Dr. Shane Posted October 21, 2008 Author Share Posted October 21, 2008 Hmmmm... Let's compare now with the Clinton years... Hmmm... things were pretty darn good then. OK, let's do that "throw-back" thing!! Sounds good to me! Give me another Newt Gingrich as Speaker of the House and I will be more than happy to have another Clinton in the White House. A lot of things were going on in the '90s that were beyond the control of government. The cost of energy was low. In fact, after considering inflation, the price of gasoline was cheaper in the late '90s than it had ever been since oil was first discovered. The high-tech boom also created such an extraordinary growth in wealth that revenues actually poured into the federal treasury above what the CBO had forecast. All things considered, the Bush Administration hasn't done too bad with what it was handed. Liberals will never admit that because they hate Bush. In fact, their hate probably even blinds them to the good Bush did so they can't even see it. The high-tech bubble popped before Bush took office. The economy actually showed negative growth his first quarter in office. 9/11 destroyed the stock market. The recent housing crisis is only partially Bush's fault and the causes of it run into both parties and for the most part, were filled with good intentions. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted October 21, 2008 Administrators Share Posted October 21, 2008 Spin baby, Spin!! Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted October 21, 2008 Author Share Posted October 21, 2008 OK, let me set the record straight. Bill Clinton became President during a recession. He raised taxes and managed to tax the nation into prosperity. His VP, Al Gore Jr., invented the internet which created a high-tech sector boom. Clinton's energy policy lower the price of energy to an all time low. Congress did everything he wanted. The Supreme Court did everything he wanted. The private sector did everything he wanted. He was wonderful and we were all happy. Then Bush was elected. Black clouds blocked the sun. He lowered taxes on all his rich friends and caused a recession. He blew up the WTC and the Pentagon so he could blame terrorists, start an illegal war and make his rich buddies richer. He encouraged bankers to make bad loans. Now no one has any money. The world hates us. And the sky is starting to fall. It is all Bush's fault. Now we have the record straight. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 OK, let me set the record straight. Bill Clinton became President during a recession. He raised taxes and managed to tax the nation into prosperity. His VP, Al Gore Jr., invented the internet which created a high-tech sector boom. Clinton's energy policy lower the price of energy to an all time low. Congress did everything he wanted. The Supreme Court did everything he wanted. The private sector did everything he wanted. He was wonderful and we were all happy. Then Bush was elected. Black clouds blocked the sun. He lowered taxes on all his rich friends and caused a recession. He blew up the WTC and the Pentagon so he could blame terrorists, start an illegal war and make his rich buddies richer. He encouraged bankers to make bad loans. Now no one has any money. The world hates us. And the sky is starting to fall. It is all Bush's fault. Now we have the record straight. Well, it's not what I would call "accurate" but if you, the republican are saying so, well then, it MUST be so...... Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 Originally Posted By: Tom Wetmore Hmmmm... Let's compare now with the Clinton years... Hmmm... things were pretty darn good then. OK, let's do that "throw-back" thing!! Sounds good to me! Give me another Newt Gingrich as Speaker of the House and I will be more than happy to have another Clinton in the White House. A lot of things were going on in the '90s that were beyond the control of government. The cost of energy was low. In fact, after considering inflation, the price of gasoline was cheaper in the late '90s than it had ever been since oil was first discovered. The high-tech boom also created such an extraordinary growth in wealth that revenues actually poured into the federal treasury above what the CBO had forecast. All things considered, the Bush Administration hasn't done too bad with what it was handed. Liberals will never admit that because they hate Bush. In fact, their hate probably even blinds them to the good Bush did so they can't even see it. The high-tech bubble popped before Bush took office. The economy actually showed negative growth his first quarter in office. 9/11 destroyed the stock market. The recent housing crisis is only partially Bush's fault and the causes of it run into both parties and for the most part, were filled with good intentions. I am not a liberal by any stretch of the means. Just because I agree with some of what Bush has done, and just because I don't see him in a cynical or conspiratorial light (i.e. NO he didn't cause the twin towers to crash.....help us all), there are still some serious problems with some of his decisions and the dreadful economic problems we all face in the USA currently. One can be patriotic and "conservative" without being "blind" to problems in the current administration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasd Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 Umm, one naturally expects a difference between extemporizing and teleprompterizing. Evidently, you missed the junior Senator’s Jordan uh, uh, uh interview during his ‘Get Me Creds Tour’. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasd Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 _________________________________________________ Hitler was a community organizer... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted October 22, 2008 Author Share Posted October 22, 2008 there are still some serious problems with some of [bush's] decisions and the dreadful economic problems we all face in the USA currently. One can be patriotic and "conservative" without being "blind" to problems in the current administration. I agree with that absolutely. My point has been that Bush did do a good job of pulling us out of a recession he inherited. He certainly made errors in oversight of the financial industry but he isn't alone. The Federal Reserve made errors as did both Democrats and Republicans in Congress. I happen to believe that most of these people had good intentions. They were trying to increase home ownership in the country especially among racial minorities. