I Voted - Have You?

[Dr. Shane]

Early voting has started. For those that are willing to share who they voted for, let's feel free to discuss it here.

I voted for Obama for President for the following reasons:

Universal Health Care. I believe that health care should be a right. I believe many people do not go for their check-ups and screenings because they either don’t have health insurance or their co-pays and deductibles make it too costly. The Republicans will not do what needs to be done. This point in time offers of a unique opportunity with a Democratic controlled Congress to make this happen. Bill Clinton’s biggest failure was not passing universal health care. I expect Obama will not hand this to his wife to handle.

Economic Stimulus: I support the overall idea of Obama’s economic stimulus proposal. The odds and ends will need to be fine tuned buy overall I think it will make a positive impact on the economy.

Diplomacy: Powell’s endorsement of Obama made me feel much better about Obama’s worldview regarding how to deal with our enemies. Obama has pledged to support Israel and I don’t expect that to change. He may be able to have some success with Iran and Russia where the current Administration hasn’t and be able to build on the successes of the current Administration in areas like Africa, Latin America and North Korea.

Character: While Obama certainly has his own set of character defects, after examining both candidates I feel more comfortable with Obama’s character than that of McCain’s. If it was Obama verses Palin, I would feel better with Palin. But I have to look at the top of the ticket. I can’t vote for someone and hope they die while in office. While Obama is wet-behind-the-ears and that inexperience does make him a higher risk than McCain, I feel character trumps experience.

Family Unit: I like how Obama interacts with his wife and children. I like the fact that he sets one day aside each week to spend just with them. I think they will be a fine role model in the White House for other American families to follow.

Turtle On A Post: The only way a turtle can get on a post is if someone puts him there. The unlikely chain of events that has placed Obama in the position to be President seems to have only been possible by divine intervention. Obama was a little known state senator. He won his seat in the US Senate almost by pure luck. His Republican opponent in 2004 imploded which virtually handed the seat to Obama. Then, still wet behind the ears, he decided to run for the nomination against the Clinton machine and the Democratic establishment. David didn’t defeat Goliath without divine intervention and I don’t believe Obama beat the Clintons without divine intervention either. If God has actually opened these windows for Obama, I certainly want to see what He has in store.

There are a some things I don’t like about Obama.

Judicial Philosophy: Obama believes in an activist Supreme Court. This view allows for the Constitution to be interpreted as a “living document” which means the meaning can change over time. For Adventists that means that the establishment and free exercise clause of the First Amendment could be reinterpreted by a group of judges that disagree with our founders. That can be a bit scary, I admit.

Class Envy: Obama plays with class envy a lot. The idea of taxing the rich and giving their money to the poor does not set well with me. I believe that is an immoral policy.

There are also a few reasons I am not voting for McCain.

Deadlock: If McCain is elected with a Democrat congress they will do everything to prevent him from accomplishing anything just as they have with Bush. The Democrats in Congress are not concerned about the good of America. They are only concerned with aquiring more power. Because of that I do not think McCain would be an effective President.

Character: McCain is not a man that has been outspoken in matters regarding faith or family values. I don’t think he has bad character but comparing him to Obama, I am a little more impressed with Obama. I was also not impressed by McCain’s appearance in the movie “Wedding Crashers”. I thought that was in poor taste and showed poor judgment.

Dan Quayle Factor: The media hated Dan Quayle because he preferred to spend time with his family rather than at the media’s social gatherings. He was an excellent VP, intelligent and very qualified but was destroyed by the media. I believe that if Palin becomes VP the media will do the same to her and that unless McCain dies, she will never be President. If McCain loses, Plain can run for the US Senate or a second term as Alaskan governor and later be in a position to run for the Republican nomination for President herself and be on the top of the ticket.

On the congressional side of the ballot I voted for the Republican candidate for US Senate and the Democrat candidate for the House of Representatives.

Now if Obama wins I hope he and Michelle do Christmas right at the White House. That includes, of course, videos on whitehouse.gov that we can watch like President Bush has done.

[Woody]

I have nothin to say.

[Norman Byers, N.D.]

Hi Shane,

Here's what you'll get from an Obama Presidency.

Taxes Taxes Taxes on everyone. That is and has recently been the Dems way. He'll tell you he won't raise taxes but if he gets elected he'll change his mind because he'll have no choice. I believe he will blame Bush for the state that we are in; But yet the whole world is in a crisis.

Loss of rights.

Health care fashioned after failing models (Cuba, Canada, UK?)

Abortion: remember. Thou shalt not kill???

Job loss, from companies leaving to avoid the high taxes

Welfare to keep the poor voting for them resulting in more broken families, because the man has lost his sense of value.

Crime:

The destruction of the American way, Freedom will slowly be taken away.

