subtlety and all mischief, [thou] child of the devil, [thou] enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord?

John 8:44 Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.

(Jesus and Paul would have been reproved by the mods here, for sure.)

Can you be a child of the Devil and child of Christ at the same time?

[color:#BF0000]Matt. 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other...

[rush4hire]

@Neil D - Sorry. I wasn't trying to ignore you.

And btw, I met Jim Arrabito. I know his wife, and stayed at his mother in law home for a time and I know a couple of his good friends. We dont remember him saying what YOU are saying he says.

[Amelia]

Rush, please break your posts into parts. We have found that when a member is confronted with one very long post, they are most likely going to skim over it or pass it alltogether. You can continue your thought line, just break up the post.

Thanks

Amelia

[Woody]

Rush, please break your posts into parts. We have found that when a member is confronted with one very long post, they are most likely going to skim over it or pass it alltogether. You can continue your thought line, just break up the post.

Thanks

Amelia

[Amelia]

Red, that is off topic. If you wish to begin a new thread about the meaning of words then do so. But that has nothing to do with the topic of this thread.

Thanks

Amelia

[Woody]

Let me get this right. It is off topic to ask the definition of what someone posts?

[Amelia]

Red, I don't see where that quote is coming from or who you are quoting. It seems to be coming out of the blue. That is why it looks to be off topic.

[Woody]

Ameila ... I was just quoting Rush in the post above where he was responding to my post on loving won another.

#191334 - Yesterday at 10:27 AM Re: Was Alberto Rivera for real? Or was he a liar? [Re: Redwood]