Secular psychology and Biblical principles?

[Gail]

I've just read this small book (85 pages) and it gave me some GREAT food for thought:

I would LOVE to have a discussion on this book if anyone is interested.

You can order it from your nearest ABC.

Anyone interested in psychology? Counselling? What the Bible has to say on modern secular methods?

Please say yes!! :)

[olger]

What is on your mind Sister?

[Liz]

My husband is in his master's program to become a licensed professional counselor. He is going to be a Christian counselor. Discuss away. :)

[Gail]

Should we go ahead without having first read the book?

[John317]

I have not read the book yet, but my guess is that the danger this book sees in secular psychology is that it teaches us that there is no sin, that all values are relative. It tries to relieve us of guilt without getting rid of the reason for the guilt. It encourages us to discard the word of God as any kind of authority. Is that pretty close to what the book is saying?

[Gail]

Not quite. Well, so much for waiting to read the book first!

First it goes into the history of clinical psychology and then focuses on these areas:

-The need to understand childhood

-God and others must love me unconditionally

-Meeting needs attracts and keeps church members

-Emotions

-I'm a Christian, do I need psychology?

-Christian psychology

It's one thing to say this or that based on what we think, but this doctor IS a psychologist. That's what made me interested in her viewpoint.

[Gail]

My husband is in his master's program to become a licensed professional counselor. He is going to be a Christian counselor. Discuss away.

In June my daughter will have her first degree in Psychology. She is receiving her training in a Christian university, so I wonder if her training will be different. I plan to let her have a look at the book and see what she thinks, but I will wait until she finishes her studies for the year.

[Gail]

Okay, I'll tell you a point that the book brings up about "self".

I know from my studies that the Bible tells us that self is a problem, and that I are to deny myself, die daily, etc. IOW, "self" is the problem: our love of self and desire to exalt self.

Today's trend is to focus on self. We are to dig into our pasts, recount our pain and our hurt and nurture the "self". Self-esteem is to be focused on, as if lack of it causes our problems. Our schools have focused on nurturing self-esteem in our children until we have a generation who seems to feel that their needs come first, an attitude that the world "owes" them.

Now, I've lived long enough to know that real life is not always kind. Just because one has a need does not mean that circumstances are going to turn around and minister to that. Focusing on my needs does not guarantee that they will be met, in the world that I live in.

I think that what I wonder is, How does this heal the wounds that I have?

From my experience, I've learned that God is the One who heals. He is the One who provided food for my family through various ways when we needed it. He provided money, helping friends, and insight in His Word gave me courage (and self-worth, BTW) that has helped me when traditional therapy only went so far (I was in therapy for about 10 years long ago).

This is starting to get lengthy, so even though I have more I could say, I'll stop.

Thoughts?

[John317]

I agree with those thoughts. My experience is that the most effective way to be "healed" of our hurts is to concentrate on ministering to the needs of others, not to ourselves. I think that keeping our minds centered on the self only exacerbates the problems.

[Liz]

Well, I haven't read this book. And my husband went to a secular college and got his B.A. in Psychology, and now he is in a Christian college for his Master's. I just wanted to be a little more clear.

I am in no way, size or form an expert. The following is just my observations.

People are funny creatures, and no two are alike, what will work for one won't work for someone else. There is no cookie cutter answer. However, for every secular type of therapy there is a Christian counter-part. It really depends on what our problems are, that will be the basis for the type of therapy that they need.

Just telling someone to get out there and start helping someone else who may be worse off than you, really diminishes their own hurts and pain--which would be revictimizing them. Helping others may very well be part of their treatment plan, but only after they have dealt with their own hurt and started the forgiveness process.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

hear, hear .....

[Gail]

Quote:

Just telling someone to get out there and start helping someone else who may be worse off than you, really diminishes their own hurts and pain--which would be revictimizing them. Helping others may very well be part of their treatment plan, but only after they have dealt with their own hurt and started the forgiveness process.

It's a good point to read the book, as the author tells about her experience in treating people, using the current methods.

