Bolivia Suspends U.S. Anti-Drug Efforts

[carolaa]

Does anyone besides me find it odd that we have blacklisted Bolivia and are causing hardship for their common people, simply because they do not want our "help" in fighting their drug problem? I mean, it appears they are surpassing the minimum seizures that we requested; meanwhile, Colombia is not doing so well with their drug problem - but they are our friend. I don't know, it just seems like we're always trying to go where we're not wanted.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081101/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/lt_bolivia_us

[Dr. Shane]

I don't think any country owes anything to any other country. Boliva has a lot of natural resources and if it didn't have a corrupt government the common people wouldn't need foreign assistance.

[carolaa]

It looks like we are the corrupt ones, going in where we are not wanted - again.

[Dr. Shane]

Nope, not at all. America is one of the most honorable nations in the world. Anyone that thinks America is corrupt needs to go back to the impeachment of President Bill Clinton. That impeachment showed the world that America is governed by the rule of law. Even the President himself must answer to the law and the same law that governs the common man governs the nation's chief executive.

[carolaa]

Impeachment is a slap on the wrist. He still remained in office. That's not the same consequence anyone else would have had.

[Woody]

He remained in the office .. thanks to the Demos talking about corrupt.

[carolaa]

He was only impeached because of the Republicans.

[Woody]

Praise God for some who are faithful to justice instead of abuse. At least he has a federal offense on his record. And he lost his ability to practice law. There is some justice.

[carolaa]

I seriously doubt he is bothered by either of those.

[Dr. Shane]

Impeachment is Bill Clinton's legacy. It is now and will forever be. No history book will ever exclude it from a discussion about his presidency. Impeachment simply means to bring charges against. It is like being indited. After being impeached one must be placed on trial. The Senate found Clinton not guilty because the public did not desire him to be removed from office. However the fact that he was impeached shows that he was subject to the law and not above it. The fact that it was led by the Republicans goes to show our two-party system works. American really is like a city on a hill - a shining example for the world.

[carolaa]

American really is like a city on a hill - a shining example for the world.

I'm sure that's why Bolivia and other countries hate us.

I'm not saying America is all bad, and I think at one time we were a "shining example" for the world, but our shine is almost tarnished to nothing these days.

[Woody]

Quote:

but our shine is almost tarnished to nothing these days.

As an American .. I appreciate your freedom to say that . But I have to respectfully disagree.

For example ... I would propose that almost every nation and people are interested in the current election. What other country has this amount of concern for their election?

[carolaa]

Yes. They are interested, because they want to know if they should still spit on us or not. They want to know if they still need to be afraid of us, with our empire building and occupations.

[Woody]

At least they are now withholding the spit. That is positive.

[carolaa]

At least literally.

[Woody]

I try to be literal and positive.

Can you seriously tell me what other country is any better than us?

[Taylor]

Originally Posted By: Shane

American really is like a city on a hill - a shining example for the world.

I'm sure that's why Bolivia and other countries hate us.

I'm not saying America is all bad, and I think at one time we were a "shining example" for the world, but our shine is almost tarnished to nothing these days.

I travel alot internationally and I can say that despite the problems in our society America is still the greatest country on earth. No other place has the freedoms, the programs to help the impoverished, the religious liberty like we enjoy in the good-ole USA. If you think there is corruption here...you ought to see some of the injustices and corruption I have wittnessed in other countries. Makes me enjoy what we have in America even more. I love people from other countries, but there is no doubt that our country has been blessed for all the freedoms it has given it's citizens.

Other countries may hate us for a variety of reasons some being:

1. Yes we messed up and didn't do something right.

2. We stand against what they stand for.

3. We do not put up with the corruption level that exists in many other countries.

4. They can't controll us and they wish they could.

Etc.

This isn't coming from a "die hard, redneck american" either. I do have a world view becuase of where I have lived and worked. There are things that other countries, including socialist countries are doing right. However, despite some glaring problems in our country, we STILL have much more religious liberty, and much less corruption than many countries.

There are other things we could well learn from some other cultures such as

1. How to slow down and actually enjoy getting to know your neighbbors.

2. How to put friends and family first, before just climbing the cooperate ladder.

3. How to be content with little, instead of always having to "keep up with the Joneses"

etc.

But we have a country that has been blessed because of the freedoms we enjoy.

[Woody]

Yes. Exactly my point. Thank you Taylor. If you think we are bad ... you need to get out of bed.

[carolaa]

I agree. America is a great country. I'm happy to live here and proud of our Constitution and the freedoms that we have left. My only point is that America used to be a better country than we are now. We used to be known for our good morals and character. Now, as most of the world can see, we are going downhill, specifically with regard to foreign relations and our own rights and freedoms. This began slowly about 30 or so years ago, with giant leaps in the past 7 years. We can be blind to it and focus only on positives, or we can own it and try to get back to where we were. Sadly, many Americans have their heads in the sand of denial. Even more tragic, some Americans actually approve of the direction we are going.

[Woody]

My head is NOT in the sand ... It is lookin up to the skies.

But, I have to say that the ENTIRE world is sinkin in sin. And as the Bible predicts ... it is all gettin worse. But as Americans ... we continue to keep a 'head up' from the rest of the crowd. Just check out the behavior of the other nations at the UN. The US is the ONLY nation that is willing to try to help others and stand up against evil.

