The Auto Industry...

[Stan]

Had a New Chrysler Mini-Van drove down to Florida from Toronto, both Mirrors fell off, bad glue.. I had to replace the on board computer 3 times in 6 years.

My previous van, a Pontiac Montana, had about 5,000 worth of repairs in the past 3 years.

My 2008 Torrent has already had to have the charging system replaced.

My 1995 Infinity, had never had to have any expensive maintenance done, it just keeps on going and going, it could use a paint job now..

Ford lost something like 9 billion dollars last year, Toyota made something like 5 billion.

The 'things gone wrong with North American vehicles' is not a new revelation.

I think more folks would purchase the North American vehicles if they were as dependable as Japanese ones.

Even the Japanese cars made in North American are quality.

Thoughts? Or have I just had bead experiences?

[Stan]

LOL this was just emailed to me..

- - - - copy and paste - - - -

A Japanese company ( Toyota ) and an American company (Ford) decided to have a canoe race on the Missouri River. Both teams practiced long and hard to reach their peak performance before the race.

On the big day, the Japanese won by a mile.

The Americans, very discouraged and depressed, decided to investigate the reason for the crushing defeat. A management team made up of senior management was formed to investigate and recommend appropriate action.

Their conclusion was the Japanese had 8 people rowing and 1 person steering, while the American team had 8 people steering and 1 person rowing.

Feeling a deeper study was in order, American management hired a consulting company and paid them a large amount of money for a second opinion.

They advised, of course, that too many people were steering the boat, while not enough people were rowing.

Not sure of how to utilize that information, but wanting to prevent another loss to the Japanese, the rowing team's management structure was totally reorganized to 4 steering supervisors, 3 area steering superintendents, and 1 assistant superintendent steering manager.

They also implemented a new performance system that would give the 1 person rowing the boat greater incentive to work harder. It was called the 'Rowing Team Quality First Program,' with meetings, dinners, and free pens for the rower. There was discussion of getting new paddles, canoes, and other equipment, extra vacation days for practices and bonuses.

The next year the Japanese won by two miles.

Humiliated, the American management laid off the rower for poor performance, halted development of a new canoe, sold the paddles, and canceled all capital investments for new equipment. The money saved was distributed to the Senior Executives as bonuses and the next year 's racing team was out-sourced to India .

The End.

Here's something else to think about:

Ford has spent the last thirty years moving all its factories out of the US , claiming they can't make money paying American wages.

TOYOTA has spent the last thirty years building more than a dozen plants inside the US. The last quarter's results:

TOYOTA makes 4 billion in profits while Ford racked up 9 billion in losses.

Ford folks are still scratching their heads.

------------

IF THIS WEREN'T TRUE, IT MIGHT BE FUNNY !

[Gail]

If you ask me, those well-muscled rowers look pretty fine! And they handle themselves on the course great, too!

AND- They are so well-tuned that they hardly need maintenance!

This is coming from someone who has one of each team... Japanese and American.

The American team car is relatively newer, but we have had to sink money into it since we've gotten it.

[Doug]

I agree 100%, I am a big car person and there was no way the big three could compete with the Japanese big three when they make 5K profit per vehicle while the US automakers were making a couple hundred dollars profit per vehicle. Honestly I don't see what this "bailout" will do for them other than just keep them afloat for a few more months. If US automakers had focused on making quality vehicles in the past they would not be in this situation.

[phkrause]

That sounds about right. When my wife worked for this eye doctor, he would spend thousands of dollars for consultant's, just to tell him his office was working just fine. But when she asked for a raise or pay for milage he would say no. Which in the long run was much cheaper than paying for consultants. At the place I used to work they did the same thing. If you think about it what is the difference between the big 3 and toyota&honda? its the union. It will never change. Good post Stan.

pk

[Gail]

Douggie, are you growing an extra finger or something? You keep pushing the wrong key!

[melvin mccarty]

To keep a little balance here I have a '93 Plymouth minivan near 300,000 K that has been and still is an excellent machine. Very dependable!.....mel

[bygjymbo]

I have a 1996 Mitsubishi Eclipse, still going strong with 165,000 miles.

I also have a 1999 Chevy Astro with 115,000. After a new rear, two transmissions (And it needs a third) etc. etc. it's on it's way to the bone yard.

I posted this link in another thread. It has some insight into why Japan is so far ahead.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Edwards_Deming

[Dr. Shane]

I think more folks would purchase the North American vehicles if they were as dependable as Japanese ones.

Sales hasn't been a problem until the recent financial meltdown. GM and Toyota both sold about the same number of cars last year. The problem is it costs GM too much to make the car.

[Dr. Shane]

Quote:

Here's something else to think about:

Ford has spent the last thirty years moving all its factories out of the US , claiming they can't make money paying American wages.

TOYOTA has spent the last thirty years building more than a dozen plants inside the US. The last quarter's results:

TOYOTA makes 4 billion in profits while Ford racked up 9 billion in losses.

Ford folks are still scratching their heads.

Toyota has not been building plants in Detroit. Mystery solved.