I don't know if John317 was telling others what to do... he just mentioned what helps him.

I am interested in knowing what else helps people work through their pain.

[Jeannieb43]

Self-worth can't be "taught." The way to acquire self-worth, self-esteem, is by tackling some difficult task, and doing it well, to its conclusion. The end result is a feeling of satisfaction which nothing else can bring.

Helping our children or grandchildren tackle something difficult, and working through it with them [not abandoning them to "go do it yourself"] I think helps them acquire a sense of accomplishment which they'll really prize. Then they'll try to repeat it for themselves in other challenges as they go through life.

Success breeds success.

[John317]

Sure. Of course.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

a caveat: Christian-based counseling should be wary of doing Bible thumping as a form of therapy. I had that happen in a BIG way, and it was nearly my undoing.

Bible thumping: quoting and making one read/memorize texts over and over again. And if the problem didn't go away, then use MORE texts and even MORE texts! If the client doesn't get better, then it *obviously* is the CLIENT'S fault, and nothing more.

[Gail]

Great input!

A clue- The author does make a difference between self-worth and self-esteem.

There are several Scriptures which depict images of tender love, such as the one in Song of Solomon 2:6 where the Lover has his hand under his love's head while embracing her. I know of one person who was comforted by this picture. Psalm 23 provides another picture of peace and watchful care. Those are the principles- how they are interpreted varies from person to person.

The concept of nurture and comfort run all through the Bible... but how do they "fit" with the other Scriptures that call for self-denial?

[Gail]

a caveat: Christian-based counseling should be wary of doing Bible thumping as a form of therapy. I had that happen in a BIG way, and it was nearly my undoing.

Bible thumping: quoting and making one read/memorize texts over and over again. And if the problem didn't go away, then use MORE texts and even MORE texts! If the client doesn't get better, then it *obviously* is the CLIENT'S fault, and nothing more.

Good point- how does Scripture become more than just words to a person? It seems better to examine the principle carried in the words.

[Gail]

One concern that the author brought up was that people could become dependent on their therapists and never really get well. She questioned the dependence that people had on people instead of God.

Thoughts?

[Gail]

I have to admit that I have TONS of questions...

[Liz]

a caveat: Christian-based counseling should be wary of doing Bible thumping as a form of therapy. I had that happen in a BIG way, and it was nearly my undoing.

Bible thumping: quoting and making one read/memorize texts over and over again. And if the problem didn't go away, then use MORE texts and even MORE texts! If the client doesn't get better, then it *obviously* is the CLIENT'S fault, and nothing more.

Great point!!! In one of the books that dh had to read for a class, the author had this exact same point of view. Beat them over the head with the Bible. And no matter what the problem was, one only had to go to a Revelation-type seminar, and all the problems would vanish. Dh said, "You know that saying, *you're so Heavenly minded--you're no earthly good*, it finally took on new meaning after reading that book".

It all has to be balanced.

Sidenote to John317--I wasn't attacking your point of view, I was just using that particular phrase, because I had heard it so much. I'm sorry if you thought I was attacking---not my intention at all.

[Gail]

I've learned some things over the years and correct me if I seem way off to you guys.

There is a place for godly counsel, and sometimes the godly counsel hurts. But there is a time when it's NOT time YET for the counsel, because it would make the opposite effect. The person is not yet ready- and no one likes to be pushed.

I think there is a place to consider what stage a person is at in their emotional health. Otherwise you will lose them. (Kinda like evangelism, isn't it?)

So, how are we to know? Sounds like the time for the Holy Spirit to me! There is no reason the Spirit couldn't be invited into ANY line of work where one is dealing with souls at sensitive times.

[Gail]

Having said that, the same person who I mentioned above (who saw Christ's love for her in the verse from Song of Solomon about cradling the lover's head in his hand) also was impressed by a verse in Deuteronomy (I'll try to find it and edit it in later).

The verse in Deuteronomy talks about having "been long enough on this mountain". IOW, the time came to move forward. So she did, with positive results.

What a delicate work this is!!