Russia Critiques U.S.

[phkrause]

I'm not sure that that's right, but I'm probably wrong. I say that because I remember many years ago when I was going to school (High School). I had this teacher that told us that when ever traveling overseas we should exchange our money here in the US to whatever country we plan on visiting. And when coming back, to exchange our money back to US currency, in whatever country we are in. I remember him saying that as the years go by that our money will start losing its value slowly but surely, because we love to spent our money everywhere. And he said also because other countries prefer our money over there's. I never believed him, but as I reflect back it seems that he was pretty much on.

pk

[jasd]

>>...the definition of a "terrorist" nowerdays is so loosely applied,<<

Not by me :-o

>>...yet the basic original idea behind terrorism is that it "is the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion". AKA... using fear to coerce people to comply. Does that sound familiar?<<

Exactly. Roman decimations and Soviet Gulags, amongst other examples.

>>Secondly, you are talking about people as disposable containers that either hinder or advance a state.<<

In America, the State is supposed to be its citizens. Who else is the State to advance? That said, I take your point and presently see my State becoming an assortment of consortiums, conglomerates, etc. Frankly, I don’t like it – but see it as being prophesied in the Book of Daniel. I am not one to make a liar of Gd.

>>Who are you talking about when you say Korea, Vietnam, USA... These are imaginary constructs, borders of which are many times are drawn along rivers and shorelines.<<

Imaginary? Hardly. Korea and Vietnam displayed a capacity to shoot back. Imaginary constructs do not shoot back. The USA is Gd-blessed – however constructed

>>That's why the "figting terror" rhetoric is repulsive to me, because in fact it spreads terror.<<

So, when we engage radical fighting Islamists – we should invent new terminology? I’m one of those who take Jesus Christ at His word when He advises the purchase of swords/guns. I don’t subscribe to ‘doctrinal’ interpretations that He was simply wrong. Jesus Christ adjured us – not for nothing.

Breed hatred and hatred will find a target, it will find the means, and it will manifest or otherwise implement that hatred.

Sounds like Wahhabist Jihadism, tah me. ...spreading, all by itself. Now, my reaction to that, as it should be, is “spreading ‘terror’ “ – like, oh, pigs defile them? well, how about that!?

Like it or not, we are about to witness the most horrific aspects of the Clash of Civilizations – and it didn’t start with our nuking Mecca...

What’s that!?

>>Terrorism is perhaps causes less then .0001 % of deaths in the world. What ends up happening... <<

I really don’t care what percentages we talk about today. I can easily envision a coupla two-three radioactive devices set off in our major cities. Who’s gonna be talking about relative percentages at that point?

>>...by means of the media and govenmental reports and "alerts".... <<

What kind of alert preceded the USS Cole? before Twin Towers? Pentagon? ...Defcon pink? I missed that :-o

>>...terrorism looks like the cause of all "evil".<<

Much of it, at least. I don’t appreciate those who’ve exported terrorism as – witness the loss of our freedoms and the construction of concentration camps for American citizens.

Given these losses and what portends – how can one excuse the acts of International terrorism?

>>I think that Americans need to really get out and travel a bit.<<

Americans, in times past traveled very little, yet they bequeathed to us the greatest known civilization that ever graced this earth.

People generally make that statement when wishing to condescend. Would I have seen a better side of Mallik should I have more often visited Canada?

>>Then they'll see that people around the world are not as different, and are driven by the same motives and forces. Some Muslims screaming "Death to Israel" today, is not any different from some Louisiana residents screamed "death to niggers"50 years ago.<<

I think you digress. The difference is that one would be pretty well assured that the wingnut in Louisiana didn’t drive a truckload of explosives into the local shopping mall – he simply screamed and make a fool of himself.

>>And all of that was resolved eventually with no need for a war, or military intervention.<<

So, you’re equating ‘honky’ wingnuts with Wahhabi Jihadists?

>>What we have today, is America (and much of the world perhaps) getting a Televised worldview... that looks like this:<<

Sorry, I’m on dial-up.

>>Fear will only breed fear, and hate likewise will breed hate. Once upon a time US was above these tactics... now it's just a fairy tale of the past.<<

You keep dwelling upon “fear” and “hate” re America. What happened to such as: love of country, honour, Gd, duty, etc – as determining factors re Americans?

