I Voted - Have You?

[Neil D]

And when all those Norman predictions do NOT come true during Obama's presidency, will you also appologize for making false predictions?

[Woody]

I'm just observin ... The fight is between you and Norman. I'm just holding Norman's coat .

[Neil D]

There is no fight....

And I ain't letting you off the hook that easy, either....

Will you appologize for making false predictions at the end of Obama's presidency?

Your appology I will be eagarly looking forward to.....

[Woody]

I made no predictions. That was my friend Norman.

[Neil D]

Norman will NOT be wrong. He knows that of which he speaketh.

That was a prediction...

You loose......

[Woody]

I am not 'loose'.

But I may loose my wrath on you ...

I never clarified as to what Norman was right about. I didn't say that everything he spoke of was right. What prediction are you referring to? All I can say is that Norman knows much about what he speaketh. If you want to refer to a specific prediction ... let's talk. BEE specific man.

[Neil D]

I am not 'loose'.

[Norman Byers, N.D.]

Hi Neil,

I can admit I am wrong if I am wrong and I wish I was wrong but you can tell a tree by its fruit and he has plenty of it that is already available to see.

But you'll have to wait till November 4th 2012.

[carolaa]

Obama says he won't raise taxes on small busineses that make under 250K per year. Then he says that it will be capital gains taxes. That's smooth!!! We don't pay capital gains taxes unless you sell your business and make a profit!! What good is that?

Capital gains tax is what the rich people have to pay when they sell their 2nd & 3rd homes. Most people who make under $250K never pay capital gains.

What loss of rights have you personally lost Carolaa? You are not aware of what is about to happen if Obama gets in; and when it does you'll know what it means to loose rights. The first one he's told us about is taht I will be fined if I don't provide insurance for my employees.

How about loss of privacy? Every phone call out of the country is potentially bugged.

And that insurance fine is just not true, so let's stick with stuff that's true.

[We don't have partial birth abortion which he is in favor of.

Again - not true.

Quote:

Job loss - I think we already have that too. And it will get worse, no matter who is elected.

Wait to see the companies leave if he gets elected. The stock market right now is going crazy because of the lead that he gets. When hes ahead the market goes down when McCain is in the lead it goes up. Fact and not fiction: Corporations and investors know that if Obama gets in their taxes are going to go up. Learn the facts.

Doesn't matter. I stand by my statement. It will get worse no matter who is president.

I didn't answer it because I don't know what you are basing that fear on. Your whole post seems to be based on a bunch of fear and not a lot of fact.

[Taylor]

The Sunday Law is going to happen in God's timing no matter who is in power. I think that both ultra liberal and ultra conservatives have the capability, under the right circumstances, to enforce anything to keep peace or to promote their agenda in times of national crisis.

[Norman Byers, N.D.]

Quote:

Capital gains tax is what the rich people have to pay when they sell their 2nd & 3rd homes. Most people who make under $250K never pay capital gains.

it is what everyone pays not just rich. My point was that he said and I heard him say it that small businesses will not pay capital gains taxes and the context was I will not raise taxes. He was saying that to confuse ignorant people who no nothing about taxes to think that "See he's not going to raise taxes on small businesses" when there is no such tax to start with. That was a diliberate lie.

Quote:

How about loss of privacy? Every phone call out of the country is potentially bugged.

And that insurance fine is just not true, so let's stick with stuff that's true.

I did not say a loss of privacy you are changint the parameters of this point. I said what rights have you personally lost? NO not every phone call is potentially bugged. That's not possible there's just not enough people to do that. It's every phone call that brings up key words and those who are suspects of poltting terror against you and me. I can live with that.

As or the insurance fine, your boy said it himself in the last debate. McCain was trying to get him to tell us how much the fine would be. This is fact.

Quote:

[We don't have partial birth abortion which he is in favor of. Again - not true.

Not True??? What in the world have you been reading? Are you so enamered with this guy that you don't hear what he is saying and what he has voted on in the past and will in the future?