[Neil D]

Consumer Reports, that stuborn independent company that will not take corporate donations, has been reporting on cars for many years....In the 2008 report of the 10 best cars, it was the Toyota Prius that made the top of the list...for the 5th year in a row.

"In all, 20 of the models with the lowest rating were American: 11 from GM, seven from Chrysler, and two from Ford. There was also one each from Kia, Mazda, and Volvo. Only the Mazda CX-7 is a recommended model."

In last years magazine, in rating the 2008 models, CR reported that Ford had been significantly improving the reliability of thier cars the last 5 years to the point that they now consider Ford as reliable in thier later models as Toyota.

....and I have a 1999 GMC Sonoma pickup, and it now has 197K miles on it. And it's doning well...

[james423]

Just got a new Ford Focus and have been impressed with its handling, its fit and finish, and the service from the dealer. Of course, the fact that our extended family has bought 13 (including this one) vehicles from this dealer might be the answer.

[nuff sed]

Google "Ford Motor Plant Brazil" and see what you get

[Sulla]

Stan here are some facts to look over:)

http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings/qua...ge-#page-anchor

http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings/dep...ge-#page-anchor

If you notice Ford and Honda are neck and neck in over all quality. Right next to each other on the list. Ranked 7 and 8th. Ford is beating out Audi, Acura, Nissan, Volvo, Mazda, Volkswagen, Missubishi, Saab, Suzuji, Saturn (Oh and Saturn is at the bottom of the list) Land Rover and mini. And last year they also beat Toyota.

And in overal dependablitiy (First 3 years from 2005) Mercury is #2, Cadillac #3, Buick 6th, Lincoln 8th, Ford like 13th, And they beat Infiniti, Audi, Mercedes, nissan, mazda, saturn (Who also rank low agian in this category), volkswagen, saab , land rover etc.

And more stats http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pdf/2008115.pdf http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pdf/2008063.pdf

Also the latest news in the 3 months rankings is Ford is even with Honda and Toyota. http://www.autoblog.com/2008/04/07/ford-touting-quality-equal-to-that-of-toyota-and-honda/

And Ford just toped the safety ratings.

http://www.freep.com/article/20081124/BUSINESS01/311240002/1014/BUSINESS01

And since Ford was way ahead of GM and Dodge in turning things around they are not part of the bailout. And partly because of fears of what will happen to the other two companies and partly because of new safer and more reliable cars Ford is gaining market share at the moment. http://www.thestreet.com/story/10453257/1/ford-increases-european-market-share.html?cm_ven=GOOGLEFI

So I would say help America out a buy a Ford:) The facts show Fords are safer than most cars and just as dependable or more so than cars from Japan. Just dont by an older used one:)

[Stan]

good research there, thanks.

If I would have done the same, I would have bought a Ford..

[Sulla]

Well I just had this conversation with someone else so I already had a lot of it done:)

[Robert]

So I would say help America out a buy a Ford:)

No, help America out and buy a Honda or Toyota. They are mostly made here in the US.

[Dr. Shane]

I have been impressed with the Ford Ranger and Ford Escape but do not how they line up in any tests of reliability or customer satisfaction.

[Sulla]

There is still a big difference between having some plants here and being US owned.

[Robert]

By REUTERS

DETROIT, June 15 (Reuters) — The Ford Motor Company said on Friday that it would revamp three plants in Mexico over the next several years as part of its North American restructuring plan.

Ford, however, did not reveal where it planned to build a new, low-cost manufacturing facility. A leaked Ford document had suggested that the automaker was looking to build the plant in Mexico.

So much for helping Americans!

[Dr. Shane]

Helping Mexicans is helping Americans. Mexico is America's biggest trading partner. The more money Mexicans make the more goods they buy from America and the less Mexicans come across the border illegally.

[Robert]

Helping Mexicans is helping Americans. Mexico is America's biggest trading partner. The more money Mexicans make the more goods they buy from America and the less Mexicans come across the border illegally.

The US has this huge trade deficit with Mexico. They can't afford to buy our goods due to the fact that they are exploited! It's all about cheap labor....

[Sulla]

Robert.

First of all a plant being built in Mexico is not all bad or good. The this is NOT a zero-sum game. Secoundly Ford is a world wide company. They have plants world wide and have for a long time. Here is a list if you are interested. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ford_factories . And again I say even tho they build cars world wide its important that they are an American owned company.

Now about Mexico. Why does Mexico have cheap labor? Its because they have never been a well run country. They have corruption that runs deep into the culture. And because of these things the country has not done well and greating jobs.

[Robert]

Now about Mexico. Why does Mexico have cheap labor? Its because they have never been a well run country. They have corruption that runs deep into the culture. And because of these things the country has not done well and greating jobs.

And the Capitalists here take advantage of this. It is called exploitation.

ROb

[Sulla]

Quote:

And the Capitalists here take advantage of this. It is called exploitation.

No its called supply and demand. Cheap labor attracts investment and factories. And this in turn builds standard of living. Unless you have LOTS of curruption and very bad management. There is a reason why capatilism has been a success around the world. And a reason why its not done well where societies are very corrupt and goverments are not managed well.