>>What's ironic, is these tactics fuel the rogue "jihadists" propaganda.<<

I recall that the Jihadist did not require our reaction before, nor do they now, nor will they in the future. Hate is bred into them from childhood.

That said, there are exemplary Islamists; however, we speak of the militants.

>>If your house gets blown up by US soldiers... would you just sit and thank them for liberating you?<<

I tire of the attempts always to lay all things awry at the doorstep of America. You forget the 19th province where this current imbroglio began? That Afghanistan is an International Community exercise?

>>I can guarantee you, that if you were in these people's shoes you will be the first one in line screaming with these radicals.<<

Good grief, where was their fervor when Saddam ruled?

>>Radical "Islam" of today is a reactionary movement,<<

Breed hatred and hatred will find a target, it will find the means, and it will manifest or otherwise implement that hatred.

You forget the many Islamists believe that Jihad is a ‘spiritual struggle’ to subjugate or rule the entire world for Allah.

How is that reactionary?

>>...just like Black panthers was a reactionary movement.<<

Go figure. Bill Cosby became the highest paid entertainer at that time. Shortly, Michael Jordan would repeat in the world of sports. Opportunities abounded. Yet we had a group of malcontents who declined to work-up the effort to succeed otherwise.

>>But, today we label the causes of such hatred as "what's good for them", and don't even try to understand these people. Our understanding comes from shredded video footage that only portrays "We hate America", and leaves out "here's why we hate America".<<

For crying out loud, we gave them (oil producing Islam) oil and money – the entire infrastructure, education, banking, protection – the whole salami. When they wanted to nationalize (read steal) the sum and results of our investments – we acquiesced to their desires. We could have buried them.

They could now be one of the greatest civilizations on earth – rather than a repository of hate.

Their choice. Sad.

[jasd]

>>It was my understanding that we basically forced the Saudis to agree to conduct all their oil business in dollars,<<

Umm, carolaa, our banks (dratted banks) approached Libya and Nigeria with a scheme to raise the price of oil – if they would sell only in dollar$. The banks first went to Libya and Nigeria because they were the world’s standard for oil pricing as the oil they produced was so pure it required almost no refining.

With deals in hand from these two countries – the banks proceeded to other oil-producing nations with the same – “we’ll help raise oil prices if you sell only in dollar$.” Well, enter OPEC and the creation of petro dollar$.

That deal enabled us to print, circulate, and eventually – deliver inflationary dollar$ offshore and kept them there.

--according to Jonathan May

such as it is.

So, we discovered oil for them, we drilled for them, we built the infrastructure - and ended up having everything nationalized. Okay.

We made them rich. What's their problem?

>>...and they can hardly wait for the dollar to die so they can start using euros.<<

Umm, a note of glee, eh? Okay.

[fccool]

For crying out loud, we gave them (oil producing Islam) oil and money – the entire infrastructure, education, banking, protection – the whole salami. When they wanted to nationalize (read steal) the sum and results of our investments – we acquiesced to their desires. We could have buried them.

??????? Are you serious???? . You can't be. USA is some odd 250 years old. The civilization as we know it began in Middle East. Are you saying that USA built middle east as we know it???? Banking is Babylonian invention. USA is merely a baby compared to a country like Iraq.

The only reason that it was possible for it to outgrow itself into an Empire, is the dollar hegemony that the rest of the world was happy to finance. There's no logical reason why labor of American farmer with same skills will be valued over labor of Chinese(Mexican,Russian and etc). But because it did, it allowed US to export the dollar and to import cheap labor in form of goods... thus letting the US to get rich, mainly due to this illusion of wealth.

Granted that USA gave many of the wonderful and great inventions, as well as people to the world.... but so did the Middle East. And to reduce the entire Middle East to a certain faith group... is what perhaps so insulting to these people in the first place.

[jasd]

Quote:

Quote:jasd

For crying out loud, we gave them (oil producing Islam) oil and money – the entire infrastructure, education, banking, protection – the whole salami. When they wanted to nationalize (read steal) the sum and results of our investments – we acquiesced to their desires. We could have buried them. [ed.jasd]

>>??????? Are you serious???? . You can't be. USA is some odd 250 years old. The civilization as we know it began in Middle East. Are you saying that USA built middle east as we know it????<<

I think the subject is still in view: to wit, the underlined and bolded in my above quote.