Quote:

In the Pennsylvania primary, Barack Obama rolled up more than 90 percent of the African-American vote. Among Catholics, he lost by 40 points. The cool liberal Harvard Law grad was not a good fit for the socially conservative ethnics of Altoona, Aliquippa and Johnstown.

But if Barack had a problem with Catholics then, he has a far higher hurdle to surmount in the fall, with those millions of Catholics who still take their faith and moral code seriously.

[color:#000000]What about you Carolla?

For not only is Barack the most pro-abortion member of the Senate, with his straight A+ report card from the National Abortion Rights Action League and Planned Parenthood. He supports the late-term procedure known as partial-birth abortion, where the baby's skull is stabbed with scissors in the birth canal and the brains are sucked out to end its life swiftly and ease passage of the corpse into the pan.

Quote:

Doesn't matter. I stand by my statement. It will get worse no matter who is president.

No it will get worse if Obama is in power, because of abortion that he promotes and believe in. Those who vote for him are sinning in this matter, no matter how good he sounds or what he promises. This is what will more crime, a disregard for the laws of God, by agreeing with and possibly expanding the death of God's inoccent children. In case you've forgotten how serious this is read the following. But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea. Matthew 18:6

Quote:

I didn't answer it because I don't know what you are basing that fear on. Your whole post seems to be based on a bunch of fear and not a lot of fact.

Fear??? try the signs of the times. Wake up Carolaa don't you see what is going on in the world? The less time we have the less people will be reached and lost. That's not a fear that's reality as are all the points I have made. Vote in Obama and partake of his sins and you put yourself in danger of being lost. That's what I would be afraid of if I were you.

Norman

[Norman Byers, N.D.]

Quote:

The Sunday Law is going to happen in God's timing no matter who is in power.

Hi Taylor,

read the following statement. I believe it does matter who's in office and what we do to prevent those who will bring evil and destruction upon this land, from taking control. individulaay we must vote our conscience that is governed by God's law. I believe every vote will be noted in heaven. God will listen to His people. Remember Moses when he prayed for mercy for the children of Israel?

Quote:

Ellen G. White Estate

Prayer (2002), page 274, paragraph 3

Chapter Title: Chapter 28 - Prayer in the Last Days 275

The prophet saw "four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree." Another angel, ascending from the east, cried to them, saying: "Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads." This points out the work we have now to do. A vast responsibility is devolving upon men and women of prayer throughout the land to petition that God will sweep back the cloud of evil and give a few more years of grace in which to work for the Master. Let us cry to God that the angels may hold the four winds until missionaries shall be sent to all parts of the world and shall proclaim the warning against disobeying the law of Jehovah.--(Testimonies for the Church, vol. 5, 717, 718.)

Norman

[Taylor]

My point wasn't to not follow your conscience. I believe you should vote your conscience. However, I also think that both conservatives and liberals alike can be used by the devil to bring in laws to tie the hands of sincere Christians to believe and worship the way they choose.

However, I do agree, that it isn't trying to be a fear instigator to say that the signs of the second coming seem to be dramatically increasing lately throughout much more than just this election. This world is in a heap of trouble.

[Woody]

Quote:

Wake up Carolaa don't you see what is going on in the world?

Vote in Obama and partake of his sins and you put yourself in danger of being lost. That's what I would be afraid of if I were you.

Now we are getting some where. Things are heatin up as we get close to the Nov.4

Oh my oh my. The heat in the kitchen is getting warm. No HOT.

Do we have a rebuttal Carol? Let's keep things movin. Time is short.

[Neil D]

Fear??? try the signs of the times. Wake up Carolaa don't you see what is going on in the world? The less time we have the less people will be reached and lost. That's not a fear that's reality as are all the points I have made. Vote in Obama and partake of his sins and you put yourself in danger of being lost. That's what I would be afraid of if I were you.Norman

Norm,

sorry, but tain't gonna happen....

