Dr. Samuele Bacchiocchi's Newsletter-- Reflections on the Candidates

[John317]

This is being posted simply to stimulate reflection and discussion. It is obviously only Dr. Bacchiochi's personal opinion.

REFLECTIONS ON THE FORTHCOMING PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION

- Dr. Samuele Bacchiocchi -

For the first time in my life this year I will have the privilege to vote in a presidential election. I never voted in Italy because I left the country when I was too young to vote. Moreover I would never have known for whom to vote, since there are over a dozen political parties to choose from.

Now that I have the opportunity to vote, I must confess that I am confused, because I find strengths and weaknesses in both the democratic and republican party. Let me share my reflections of John McCain and Barak Obama.

Positive and Negative Aspects of John McCain

What I like about John McCain is his stand for the fundamental biblical teachings on the sanctity of life and sacredness of marriage. McCain believes that the life of the unborn baby must be protected from conception and marriage is the union of a man and a woman, not of two men or two women. Moreover I understand that McCain supports prayer, Bible, and the teaching of religion in public school.

The problem that I see in McCain's stand for fundamental moral, biblical principles, is his support that comes mostly from conservative Protestants and Catholics. Historically conservative Christians have been very intolerant. They have not hesitated to persecute and suppress Christians who held different religious beliefs.

During breakfast this morning I heard on FOX NEWS a live interview with a very articulated Catholic priest. He made it abundantly clear that Catholics cannot and should not vote for an 'evil' presidential candidate that rejects the fundaments Catholic religious beliefs of the sanctity of life from conception and the sacredness of marriage. He labeled as 'evil' a candidate that rejects such beliefs.

As Adventists we should be concerned about electing a US president supported by ultra conservative Christians who could eventually press for their religious agenda, by restricting the religious freedom of minorities who oppose some of their policies. We must not forget that religious persecution has been carried out by fanatical Christians, not by liberals.

Positive and Negative Aspects of Barack Obama

What I like about Barack Obama is his concern for the lower class people, unable to get a good education, health insurance, and good paying jobs. I am not sure about the validity of his solution to redistribute wealth by taxing more heavily those who make more than $250.000.00 in order to give more generous subsidies to the poor. I have been in countries like Sweden or Norway, where supposedly there are no poor because the government takes care of every person from the cradle to the grave.

I remember speaking in Sweden with a divorced Adventist nurse who had a lovely 8 years old girl. I asked her if she worked. She replied that there was no reason for her to work, since the money she got from the government was more than what she could earn as a nurse. My impression is that a socialist form of government kills the free enterprise spirit. Why work hard to establish a business, when taxes take away most of the profit?

The Humanistic and Secular Philosophy of Obama

What distresses me most about Obana is not merely his socialistic agenda that appeals especially to minorities who expect more generous hand outs from the government, but his humanistic, secular philosophy that largely rejects fundamental biblical moral teachings. For him there is nothing wrong in killing a baby in a late stage of pregnancy if he/she comes out alive from the womb. For him the choice of the mother is more important than the life of the baby. Honestly, as a Christian I cannot support this 'culture of death.' By the same token, I cannot vote for a candidate that supports 'gay marriage.'

What makes America different from other Western Christian nations, is the fact that it was founded by Pilgrim Fathers who left their European homelands to establish a nation that would honor God and the moral principles of His Word. It seems to me that gradually the moral fabric of America is eroding by becoming a 'Godless society' like other Western nations. I have been in England over 30 times during the past few years. Three times this year alone. It is sad to see great Cathedrals transformed into warehouses or apartment complexes. A few are left abandoned as a witness to a faith that once was alive but today is dead.

Is America slowly moving in the same direction? There are signs indicating that humanism is becoming pervasive in America, as the Ten Commandments, the Bible, and even prayer are no longer welcome in public places.

I believe the election of Obama will foster humanism and secularism in America. After all he comes from a hybrid religious background: Moslem, a radical anti-white Christian church, and now a generic Christian faith. The result is that he want to bring about a change - not only a political change, that most likely a change in the religious orientation of Americans. Could it be that the current economic crisis, under Obama could become a moral, religious crisis that will affect the future of this great nation?

[Excerpts from Dr. Samuele Bacchiocchi's Newsletter.]

Also see: http://www.biblicalperspectives.com/endtimeissues/eti_216.htm

[Jeannieb43]

Here's another example of someone who has been led astray by the propaganda of the Republican Party. Bacchiocchi is totally wrong on some of his statements. For instance:

1) Obama stated categorically in the third debate that the reason he did not vote for the Illinois bill to give medical care to an aborted fetus which continued to live after its premature birth was that Illinois already had such a law on the books; and the proposed law made no provision for birth control prior to conception. In other words, it was a useless bill.