>>Banking is Babylonian invention.<<

You know, you are practically the only person I’ve met, read, or heard – who is aware of that fact.

>>USA is merely a baby compared to a country like Iraq.<<

That is what is so great about this country – what we’ve accomplished in that short time.

>>The only reason that it was possible for it to outgrow itself into an Empire, is the dollar hegemony that the rest of the world was happy to finance.<<

I think, that when we owned and controlled over 70% of global value – we were a hegemony. Today, we have bladder control problems. I fear what might happen when our money fails and the full faith and credit of the American people, as represented by the legal tender aspect of our money, is tested at the Hague. The combined

forces of the International Community may be at the disposal of the UN – at that time.

>>There's no logical reason why labor of American farmer with same skills will be valued over labor of Chinese(Mexican,Russian and etc).<<

Where would that determination be made?

>>But because it did, it allowed US to export the dollar and to import cheap labor in form of goods... thus letting the US to get rich, mainly due to this illusion of wealth.<<

How rich can a person get buying cheaply made Chinese goods – such as cotton shirts, sock, etc? For years, we bought the shoddiest of manufactured goods from China while we transferred our technology to them. Our machine shops. Entire airplane manufacturing plants. Intellectual properties. Patent rights. We even helped them redesign their space-launch vehicles. In return,

we opened our markets to them. Ipso... capital flight. A trillion dollar$ so far. Whilst they form alliances with nations who are overtly our enemies. ETC.

You’re right about “illusion”.

>>And to reduce the entire Middle East to a certain faith group... is what perhaps so insulting to these people in the first place.<<

But it’s factual. Have you not seen the killings of those converting from Islam? The MidEast is ONE 'exclusionary' “faith group”.

Not so fast. My larger family contains – Muslims.

[fccool]

I see many of your points. But in fact, if I'm the first person who you read that Banking originated with Babylon priesthood, then you might not be reading enough .

http://www.historyworld.net/wrldhis/PlainTextHistories.asp?historyid=ac19

The reason that money is failing and America is going broke is precisely that... it over exported money in form of loans (to china and middle east) and thus enjoyed a rich domestic economy with strong military as an expensive, yet run by borrowed money asset.

So that money that you are claiming US "bought" the middle east, was actually worthless to begin with (beginning in 1971, following the Breton Woods), just like any make believe currency that is backed up by nothing but the ability of the government to pay back. Since then, ALL of the money supply of the United States existed in form of DEBT.

Money comes into existence when the loans are made, and money is destroyed when the loans are payed back. So we have banks which prosper enormously by means of fractional reserve banking, and people who live like (and at times better) than royalty... until they can't afford to pay interest. In which case they learn from the banks to take out more loans to pay out the old ones with no hopes of paying back the debt.

As a result the national monetary supply is expanding exponentially, rendering the currency worthless because the products base and demand were not growing to catch up with exceeding money supply.

Not only I see such system as IMMORAL, because it robs its own citizens, and people of the world of their savings via inflation... But it also let US enjoy that "prosperity" over a very short period of time. I also allows a small class of people who manipulate money to grow emmencely rich by making, keeping track, and calling on loans.

You are absolutely correct about US running out of assets to put as collateral, as it already collateralized the labor of its citizens, and most of the national property, which are now not enough to even cover the interest payments on the enormous debt.

Neverless, those "assets" that US gave to the oil producing countries of Middle East, of course came with Oil being sold in dollars, which was one of the reasons that dollar took off on the international markets... and allowed US enjoy the life of "prosperity" that it enjoyed for a while. As far as I see it, you have those Islamists to thank for buying back some of that bad debt and keeping the dollar afloat for that long. Without them trading in dollars, the international market would dump the dollar much faster.

[carolaa]

What are we accomplishing here? It seems we are just pushing Bolivia to join our enemies. And for what? Because he won't do things our way? (Look up John Perkins on YouTube.)

"US Suspends Trade Benefits to Bolivia

"In news from Latin America, the Bush administration has suspended longtime trade benefits to Bolivia as tension continues to rise between the two countries. Washington cited the failure of President Evo Morales’s administration to cooperate in the so-called war on drugs as the main motivation for the move. Bolivia, Ecuador, Peru and Colombia have received duty-free status for most of their goods under a program dating to 1991 to help fight the illegal drug trade. But now Bolivia will have to pay more to get exports like textiles into the United States. Morales said Bolivia would immediately start looking for new outlets for exports.