Ain't gonna give you any reasons, as it will do no good. Your mind is made up and I expect that only the reality of what is gonna happen will show you that you are wrong....But I will remind you in 3 years to see if it is going to go as you say.....

....and I will expect your appology in 4.... :smile:

Oh, and Norm, see that above paragraph that you posted, and that part that I underlined?

That is nothing more than fear...God don't deal in fear...He reasons and he requests...It's his followers that deal with fear....and they are always wrong....

[Norman Byers, N.D.]

Hi Taylor,

I see what you're saying. My point was that while either party can bring about the Sunday law (as you said) I believe that this time around it will be the Demcrats. I have mentioned this to Neil before, but it was concerning Hilary Clinton-(Whom I believe is not out of the picture yet).

The Republicans would probably have no problem passing a Sunday law. But the Democrats will not have anything to do with it. But there is a time coming when they will be pressured to do so and and they will. If the republicans are in power and a Sunday law is introduced who do you think will oppose it tooth and nail? It would be bogged down for years.

My point is, because of politics the Democrats will be the ones to bring it in and I see that it will happen this time if they get in. They'll have all that they need to do so vote wise and if the Judicial branch or the republicans for that matter, get in their way, they will change the constitution.

Norman

I should have been clearer

[Norman Byers, N.D.]

Hey Neil,

I can't see how or where in the Bible or SOP that we are couselled/commanded to vote for those who support killing unborn children.

How can a child of God do that? Some of the other issues can be overlooked and I could live with, but not that. I am not accusing anyone (so that you understand what I am saying) but making an observation followed by my right to inquire of those who defend Mr. Obama's position on this matter.

Norman

[Norman Byers, N.D.]

Quote:

Now we are getting some where. Things are heatin up as we get close to the Nov.4

Oh my oh my. The heat in the kitchen is getting warm. No HOT.

Do we have a rebuttal Carol? Let's keep things movin. Time is short.

Come on Redwood, you little instigator Lets be nice

[Woody]

Yep. That would be ME !!!

[carolaa]

The Sunday Law is going to happen in God's timing no matter who is in power. I think that both ultra liberal and ultra conservatives have the capability, under the right circumstances, to enforce anything to keep peace or to promote their agenda in times of national crisis.

I totally agree with you. Both parties are corrupt and equally capable of bringing about the Sunday law. In fact, I tend to believe the Republicans are a lot more capable of it than the Democrats. Particularly the way GW has been working toward taking away our freedoms already.

[carolaa]

Quote:

Capital gains tax is what the rich people have to pay when they sell their 2nd & 3rd homes. Most people who make under $250K never pay capital gains.

it is what everyone pays not just rich. Technically, you're right, of course. But in reality, capital gains is not something poor people or lower middle class people pay. It is a tax on the wealthy.

My point was that he said and I heard him say it that small businesses will not pay capital gains taxes and the context was I will not raise taxes. He was saying that to confuse ignorant people who no nothing about taxes to think that "See he's not going to raise taxes on small businesses" when there is no such tax to start with. That was a diliberate lie. I doubt it. People who are in business, or people who are upper middle class and above, have a good understanding of what the capital gains tax is all about.

Quote:

How about loss of privacy? Every phone call out of the country is potentially bugged.

And that insurance fine is just not true, so let's stick with stuff that's true.

I did not say a loss of privacy you are changint the parameters of this point. I said what rights have you personally lost? NO not every phone call is potentially bugged. That's not possible there's just not enough people to do that. It's every phone call that brings up key words and those who are suspects of poltting terror against you and me. I can live with that.

Actually, the calls are being recorded and archived. They are recording calls that soldiers make to and from their families - everything - and archiving them. They have already run out of room at Fort Bragg and are building a new facility in San Antonio to store more recordings.

As or the insurance fine, your boy said it himself in the last debate. McCain was trying to get him to tell us how much the fine would be. This is fact. No, it was McCain who said Obama would fine people, and Obama denied it.

Quote:

[We don't have partial birth abortion which he is in favor of. Again - not true.