The judgments of God will follow

The Sunday law (House, Senate & Prez will be Dems) When Obama is "tested" and the people cry for help what will he do? He won't go to war. Libs don't do war they have peace rallies. Peace, peace and then....)

Read Joe Biden's words and ask yourself if it's possisble that he is referring to a Sunday Law"

"I can give you at least four or five scenarios from where it might originate," Biden said to Emerald City supporters, mentioning the Middle East and Russia as possibilities. "And he's (Obama) gonna need help. And the kind of help he's gonna need is, he's gonna need you - not financially to help him - we're gonna need you to use your influence, your influence within the community, to stand with him. Because it's not gonna be apparent initially, it's not gonna be apparent that we're right."

(Think about it; if McCain wins, he can't bring in a Sunday Law. EGW says it would be the legislative and judicial branches that will bring in the Sunday law.

"The lamb-like horns and dragon voice of the symbol point to a striking contradiction between the professions and the practice of the nation thus represented. The "speaking" of the nation is the action of its legislative and judicial authorities.... And the statement that the beast with two horns "causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast," indicates that the authority of this nation is to be exercised in enforcing some observance which shall be an act of homage to the papacy." GC 442

When we were young, most of us could spot a liar in a minute, what happened to us? Have we compromised with sin so much that we have no discernment?

Shane said.

Quote:

The unlikely chain of events that has placed Obama in the position to be President seems to have only been possible by divine intervention.

Or Divine withdrawal

Norman

[Woody]

I still ain't sayin nuthin.

My lips are sealed.

Perhaps this is the sealing you all have been waiting for.

[Dr. Shane]

Quote:

Here's what you'll get from an Obama Presidency...

Health care fashioned after failing models (Cuba, Canada, UK?)

I hope so. Thanks for that reassurance.

Quote:

Abortion

The best way to stop abortion is by supporting organizations like Care Net. These are pregnancy crisis centers. I financially support them. Those that do not are not in a position to lecture me about abortion.

Quote:

Job loss, from companies leaving to avoid the high taxes

I am sure we will have some of that. But I am willing to give Obama a chance and see if he can't get the economy to generate more jobs than it loses.

Quote:

The Sunday law

When the "angel of light" appears to deceive the world I don't think it is going to matter who is in the White House.

[Bravus]

You have my respect (as always) Shane - not because you've voted as I would have, but because you've taken the responsibility to inform yourself of the candidates' positions on all the issues, and can lay out as clearly as you have above your reasons for voting as you have. I'm confident that if every American citizen did the same the country would be in good hands and a good state.

[Bravus]

And I'd like to encourage anyone else who posts in this thread to lay out their positive reasons for voting *for* the person they chose, rather than only their fear of the alternative.

[Woody]

HEY ALL

YES I DID VOTE in the early election time period

I VOTED for a 3rd party candidate

I HAVE VOTED for a 3rd party candidate

for the last 5 elections now

dgrimm60

Would that be Paris Hilton? I understand she has quite the following for her 3rd party campaign.

[Taylor]

Early voting has started. For those that are willing to share who they voted for, let's feel free to discuss it here.

I voted for Obama for President for the following reasons:

Universal Health Care. I believe that health care should be a right. I believe many people do not go for their check-ups and screenings because they either don’t have health insurance or their co-pays and deductibles make it too costly. The Republicans will not do what needs to be done. This point in time offers of a unique opportunity with a Democratic controlled Congress to make this happen. Bill Clinton’s biggest failure was not passing universal health care. I expect Obama will not hand this to his wife to handle.

Economic Stimulus: I support the overall idea of Obama’s economic stimulus proposal. The odds and ends will need to be fine tuned buy overall I think it will make a positive impact on the economy.

Diplomacy: Powell’s endorsement of Obama made me feel much better about Obama’s worldview regarding how to deal with our enemies. Obama has pledged to support Israel and I don’t expect that to change. He may be able to have some success with Iran and Russia where the current Administration hasn’t and be able to build on the successes of the current Administration in areas like Africa, Latin America and North Korea.

Character: While Obama certainly has his own set of character defects, after examining both candidates I feel more comfortable with Obama’s character than that of McCain’s. If it was Obama verses Palin, I would feel better with Palin. But I have to look at the top of the ticket. I can’t vote for someone and hope they die while in office. While Obama is wet-behind-the-ears and that inexperience does make him a higher risk than McCain, I feel character trumps experience.

Family Unit: I like how Obama interacts with his wife and children. I like the fact that he sets one day aside each week to spend just with them. I think they will be a fine role in the White House for other American families to follow.