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted October 22, 2008 Moderators Share Posted October 22, 2008 SPIN Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolaa Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 The recent housing crisis is only partially Bush's fault and the causes of it run into both parties and for the most part, were filled with good intentions. Shane, I think you're right about a lot of this stuff starting with Clinton, because of wanting to get people into home ownership. It *was* good intentions on the part of many people, and there is plenty of blame to go around. But under GW, the problems grew exponentially. Bush had plenty of warning about how risky and shaky things were getting, including protests from all 50 attorneys general who were trying to protect the citizens of their states, and his Treasury Dept thumbed its nose at them and tied their hands so they could do nothing. And the Supreme Court sided with the Treasury Dept, so they can share in the blame, as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted October 22, 2008 Author Share Posted October 22, 2008 That is pretty weak. What is spin? Are we to believe that Bush is completely or even mostly to blame for the financial crisis? Anyone arguing that is drinking kool-aid. This crisis has roots that go back to the Carter Administration. Reagan played his part too as did Clinton and many Congressional members. And the Federal Reserve ran the value of the dollar way down via low interest rates and that undoubtedly contributed to the housing bubble. The Bush Administration did try to increase oversight of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mack. Various times. Read this AP story from the liberal-leaning Houston Chronicle. Freddie Mac arranged stealth lobbying in 2005 Quote: In the cross hairs of the campaign carried out by DCI of Washington were Republican senators and a regulatory overhaul bill sponsored by Sen. Chuck Hagel, R-Neb. DCI's chief executive is Doug Goodyear, whom John McCain's campaign later hired to manage the GOP convention in September. Freddie Mac's payments to DCI began shortly after the Senate Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs Committee sent Hagel's bill to the then GOP-run Senate on July 28, 2005. All GOP members of the committee supported it; all Democrats opposed it... "It is outrageous that a congressionally chartered government-sponsored enterprise would lobby against a member of Congress's bill that would strengthen the regulation and oversight of that institution," Buttry said in a statement. "America has paid an extremely high price for the reckless, and possibly criminal, actions of the leadership at Freddie and Fannie." Every group is to blame in the financial mess. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Jeannieb43 Posted October 22, 2008 Moderators Share Posted October 22, 2008 My point has been that Bush did do a good job of pulling us out of a recession he inherited. Eh?? What are you saying?? "A recession Bush inherited??? " The 1990s was a period of growth, of lower unemployment, and ending with a SURPLUS in the Treasury! I think you must be mistaken, Shane. Or sadly suffering amnesia when it comes to the economic strength of the USA during Clinton's presidency. Bill Clinton may have been weak in the morals, but in economics he was superb! What GWB inherited was a billion-dollar SURPLUS when he came into office, and he has now turned it into a trillion-dollar DEBT -- one on which our children and our children's children will be paying, till the Lord comes. Bush is by far the worst president in my lifetime of 70+ years. Quote Jeannie<br /><br /><br />...Change is inevitable; growth is optional.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 Oh now, Jeanie, you are gonna have to hear Shane's speech about how the economy was already in decline when George recieved it. And that he tooks steps to ease the downturn. cough cough... Of course, what Shane's biggest point is that the Federal Reserve is the problem. What he doesnt tell you is that there were two appointments to the board of governors, and both with deep pockets in two recently bailed out finacial business. Guess who appointed them? It's the ol' "fox guarding the henhouse" routine.... Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted October 22, 2008 Author Share Posted October 22, 2008 Quote: The 1990s was a period of growth, of lower unemployment, and ending with a SURPLUS in the Treasury! Yes, the 1990s were a period of growth. Due primarily to the Dot-Com Bubble. We have to remember that Bush took office in January of 2001 not January of 2000. The Dot-com bubble burst March 10, 2000. The surplus was a result of the exploding revenues caused by the dot-com bubble. Once the bubble burst the surplus vanished. However we must also note the surplus was only one year. Revenues exceeded expectations. If Congress would have expected that level of revenues to come in they would have spent more and prevented the surplus from happening. As events unfolded everyone in Washington was concerned about how to spend the surplus. Yes!!! How to spend the surplus. No one was talking about paying down the national debt. The first quarter of 2001 was the first quarter of the recession. Bush took office on January 20, 2001 so it is kind of hard to blame him for getting us into the recession. However to be fair, I don't blame Clinton either. Clinton didn't cause the dot-com bubble and although some right-wingers claim his anti-trust action against Microsoft caused it to burst, I don't buy into that. I think the value of the high-tech sector was overvalued and the market corrected itself. A lot of people lost a lot of money in the process which caused a recession. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 Thanks for setting the record straight Shane. It appears that we are 'left' with so many 'left' wingers here ... that the truth gets 'left'-behind. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Nan Posted October 22, 2008 Moderators Share Posted October 22, 2008 Thanks for setting the record straight Shane. It appears that we are 'left' with so many 'left' wingers here ... that the truth gets 'left'-behind. And of course the right wingers are always right? (For the record, TIC!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 No TIC needed. The right is Right. Praise the Lord ... Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRyan Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 Ahhh yes -- wouldn't you know that the subject of right vs wrong would come up again. Bob Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRyan Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 _________________________________________________ Hitler was a community organizer... Do you say this to deminish the work of Al Capone or ACORN? Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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