"Evo Morales: “I’ve asked the economic team and foreign ministry to urgently open markets with China, Iran and Libya. It’s just a question of producing more and starting negotiations.”

[Democracy Now!]

[fccool]

If image is worth a thousand words...

[jasd]

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:fccool

Banking is Babylonian invention.

Quote:jasd

You know, you are practically the only person I’ve met, read, or heard – who is aware of that fact.

>>I see many of your points. But in fact, if I'm the first person who you read that Banking originated with Babylon priesthood, then you might not be reading enough .<<

Indeed. I should read more; however, you probably missed my “you are practically the only person...”. That noted, I’ve previously posted to that fact

on this forum.

Makes one wonder about the Vatican-is-Babylon bruit...

>>So that money that you are claiming US "bought" the middle east,<<

I don’t recall saying that the US “bought” the Middle East.

>>...was actually worthless to begin with (beginning in 1971, following the Breton Woods), just like any make believe currency that is backed up by nothing but the ability of the government to pay back.<<

I remember France converting dollar$ for gold – forcing Nixon to close the gold window. And I remember the dollar becoming the reserve currency of so much of the world.

>>ALL of the money supply of the United States existed in form of DEBT.<<

Largely, I agree. I would tend to emphasize the fractional aspect of debt and its velocity.

I think the fact that China remained the largest credit/debt-free population (one-sixth of global population) that American and International Banks drew her into its sphere – beginning with the Nixon Administration – and realized by the tremendous influx of Western Capital. Every dollar extended as credit went on the Bank’s digital tapes as a dollar asset enabling them to lend upwards of 90% value of that same dollar with a velocity of upwards of thirteen times a year. Good for the banks and good for those desiring to see our factories shipped overseas in return for goods better manufactured here.

Preceding, David Rockefeller made an exploratory visit to China. Returning to America, he addressed our Chambers of Commerce, manufacturers, financial groups, etc – with guarantees of a stable work force – which translated to: no strikes, no OSHA, no health benefits, no sick leave pay, no..., etc. Capitalism at its finest. Perhaps, that is why

wherever communism was established – the heavy hand of capitalism was hidden, lending that not-so-friendly push...

For example: Chiang Kai-shek had encircled Mao and was about to deliver the coup de grâce when Marshall (yes, that same Marshall of the Marshall plan of European fame), well, to paraphrase him,

“I cut that b&%#*&d off at the knees.” He did so by cutting off all ordinance and materiel – no fuel, no ammunition, no artillery shells, etc. Marshall saved Mao’s sorry fundament – ipso..., Communist China.

(Communism, in fact, is capitalism arrived; that is, the establishment of monopoly)

>>Not only I see such system as IMMORAL, because it robs its own citizens, and people of the world of their savings via inflation... But it also let US enjoy that "prosperity" over a very short period of time. I also allows a small class of people who manipulate money to grow emmencely rich by making, keeping track, and calling on loans.<<

I think one perusing Writ finds that Gd, likewise, finds such a system immoral. He made it a capital offense – and ‘Babylon’ made it a cup of abominations and filthiness...

>>Neverless, those "assets" that US gave to the oil producing countries of Middle East, of course came with Oil being sold in dollars,<<

Subsequently, yes; however, at the points of nationalization – there were no quids pro quo.

>>As far as I see it, you have those Islamists to thank for buying back some of that bad debt and keeping the dollar afloat for that long.<<

That “bad debt” is only ‘bad’ as long as it cannot be turned into hard assets and if held through its depreciating cycle too long – which is what those ‘sovereign wealth funds’ are all about.

It’s kinda like that children’s game where the ‘bad card’ keeps getting passed around. The trick is to not be the last one caught holding it.

>>Without them trading in dollars, the international market would dump the dollar much faster.<<

It is rumoured that the dollar may be split into a two-tier system – one ‘in country’ with the other never seeing our borders. Guess which one would first prove utterly worthless?

Addendum: I am somewhat dubious re the extent which the Islamic participants had in the Twin Towers bombing, the Pentagon, and the Penn field. That said, to expand requires another format.