Turtle On A Post: The only way a turtle can get on a post is if someone puts him there. The unlikely chain of events that has placed Obama in the position to be President seems to have only been possible by divine intervention. Obama was a little known state senator. He won his seat in the US Senate almost by pure luck. His Republican opponent in 2004 imploded which virtually handed the seat to Obama. Then, still wet behind the ears, he decided to run for the nomination against the Clinton machine and the Democratic establishment. David didn’t defeat Goliath without divine intervention and I don’t believe Obama beat the Clintons without divine intervention either. If God has actually opened these windows for Obama, I certainly want to see what He has in store.

There are a some things I don’t like about Obama.

Judicial Philosophy: Obama believes in an activist Supreme Court. This view allows for the Constitution to be interpreted as a “living document” which means the meaning can change over time. For Adventists that means that the establishment and free exercise clause of the First Amendment could be reinterpreted by a group of judges that disagree with our founders. That can be a bit scary, I admit.

Class Envy: Obama plays with class envy a lot. The idea of taxing the rich and giving their money to the poor does not set well with me. I believe that is an immoral policy.

There are also a few reasons I am not voting for McCain.

Deadlock: If McCain is elected with a Democrat congress they will do everything to prevent him from accomplishing anything just as they have with Bush. The Democrats in Congress are not concerned about the good of America. They are only concerned with aquiring more power. Because of that I do not think McCain would be an effective President.

Character: McCain is not a man that has been outspoken in matters regarding faith or family values. I don’t think he has bad character but comparing him to Obama, I am a little more impressed with Obama. I was also not impressed by McCain’s appearance in the movie “Wedding Crashers”. I thought that was in poor taste and showed poor judgment.

Dan Quayle Factor: The media d Dan Quayle because he preferred to spend time with his family rather than at the media’s social gatherings. He was an excellent VP, intelligent and very qualified but was destroyed by the media. I believe that if Palin becomes VP the media will do the same to her and that unless McCain dies, she will never be President. If McCain loses, Plain can run for the US Senate or a second term as Alaskan governor and later be in a position to run for the Republican nomination for President herself and be on the top of the ticket.

On the congressional side of the ballot I voted for the Republican candidate for US Senate and the Democrat candidate for the House of Representatives.

Now if Obama wins I hope he and Michelle do Christmas right at the White House. That includes, of course, videos on whitehouse.gov that we can watch like President Bush has done.

I appreciate your well-thought-out reasons. I am not sure I agree with you on every point but I do appreciate your candidness and honesty in your assessment of the situation.

[carolaa]

When we were young, most of us could spot a liar in a minute, what happened to us? Have we compromised with sin so much that we have no discernment?

I guess so. Let's see....

Taxes - it was a Republican who made the words "read my lips" famous. I guess he was lying. Republicans raise taxes and make new ones just as easily as Democrats.

Loss of rights - wow, like we haven't lost a bunch with this administration. Let's not have more of that, please.

Abortion - I was thinking we already had that.

Job loss - I think we already have that too. And it will get worse, no matter who is elected.

Health care - well, I'm not sure what the answer is there, but I don't know how other countries' models could be failing any worse than our own.

Crime - I think that's here to stay and will probably get worse. We can only hope there won't be so much of it coming out of the oval office.

[Dr. Shane]

Quote:

it was a Republican who made the words "read my lips" famous. I guess he was lying. Republicans raise taxes and make new ones just as easily as Democrats.

It was President George H. W. Bush who gave in to a Democratic Congress. It was because of that that he lost my vote in his re-election bid. Make no doubt about it, it was the Democratic Congress that pushed that bill and the President that gave in.

Unfortunately I don't think either of the candidates running for President today have the character of steel that the current occupant has. The reason President G.W. Bush's ratings are so low is because he is a man of principle that refuses to allow the polls to influence how he governs. His dad wasn't that kind of a man.

[carolaa]

Character of steel is a nice way to put it. I can think of some other words that I might use instead, but I don't feel like going there today.

[Woody]

Quote:

it was a Republican who made the words "read my lips" famous. I guess he was lying. Republicans raise taxes and make new ones just as easily as Democrats.

It was President George H. W. Bush who gave in to a Democratic Congress. It was because of that that he lost my vote in his re-election bid. Make no doubt about it, it was the Democratic Congress that pushed that bill and the President that gave in.

Unfortunately I don't think either of the candidates running for President today have the character of steel that the current occupant has. The reason President G.W. Bush's ratings are so low is because he is a man of principle that refuses to allow the polls to influence how he governs. His dad wasn't that kind of a man.

[BobRyan]

As in the 1800's the moral issues outweigh the political ones in this debate.

But there is no Ellen White around telling us to "vote on Sabbath" to promote the right moral values -- as there was in the 1800's.

Still the Review Article "How would Ellen White Vote" was instructive.

in Christ,

Bob

[Neil D]

It was President George H. W. Bush who gave in to a Democratic Congress. It was because of that that he lost my vote in his re-election bid. Make no doubt about it, it was the Democratic Congress that pushed that bill and the President that gave in.

