2 Questions the Adventist Church Must Ask

[CGMedley]

General Conference undersecretary has pinpointed two issues the Adventist Church must address. You can read his stirring commentary in this week's Adventist Review.

http://www.adventistreview.org/issue.php?issue=2008-1535&page=16

[John317]

These two questions must be answered by each individual ALONE and APART from the necessity of feeling supported in his decision by others in the church or community. They have to be answered directly to God and Christ. Before Christ returns, we all will have to face standing completely alone and without any earthly support whatever.

[Tom Wetmore]

I think framing it that way goes in direct contradiction to the spirit of what Larry was trying to convey. If we can respond positively to both questions we will realize, like never before that the restoration of all things means that we are NOT alone or apart from God or anyone and never should be or in a saved sense ever will be again. To be in relationship with God and our brother is to not be apart or alone.

Perhaps what you have suggested reflects a traditional understanding of the Judgment where we must be measured to see if we are fit enough to wear a one size, doesn't fit all, heavenly suit. But it misses some key elements like having an advocate beside us who has vowed to never leave us or forsake us and to hang in there with us to the very end. That Advocate's name means "God with us". One hardly stands apart or alone in relationship to Him.

What Larry is talking about is, IMHO, more consistent with the paradigm shift about judgment that Jesus described as relational. Love God and love one another puts us in proximity and oneness with both God and man. Standing in the judgment of God in that context results in a real sense of peace that we are not alone either in terms of where we are with God or where we are with our brother. Jesus was framing judgment as good news, after all.

Tom

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

What Larry is talking about is, IMHO, more consistent with the paradigm shift about judgment that Jesus described as relational. Love God and love one another puts us in proximity and oneness with both God and man. Standing in the judgment of God in that context results in a real sense of peace that we are not alone either in terms of where we are with God or where we are with our brother. Jesus was framing judgment as good news, after all.

What a cool way to describe it. :smile:

[Woody]

I think framing it that way goes in direct contradiction to the spirit of what Larry was trying to convey. If we can respond positively to both questions we will realize, like never before that the restoration of all things means that we are NOT alone or apart from God or anyone and never should be or in a saved sense ever will be again. To be in relationship with God and our brother is to not be apart or alone.

Perhaps what you have suggested reflects a traditional understanding of the Judgment where we must be measured to see if we are fit enough to wear a one size, doesn't fit all, heavenly suit. But it misses some key elements like having an advocate beside us who has vowed to never leave us or forsake us and to hang in there with us to the very end. That Advocate's name means "God with us". One hardly stands apart or alone in relationship to Him.

What Larry is talking about is, IMHO, more consistent with the paradigm shift about judgment that Jesus described as relational. Love God and love one another puts us in proximity and oneness with both God and man. Standing in the judgment of God in that context results in a real sense of peace that we are not alone either in terms of where we are with God or where we are with our brother. Jesus was framing judgment as good news, after all.

Tom

Amen. Thank you Tom. You have stated it SO well.

[Woody]

My wife and I read this together as soon as it arrived at our home.

I thought the following quote in the article was excellent and very powerful.

"Any man,be he minister or layman, who seeks to compel or control the reason of any other man, becomes an agent of Satan, to do his work, and in the sight of the heavenly universe he bears the mark of Cain." 1BC 1087

Wow! Just Wow!

[John317]

I think framing it that way goes in direct contradiction to the spirit of what Larry was trying to convey. If we can respond positively to both questions we will realize, like never before that the restoration of all things means that we are NOT alone or apart from God or anyone and never should be or in a saved sense ever will be again. To be in relationship with God and our brother is to not be apart or alone.

Perhaps what you have suggested reflects a traditional understanding of the Judgment where we must be measured to see if we are fit enough to wear a one size, doesn't fit all, heavenly suit. But it misses some key elements like having an advocate beside us who has vowed to never leave us or forsake us and to hang in there with us to the very end. That Advocate's name means "God with us". One hardly stands apart or alone in relationship to Him.

What Larry is talking about is, IMHO, more consistent with the paradigm shift about judgment that Jesus described as relational. Love God and love one another puts us in proximity and oneness with both God and man. Standing in the judgment of God in that context results in a real sense of peace that we are not alone either in terms of where we are with God or where we are with our brother. Jesus was framing judgment as good news, after all.

Actually I don't disagree with anything you've said here. My point is simply that we can't depend on other humans to tell us-- or determine for us-- whether we are right with God or right with our fellow humans.

[Neil D]

Actually I don't disagree with anything you've said here. My point is simply that we can't depend on other humans to tell us-- or determine for us-- whether we are right with God or right with our fellow humans.

Excuse me.....you can't tell whether you are right with your fellow humans???

Now, I admit to not reading the article ....but what do you mean that you can't tell whether you are right with your fellow humans??? It's been my experience that I can tell whether I am right with humans pretty quick....especially when I walk out of the bathroom with TP on the bottom of my shoe....You want to see a lot of talk going on in a crowded restrauant, you try that once....I guareentee that, if you are willing to listen, you will hear murmurings.....maybe someone will try to convert you to the idea that maybe you got TP on your shoe....

.....all I have to do is quietly listen.....and I hear all sorts of things....

Of course, if you are listening now, you really know what I am talking about....

[John317]

Originally Posted By: John317

Actually I don't disagree with anything you've said here. My point is simply that we can't depend on other humans to tell us-- or determine for us-- whether we are right with God or right with our fellow humans.

Excuse me.....you can't tell whether you are right with your fellow humans???

No, I didn't say we can't tell.

Nor, by the way, am I saying that we shouldn't pay attention to what people say.

What I am saying is that we can't depend on other people to determine for us if we are right with God or right with people. In other words, people can and often do lead us astray about what is right and wrong. Society is frequently wrong. Much of society would tell you to obey popular opinion and values and reject Bible principles.