[Very few people are as smart or quick as Barack Obama. He studies things ahead of time; he knew exactly why that proposed Illinois law was unnecessary and also wrong. Whereas his detractors merely saw that he voted No on a *useless* bill.]

So, Bacchiocchi made a wrong assumption by stating Obama would not vote to give medical aid to a living aborted fetus. That's a disingenuous propaganda piece fostered by the McCain camp.

Also:

2) Obama has never ever said he supports gay marriage. What he does support are equal rights for all citizens. That means that if gay people wish to be married, and the state where they reside has provision for such, Obama would not vote to remove that right.

We here in California have a current proposition on our ballot, which would create a constitutional amendment saying marriage is between one man and one woman. I personally believe that is what marriage is; but I totally object to discriminating against a small segment of our population who would otherwise not be able to inherit from their spouse, would not be allowed to visit a terminally ill spouse in the hospital, and would not be able to obtain health insurance benefits from the spouse's policy. That, I maintain, would be discrimination.

I personally can foresee a time when Seventh-day Adventists, who are a minority, will be voted into oblivion by the majority. Shouldn't we, then, use our voting power here and now to demonstrate what Christian charity really is? --that we honor the rights of a minority, even if we don't personally subscribe to their beliefs?

And, worst of all (in my opinion):

3) Bacchiocchi thinks electing Obama would bring about "secular humanism" in America.

Well, if you don't want a radical religious zealot such as McCain appears to be, the only other alternative is a neutral, "non-religious" [in your opinion] Obama. I would much prefer having no interference in my religious life than to have legalized "Christian" religion forced upon me.

To make assumptions about Obama based upon the disingenuous propaganda of the McCain camp doesn't show much scholarly study of the situation, IMHO. In other words, I don't see anything new, or revealing, or scholarly about Bacchiocchi's appraisal of the current presidential candidates.

[Bravus]

Sam is a good theologian and a very well read and interesting guy, but he is also *very* conservative, so his response is hardly so very surprising.

[John317]

What has Obama accomplished or done in the U.S. Senate that shows we should elect him to be president of the United States?

[Bravus]

There are achievements other than achievements in the Senate and in political life

[nuff sed]

It might be nice to know what some of them were............

[BobRyan]

Certainly -- there is the promotion of radicalism in our education systeem (instead of scholastic achievement) and there is training fellow community organizers on the best way to push their "affordable housing" agenda with business to get them to make unsafe non-secure loans.

We get that part already.

[Neil D]

What has Obama accomplished or done in the U.S. Senate that shows we should elect him to be president of the United States?

Is the subject of this thread Obama or Dr. Sam's newsletter on politics?

You guys have got to be careful of highjacking a thread.....I know it's easy when your opinion is on the line....

[John317]

There are achievements other than achievements in the Senate and in political life

What specific achievements outside the Senate and in political life has Obama accomplished or done that show he should be elected as America's next president?

[John317]

Is the subject of this thread Obama or Dr. Sam's newsletter on politics?

You guys have got to be careful of highjacking a thread.....I know it's easy when your opinion is on the line....

It's OK to discuss both together. I think that based on Bacchiocchi's message, there's a lot of different ways of approaching the subject. I don't necessarily agree with Bacchiocchi. I actually agree with some of Jeannie criticisms of Bacchiocchi's letter.

I do find this part interesting, and I do partly agree with it: "What distresses me most about Obana is not merely his socialistic agenda that appeals especially to minorities who expect more generous hand outs from the government, but his humanistic, secular philosophy that largely rejects fundamental biblical moral teachings."

Bacchiocchi lived in Italy where the socialist party and other Leftists are very active and a strong part of the government. So I am not surprised that Bacchiocchi recognizes the socialistic agenda of Obama.

When I bring up Obama's socialism, the following are the main reactions I get:

1) Ready acknowledgement and approval (this always from socialists and people on the Left, such as I saw among the demonstrators in Denver. None of these denied Obama has a socialist agenda, but many, such as the communists, wanted Obama even more to the Left than he is. American communists do not like reformists, which they consider Obama to be.)

2) Outright denial and anger that the subject is even broached (this usually from people who either don't know a socialist when they see one or who are afraid that acknowledgement could ruin his chances of being elected).

3) Indifference (this from people who just like him and would vote for him regardless of anything he could say or represent).

4) Agreement and dismay that a socialist will likely be elected president of the USA (this from people who do not like socialism and don't want to see the USA headed in that direction).

5) Initial resistance and denial, then acceptance, but a continued enthusiastic support for their candidate.

[Bravus]

Obama is a Bible believing Christian who attends a Christian church weekly (no matter what some may say about its pastor). It's a bit rich to accuse him of having a secular agenda. One of the things we try to avoid here is calling other Christian belivers' faith into question: I think that would be a fair attitude to extend to Obama. I'm not sure I've seen the same degree of active engagement with a church on McCain's part, come to think of it, but I'm happy to be corrected on that point.