I am reminded of the altered phrase, when a democrat is right, no one remembers. When a democrat is wrong, no one forgets.

And "no", that is not the way it always is...

[Dr. Shane]

I think taxes did need to be raised since no one was interested in cutting spending. In that, I don't think either Pres. George H. W. Bush or Congress was "wrong". It was just foolish for Bush to make such a promise and later break it. Many economists believe the tax increase caused the recession that cost Bush his re-election. In that respect, for him, it was most likely a mistake.

[Neil D]

As I said-

Quote:

when a democrat is right, no one remembers. When a democrat is wrong, no one forgets.

[Woody]

Poor Boy. Cryin over spilt milk.

[Neil D]

Poor Boy. Cryin over spilt milk.

Hmmmmmm....Just wait...I will get to rub a few stats in your face in a couple of years....ones that you won't like to hear...

[Woody]

Is that a threat?

[Neil D]

Is that a threat?

Heck no...it IS a promise, though..... :smile:

[Norman Byers, N.D.]

Hi Carolaa

Quote:

Taxes - it was a Republican who made the words "read my lips" famous. I guess he was lying. Republicans raise taxes and make new ones just as easily as Democrats.

Just one president. What about the countless Dems? That's just not good enough to prove your point. With the Liberals, it is a way of life. Not so with conservatives. Obama says he won't raise taxes on small busineses that make under 250K per year. Then he says that it will be capital gains taxes. That's smooth!!! We don't pay capital gains taxes unless you sell your business and make a profit!! What good is that?

Quote:

Loss of rights - wow, like we haven't lost a bunch with this administration. Let's not have more of that, please.

What loss of rights have you personally lost Carolaa? You are not aware of what is about to happen if Obama gets in; and when it does you'll know what it means to loose rights. The first one he's told us about is taht I will be fined if I don't provide insurance for my employees. I am the only one in my business right now but would like to expand as soon as work picks up. I can't afford to pay anyone's heatlh insurance so I won't be able to hire anyone. That's a loss of right in that basically I'm force to pay for someone else's insurance if I want to expand.

Quote:

Abortion - I was thinking we already had that.

We don't have partial birth abortion which he is in favor of. Just because it's allowed now that doesn't give you the right to say it's ok, unless you don't believe in "thou shalt not kill" If you think it's ok to kill un born babies then vote for him but you willhave to answer to God for that. Thereis no escaping that, period. It's you salvation you're playing with; over what??? Because you like him??

Quote:

Job loss - I think we already have that too. And it will get worse, no matter who is elected.

Wait to see the companies leave if he gets elected. The stock market right now is going crazy because of the lead that he gets. When hes ahead the market goes down when McCain is in the lead it goes up. Fact and not fiction: Corporations and investors know that if Obama gets in their taxes are going to go up. Learn the facts.

Quote:

Health care - well, I'm not sure what the answer is there, but I don't know how other countries' models could be failing any worse than our own.

yes something need to be done but not Obama's plan as it will result in raised taxes. I'm Canadian and will tell you that the system there is broken down dues to mismanagement and fraud. My step mom had to have surgery on her knee and she had to wait 3 months till she could get in. Many of the Canadian are coming to the US to have their medical work done because they can't wait in line.

Here's an example. Before I knew the Lord I would go to the Dr. and sit in the waiting room for hours till I saw him or her. Then I'd tell him I have some pain. Then I'd tell him I needed a note for work so I could get paid. I got it took the rest of the day off and nothing was said or done. Even if my boss new he couldn't do a thing about it because I had a Drs note. That's just one example.

That goes on all the time and it cost nothing. Now if I had to pay I would not do that. What we need in the US is a preventative approach. As SDAs we should be in the forefront of this and in a lot of places we are.

Quote:

Crime - I think that's here to stay and will probably get worse. We can only hope there won't be so much of it coming out of the oval office.

You're right it is here to stay but will get worse. But when you start to take money from others and give it to the poor it demorallizes the father. (Black families especially - that's why there's some much crime there) The father is not needed or appreciated because the mother gets all the money from welfare and more as she has more children. What kind of incetive is that to better yourself or to go out and get a job if all this money is freely given. Temporarilly I say yes, but not as a way of life!

You did not mention anything abou the Sunday law. What are you thoughts about that? just curios.

Norman

[Woody]

Good Post Norman.

We just can't afford an Obama president.

Listen to Norman ... Carolaa. Listen to him.

I hope you read his post carefully.

I will look forward to reading your response.

[Neil D]

And when all those things do NOT come true, Norm...will you admit to being wrong about Obama?

[Woody]

Norman will NOT be wrong. He knows that of which he speaketh.

We just can NOT afford Obama. Period. End of story.

BTW ... It is good to have Norman speaking up on political topics. I appreciate it anyways.