At times we have dragged other nation to help. But often they just refuse. The outside world is pullin for Palin/McCain in the election so that they can be assured that we will do what is right.

[carolaa]

Where is the U.S. when Israel does evil to Palestine? Other countries *are* trying to fight evil. The UN has troops all over the world in places like Congo. And who exactly are we helping, anyway?

[Dr. Shane]

My only point is that America used to be a better country than we are now.

When? During segregation when the southern states allowed the KKK to run local and state politics? Or before it was ruled unconstitutional for to have prayer in public school and local school boards taught the area's prevailing religion in the local schools? Maybe before Loving v. Virgina which legalized interracial marriage? Or perhaps before it was illegal to discriminate on basis of age, sex or religion? Are we talking about before student loans and pell grants allowed the poorest of the poor to go to college? Or are we talking about before the great society programs altogether? Or are we talking about before women had the right to vote or even further back when slavery was still legal?

I am not sure when exactly it was that America was a better country than it is today. From where I stand it seems we have more freedoms, less discrimination and greater economic opportunities than ever before.

[fccool]

There are two American really. The American heartland, and America as a nation. Not too long I gave a presentation at my church stating some not so obvious facts. But, I think there's a disconnect in minds of Americans about their nation.

On one hand we have

1) A nation founded on Christian principles and respect for personal freedom.

2) A nation that is an unprecedented economic power in the world

3) A nation full of innovative people, and leader in technology

4) A really powerful military power

5) A great example of democratic Republic form of government.

6) A nation where 90% of people believe in God, and 40% of people attend church regularly

On the other hand we have

1) Nation that holds the largest debt in the world, both public and private

2) Nation that is far behind on the education compared even to some developing countries

3) A nation where divorces among Christians are more common than non-Christian

4) A nation that spends on military more than the rest of the world combined

5) #1 consumer of pornography.

6) #1 in per capita prisoners

7) #1 among the developed nations in murders per capita

There were more, but it's obvious that there's a disconnect between the "image painted" and the reality. I think it is mainly due to people escaping the reality by clinging to the ideal.

I was not trying to knock on US. After all, I immigrated to the US for better way of life for my family. Yet, I will be the first one to tell you that I am somewhat disappointed as far as the present condition the country is in right now. The priorities of the politicians are really screwed up. Enormous amounts of money are spent policing the world, while there are real problems left at home.

Yet, at the same time, I think that military interventions of the past have plaid a major role in securing dollar hegemony. I'm not saying that there were no righteous interventions, yet I believe that many of these interventions screwed things up more than they fixed these.

[fccool]

For example... US supported Saddam before they condemned him. The same with Bin Ladden. This kind on meddling also finds itself in economic realm, where conditions are attached to economic "aid", and the countries end up worse of in the long run.

So, in many cases, US... along side with IMF, WTO and Wold Bank end up being a bad Samaritans, instead of rescuing the people from poverty.

You can't demand other nations to deregulate their trade, when US enjoys an extreme regulation and economic interventionism and protectionism policies at home. In fact, there are very few historical cases where nations got rich by practicing absolute free trade. IMO businesses have to be built up before they can successfully compete internationally. That was the case with developed countries. They only opened up during the peak of their economic performance. Yet, these demand other nations to open up right away, by telling them that free trade will somehow rescue them from poverty. And the third world ends up playing monopoly game with people who have all the money and means of production. The labor of people being exploited, as economies become heavily depended on monetarism policies.

If these nations only resisted and built up their economies, like South Korea, China and Japan did, they would be able to compete better in the long run, instead of selling of the natural resources to foreigners.

This is one of the reasons Chavez is nationalizing some businesses. South Korea and Japan did the same thing in 60s, and now these are among the wealthiest nations in the world. In cases of South Korea and Japan, nationalization was not power struggle, but in interest of people and making businesses run more efficiently.

So there two sides of everything. Yet, US is trying to put place the world in Friedman's free trade gold restraining jacket... and it's one fits all sizes. As end result it does not benefit poor, or benefit them very little.

Same goes with idea of spreading democracy. Since when is democracy the best form of government? It only works under certain historical and economic conditions. Some countries are better off with monarchy. Honestly, what is wrong with monarchy... if it is in favor of the people... for example like in Saudi Arabia?

[carolaa]

You're right, Shane. We've made a lot of progress in some areas. I can't complain about it or ignore it or deny it.

What I'm talking about that has been happening for the last 30 years, give or take, is this interventionist philosophy where we have gradually turned into the bully of the world. It has little to do with helping people who are suffering and much to do with controlling world governments and making "trade agreements" that allow our corporations to come in and plunder the natural resources of other countries with no accountability and no recourse. It's tragic to me that some people think this is ok.

It also sickens me that our capitalistic system, that used to be the envy of the world, is now becoming the laughingstock of the world. Our economy is now fueled almost entirely by debt and is in serious threat of total collapse - along with much of the rest of the world who have been looking up to us and following our example.

Our system of government is becoming more corrupt by the day. The two major parties work together to effectively keep all other parties out of the picture. Congress is controlled by the corporations that sponsor them. The administration is an embarrassment, skirting the law and thumbing its nose at its own citizens. Maybe these things have always happened to some extent, but it's certainly not the America I grew up believing in, that had the admiration and respect of most of the world.

These things are immoral, and naturally they are causing most of the world to lose respect for us, even hate us. I don't understand people who don't care about these things or think they aren't important.