Not True??? What in the world have you been reading? Are you so enamered with this guy that you don't hear what he is saying and what he has voted on in the past and will in the future? Show me one instance where Obama said he is in favor of any kind of abortion, much less partial birth abortion. What he HAS said is that he wants to promote policies to reduce abortions. He has voted against many bills that didn't have provisions, oversight, etc. that he felt were necessary. I appreciate that he does not just vote willy nilly for political reasons.

Quote:

Doesn't matter. I stand by my statement. It will get worse no matter who is president.

No it will get worse if Obama is in power, because of abortion that he promotes and believe in. Those who vote for him are sinning in this matter, no matter how good he sounds or what he promises. That is pure hypothesis, and I don't agree with it.

Quote:

I didn't answer it because I don't know what you are basing that fear on. Your whole post seems to be based on a bunch of fear and not a lot of fact.

Fear??? try the signs of the times. Wake up Carolaa don't you see what is going on in the world? The less time we have the less people will be reached and lost. That's not a fear that's reality as are all the points I have made. Vote in Obama and partake of his sins and you put yourself in danger of being lost. That's what I would be afraid of if I were you. Oh, yes! I certainly can see what we are doing in the world, and it disgusts me. I can see our freedoms being taken away. I can see the collapse of the western world's financial system. That's all a huge reason why I am voting for change.

[carolaa]

I can't see how or where in the Bible or SOP that we are couselled/commanded to vote for those who support killing unborn children.

I don't get it with the anti-choice people. Why must a vote for choice always mean a support for abortion? It is so not true, and really a twist to think so.

[carolaa]

Quote:

Wake up Carolaa don't you see what is going on in the world?

Vote in Obama and partake of his sins and you put yourself in danger of being lost. That's what I would be afraid of if I were you.

Now we are getting some where. Things are heatin up as we get close to the Nov.4

Oh my oh my. The heat in the kitchen is getting warm. No HOT.

Do we have a rebuttal Carol? Let's keep things movin. Time is short.

What I am really afraid of is getting another helping of the same thing we've had for 8 years. That would be unconscionable. I'm sorry, I can't overlook that. I would far rather have someone who wants to reduce abortions than go with a continued Bush Doctrine and other atrocities we are doing in the world. I don't for a second believe God is overlooking that, and I don't want to be guilty of voting for it.

[Neil D]

Originally Posted By: Norman

I can't see how or where in the Bible or SOP that we are couselled/commanded to vote for those who support killing unborn children.

I don't get it with the anti-choice people. Why must a vote for choice always mean a support for abortion? It is so not true, and really a twist to think so.

It's because they are "bent", Carolaa. They can not see the real argument and can not make distinctions accurately. Real people think, and real people KNOW that life is not always black and white, good or bad, Adventist or non-Adventist, Christian or Anti-Christian.Occasionally, it is....but mostly, it is NOT...and as a result, they can not reason out the problem....They live in a box and when problems come outside the box, they attempt to move the boundarys or redefine the boundarys.

Don't ask me why, as I sure don't know.....

[Norman Byers, N.D.]

Quote:

I don't get it with the anti-choice people. Why must a vote for choice always mean a support for abortion? It is so not true, and really a twist to think so.

Before I go any further discussing these issues with you I must ask, Are you a Christian? The reason I ask is because if you are not then I will cease talking to you about this and try to help you see the Lord. If you are then I will continue.

But I will reply to this comment

Quote:

I don't get it with the anti-choice people. Why must a vote for choice always mean a support for abortion? It is so not true, and really a twist to think so.

Lets look at it this way. If I sacrificed children and thought it was ok because of my religion. What would you think? Would you support me if I wanted to be president? I would say it's not all the time only a few times a year and it will be only my own kids so you don't have to worry.

Even the death of one child supported by anyone is murder. Likewise so is giving someone the choice to kill taht which belings to God only and is given as a gift and for them to give them back to the Lord well trained loving the Lord.

I'll get back on the other stuff when I get back home from prayer meeting.

Norman