[olger]

Miss Jeanie's characterization of McCain as a radical religious zealot is fascinating to me. Few if any have ever conferred that pejorative title upon him. Perhaps you were thinkin of Louis Farrakhan? (who openly calls Obama "the Messiah").

I see a lot of religious apathy in McCain, less in Sarah Palin.

I thought this line of Brother Sam's was salient "I believe the election of Obama will foster humanism and secularism in America. After all he comes from a hybrid religious background: Moslem, a radical anti-white Christian church, and now a generic Christian faith. The result is that he want to bring about a change - not only a political change, that most likely a change in the religious orientation of Americans. Could it be that the current economic crisis, under Obama could become a moral, religious crisis that will affect the future of this great nation?

regards,

oG

[Neil D]

Quote:

Bacchiocchi lived in Italy where the socialist party and other Leftists are very active and a strong part of the government. So I am not surprised that Bacchiocchi recognizes the socialistic agenda of Obama.

But Dr. Sam sees things pretty much the way you see them and you have reflected a lot of his views.

Quote:

When I bring up Obama's socialism, the following are the main reactions I get

But I understand that your world views are pretty much colored by your past associatations....and I don't view your world as you do...

I don't see Obama as that liberal nor a Socialist. This is based upon a personal review of his voting record and comparing his agenda with other senate members.

And when I invite you to review his record, you pretty much don't do that. You let others do your thinking for you...

To echo the radical views from the McCAin camp is a show of desparation that is unsound. Obviously, we will disagree with a lot of his policys and it should be an interesting 4 years, should Obama win the presidential election...

[Dr. Shane]

I agree that Obama appears to attend church more and talk about his faith more than McCain.

[olger]

Correct. That is partly how he learned Jeremiah Wright's teachings.

[John317]

Quote:

Bacchiocchi lived in Italy where the socialist party and other Leftists are very active and a strong part of the government. So I am not surprised that Bacchiocchi recognizes the socialistic agenda of Obama.

But Dr. Sam sees things pretty much the way you see them and you have reflected a lot of his views.

Not sure what you mean by saying I have reflected Dr. Sam's views. If you mean we see some things similary, that is true. But I am not reflecting his views, since I only learned what a few of his views are at the time I posted them. It was the first I'd heard or read of them.

I have studied a lot of his books on theology but none of his views on political matters or on the election.

[John317]

Quote:

Socialist

Socialist seems to be the catch-all word for anything that people find to disagree with when it comes to Obama!

Will the accuser care to define the word when they use it, instead of just presuming we all use the word they do!....

Here are some definitions of socialism--

Quote:

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This

so·cial·ism [soh-shuh-liz-uhm] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation

–noun

1. a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.

2. procedure or practice in accordance with this theory.

3. (in Marxist theory) the stage following capitalism in the transition of a society to communism, characterized by the imperfect implementation of collectivist principles.

[John317]

Jeremiah Wright's theology is Black Liberation Theology, which is heavily influenced by Marxist theory. This is what Obama and his wife listened to for the approximately 20 years they attended Wright's church. No doubt Obama is largely in agreement with it. It's a theology that favors socialism over capitalism.

[carolaa]

Miss Jeanie's characterization of McCain as a radical religious zealot is fascinating to me. Few if any have ever conferred that pejorative title upon him. Perhaps you were thinkin of Louis Farrakhan? (who openly calls Obama "the Messiah").

I see a lot of religious apathy in McCain, less in Sarah Palin.

I thought this line of Brother Sam's was salient "The result is that he want to bring about a change - not only a political change, that most likely a change in the religious orientation of Americans. Could it be that the current economic crisis, under Obama could become a moral, religious crisis that will affect the future of this great nation?

1) I agree. It is McCain's backers who are the radical religous zealots, not McCain himself.

2) Or...could it be that Obama will change the religious orientation of Americans by steering them toward "walking the talk" as opposed to the hypocrisy we have seen for so many years?

[carolaa]

1) Ready acknowledgement and approval (this always from socialists and people on the Left, such as I saw among the demonstrators in Denver. None of these denied Obama has a socialist agenda, but many, such as the communists, wanted Obama even more to the Left than he is. American communists do not like reformists, which they consider Obama to be.)

I thought you were the one who keeps saying Obama is not a true socialist. Am I confused?

Elsewhere you gave what you felt were good definitions of socialism and capitalism. I'm wondering if you would do the same for communism. I have never considered myself to be a communist, but I have to say I am one of the ones who is very disappointed that Obama has seemingly changed his stand on things I feel are important. I'm not sure now whether he moved toward the center or just more mainstream, or maybe there isn't a difference between the two. Surely communists aren't the only ones who feel that way.