Dr. Shane Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Quote: Perhaps because you can't... Those that don't want to admit the sun is shining will play around with words and meanings to twist things so that no matter how much they are shown the obvious they will never admit it to be true. I wasn't born yesterday. I don't play games with people unwilling to accept the obvious. They can go look for some other chump some place else that likes to play those games. If they want to participate in a healthy exchange of ideas with me, they are going to have to agree to the obvious otherwise they are barking up the wrong tree. We (those of us in this forum) do not make Israel the victim. Hate-filled, radical Muslims in the Middle East do that. If the Arabs wanted peace there would be peace. The Arabs are the ones refusing to accept peace. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted January 2, 2009 Moderators Share Posted January 2, 2009 I'd like to see just one example, Shane. I understand your reluctance to do a lot of work, but you *are* the one making a claim, so it is incumbent on you to provide *some* evidence. (Other than that loon Ahmadinejad). Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fccool Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Quote: Perhaps because you can't... We (those of us in this forum) do not make Israel the victim. Hate-filled, radical Muslims in the Middle East do that. If the Arabs wanted peace there would be peace. The Arabs are the ones refusing to accept peace. It has nothing to do with not wanting peace. If I take control of your house by means of a gun, and then say... go away... why are you so violent... would you? I don't believe you would. You would complain, you would bring your friends/relatives to reclaim what has been lost. If in the process I shot a couple of them, you would hate me even more? But according to your view, you should just pack up and move elsewhere to keep things peaceful. It's not that simple for people who's families lived ages on that land... and all of a sudden they have to give up because some crazy guy in Germany decided that genocide is a good idea? Why not annex a piece of Germany, why force people of the land they have been occupying for ages? That's what I mean by saying that Israel is the original aggressor and will be viewed as such. I understand that you were not born yesterday, but methinks that you have not lived in the Arab world much to even know what they believe and how that feel. I can say that I did, and I can relate. I understand. I don't justify the ridiculous acts of aggression against Israel, but I can certainly understand why. And it is certainly not because they just hate a nation for no apparent reason... comic book style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 This is the problem. I give one example or 10,000 examples and those that want to disagree just pick them apart and say that what was being said wasn't really being said, it meant something else or they were not speaking for every man, woman, child and Arab household pet. If someone really wants to see an example just pick up a newspaper published in the last 60 years dealing with the topic and there will be an example. The fact is that Egypt is the only Arab nation to officially recognized Israel and the President of Egypt that did that was assassinated because of it. Egypt still hasn't opened its doors for Palestinians to immigrate and nationalize there. That is the real answer to this conflict. The Arab nations need to tell the Palestinians that any wanting to immigrate and nationalize in their nations are welcome to do so. If that were to happen it wouldn't matter how big or small the Palestinian homeland was because Palestinians would have plenty of places they could live. But they don't want peace. And that is why the problem will never be solved. They want war. Death makes them happy. They celebrate and throw parties when their children blow themselves up. Does anyone remember a song Sting sang where a verse went something like "I hope the Russians love their children too"? The song's point was the only hope to avoid nuclear war was if the Russians loved their children like Americans and western Europeans do. Thankfully the Russians did love their children in that same way and nuclear war was avoided. Radical Muslims do not love their children the same way westerns do. Children that become suicide bombers are celebrated as heros. Mothers are proud their of their babies blowing themselves up. My only criticism of Israel is too little too late. If Mexico was shooting rockets into south Texas I would expect my government to have done a lot more much faster than what Israel has done to defend its citizens. How can Israel over-react? It seems no measure of force will persuade suicidal people to stop killing themselves and others. What they need to do is let them live but take out their infrastructure. Instead of killing a few, make life difficult for all. Blow up their bridges, power plants and water towers. Take out their gas stations. Destroy their ports and roads connecting them to the outside world. Israel needs to get serious about shutting them down. Don't kill them and make them martyrs. Let them live in misery. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 If I take control of your house by means of a gun, and then say... go away... why are you so violent... would you? Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fccool Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Shane, you are completely avoiding my questions and moving on to Mexico shooting the rockets into Texas... like these people shoot rockets without any reason to do so. They are in a vengeance mode. The more you marginalize these people, the more desperate they will be and desperate people do desperate things... like blowing themselves up to make a statement. How is it making people more desperate going to solve anything? It will create more hate from Muslim side, and will only reinforce the idea in minds of Arabs that Israel is an aggressor. That's why an integration into Egypt will not solve anything. I don't think you are being correct in saying that these people don't love their children. These people are not less human than you are. You have not experienced your child killed by a bomb shrapnel. So I find such statements quite insensitive towards humanity overall. Especially when it comes to collectively punish entire nation of people. It's beyond cruel. Most of those people don't want to be bombed just like they have no desire to bomb anyone. Yet somehow you implicate them in this mess saying that they deserve what they got? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted January 2, 2009 Members Share Posted January 2, 2009 I understand that the Jewish people can not claim the land spiritually anymore. But they have as much right to this land as anyone there. They have been there longer than anyone. And I don't accept that they are not descendants of Abraham. Because if they can't claim to be descendants of Abraham then Arabs cannot claim it either anymore, and I don't buy that. Like I have said before, I don't condone all that the Israeli's have done to the Palestinians. But they have actually treated them better that the rest of there arab neighbors, who really don't want anything to do with them. Israel has allowed Palestinians to be part of there government, live side by side in many cities etc. Look how the terrorist group Hamas has treated the palestinians. They made a mockery of them. They have only one purpose in life and that is to eliminate all Jewish people, period! Have you ever heard the Jewish nation say that they want the Arabs eliminated? No, because they are willing to live with them. No matter where Jews have lived in this world they have been discrimnated against. And as I have said before, no one says anything until they decide to do something about it. pk Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted January 2, 2009 Members Share Posted January 2, 2009 Who are the ones dying? Its not the Hamas terrorist! Its the poor palestinians that the terrorist tell them what to do. While they sit back and hide behind them so that when the Israelis come after them they will have to kill innocent people. That's what I dislike the most about Hamas and Hezballah and all the rest of the terrorist organizations. They are users. pk Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fccool Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 And instead of seeing through this, Israel embraces it and then you justify it. It's not about right to land, or who started it first. It's about human decency. 1 .... ONE person died because 300 hundred rockets were fired. 350 + people died due to constant bombings. Israel has every technology they need to shoot these rockets out of the sky. http://www.noahshachtman.com/archives/002583.html They don't do that, because they are longing (so it seems) for provocation and justification of their actions against civilian population that has little to do with the attacks. It's ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Shane, you are completely avoiding my questions and moving on to Mexico shooting the rockets into Texas... like these people shoot rockets without any reason to do so. They are in a vengeance mode. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 The only thing I don't like is what all this trouble is doing to our gas prices. It is moving towards two bucks a gallon. ANd I don't want to have to pay that much. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted January 2, 2009 Moderators Share Posted January 2, 2009 There is, of course, a very simple solution to the whole mess: nuke the whole region and everyone in it into a 10,000 square mile plain of radioactive glass. No land to fight over, no people to fight over it... peace at last. Any solution that is any less simple is far less simple. Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olger Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 "According to the Palestinian Media Watch, the Hamas charter specifically mandates the murder of Jews in compliance with what it believes is Divine will. Violence and terror, which Hamas refers to as “resistance”, are considered legitimate tools to be used for this purpose." "Last June, Palestinian television broadcast a sermon in a Gaza mosque in which the imam, Ibrahim Madi, made the following statement: "God willing, this unjust state Israel will be erased; this unjust state the United States will be erased; this unjust state Britain will be erased." "Understanding the Jihad to Destroy Israel by Andrew Bostom (Aug. 2006) As the conflagration in southern Lebanon rages on, open calls for an annihilationist jihad to eradicate the State of Israel are once again echoing across the Muslim world. There is no confusing the intent expressed in such brazen statements: [iranian Revolutionary Guard’s Commander] There is a need to topple the phony Zionist regime, this cancerous growth [called] Israel, which was founded in order to plunder the Muslims' resources and wealth [iranian President Ahmadinejad at an “emergency” meeting of the 57 Muslim member states of the Organization of the Islamic Conference in Malaysia] …the main solution is for the elimination of the Zionist regime These pronouncements from Iran’s Shi’ite regime and President Ahmadinejad, complemented by an independent statement from the immensely popular Sunni cleric, and “spiritual” leader of the Muslim Brotherhood Yusuf Qaradawi, make clear that this jihad transcends the sectarian Shi’ite-Sunni divide within Islam. “The Lebanese resistance is a Jihad (holy war). It is being waged by Shiites, who are also part of the Islamic Ummah [global community]” Qaradawi maintained. He further stated, “Shiites agree with almost all the fundamental principles of Islam, and the differences [between Sunni-Shi’ite] are only in supplementary matters.” Quote: "What Is Hezbollah? Lebanon Based Group Has Headquarters in Pakistan, Funding From Iran July 13, 2006 Hezbollah, which means "Party of God," was founded in Lebanon in 1982, many say by the Iranian leader Ayatollah Khomeini, as a response to Israel's invasion of Lebanon. Hezbollah is known for its terrorist attacks, but it also has political clout in Lebanon. (ABC News) More PhotosThe group's aim is to destroy Israel and to create a fundamentalist Islamic state in Lebanon. Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fccool Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Quote: May be there are Americans and other westerners having suicide parties when their children commit suicide that I don't know about. I can't say I have ever heard of one but may be... just may be... I am wrong. Let's put you in Palestine for a couple of years... without any way of getting out of that hell hole... with no food, no job, no hope for the future. I'd like to see how you and your children would act. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted January 3, 2009 Author Share Posted January 3, 2009 I think I can say that I have been in a hell hole...Granted, it was NOT one with bombs going off indiscriminately....but nevertheless, I surmise that any hell hole affects one thinking.....If we have a group of people in a hell hole, we have a group of people whose thinking is off....and yeah, suicide sounds better and better than living in a hell hole...if one is going to die, better to go out with a bang than a wimper, crushed under the feet of those oppressing you...And then there are those you leave behind, who encourage you to make a statement, whose statement will make things better for those who are left behind.... Kinda makes one think just how manipulative those left behind really are...... That nuke option is looking better and better....Maybe instead we build a fence, 10 feet high, and supply guns grenades and all the bulletts they want...and wait... Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve.  George Bernard Shaw  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 They are building a fence. And the area where the fence is being built has seen a lot less suicide attacks. Of course rockets can still be shot over the fence. There are three things that really drive the quality of life. Love, friendship and socializing with other people fulfills our social instinct. Good food and, of course, water fulfills our physical appetite and thirst. Proper medical care alleviates suffering or makes it more bearable. Where we find people really suffering are places were they lack one of these things: social life, quality food, clean water and/or medical care. If the Palestinians are lacking any of these things then we can say they are living in poor conditions. There are many places in the world where these conditions exist and the people are not sending their children off as suicide bombers to alleviate them. In fact, sending your children off as suicide bombers is actually self-destructive behavior for the society. It is like the farmer eating his seed corn to stave off starvation. The argument that the Palestinians are justified in sending their children off to be suicide bombers is like saying the man with a hangnail is justified in cutting of his foot. The argument just doesn't make sense. Suicide bombers are not going to make the quality of life better for anyone. In fact, the opposite is true - as evidenced by the current retaliation from Israel. The Palestinians need to vote Hamas out of office. They need to vote in a government that will make peace with Israel and get them autonomy in the West Bank. Such a government would be able to make Palestine prosper. They can build new universities, hospitals and parks. They need a government that will focus on making their state prosper and not trying to destroy Israel. Love is a much better basis for a government than hate is. As long as the people continue to vote hate into office, I simply cannot be to sympathetic to them. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted January 3, 2009 Author Share Posted January 3, 2009 The Palestinians need to vote Hamas out of office. They need to vote in a government that will make peace with Israel and get them autonomy in the West Bank. Such a government would be able to make Palestine prosper. They can build new universities, hospitals and parks. They need a government that will focus on making their state prosper and not trying to destroy Israel. Love is a much better basis for a government than hate is. As long as the people continue to vote hate into office, I simply cannot be to sympathetic to them. But Shane, Hamas takes care of the Palestinians...when one dies, they bring food, if your loved one died a suicide bomber, you have money coming to you...if you need food, neighbors bring food to you in the name of Alla and Hammas...It's those Isrealis who bomb the palestians, and make thier lives miserable. the are the ones who disrupt trade and business. They are the ones who have made the lives of the palestinian people hard....Why should the Palestianins vote out of office those who do so much for us? That's what they are saying, Shane....You got to meet them at thier level.... Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve.  George Bernard Shaw  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted January 3, 2009 Members Share Posted January 3, 2009 And who put them in that hell hole? Hamas and all the other terrorist groups have done that to the palestinians. The palestinians need to stand up to Hamas and kick them out. You should watch the news tonight at 10 pm. I think its on Fox, they are interviewing the son of the Hamas leader. It should give all of us a better understanding! I don't condone what Israel is doing. But when the other countries or at least the terrorist organization's want you extremanated from the face of the earth, you have to stand up and do what you have to do. pk Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted January 3, 2009 Members Share Posted January 3, 2009 That's not entirely true Neil. Just recently the Palestinians went on strike because they were not getting the food and money that they were told they would get. I don't believe that Hamas is doing them any favors. There using the Palestinians as pawns in there fight with Israel. pk Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted January 3, 2009 Author Share Posted January 3, 2009 You are correct,PK..Hamas is using the palestinians as pawns...and recrutes. Hamas is getting lots of money world wide and they use it in palestine. Suicide bombers who blow themselves up, are given reasurances that thier family will be taken care of after they are gone...And there is lots of money going around...look at the guns/weapons that are bought and sold over there...and them thingys aint cheap... No, if you want to really affect Hamas, kill the $$$$$$$ flow....keep the current presure on....then things will be seen for what they truely are...as the money is dried up.. Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve.  George Bernard Shaw  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted January 3, 2009 Members Share Posted January 3, 2009 Exactly Neil. You don't hear of any Hamas people going into Israel and blowing themselves up. No they sent in the very imperishinable Palestinians. From what I have heard most of the other Arab countries would love nothing more for Israel to eleminate Hamas and Hezbollah. But of course they would never say this out in the open. By the way on the news tonight they are going to interview the son of a Hamas Leader. I believe its on FoxNews. pk Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted January 3, 2009 Members Share Posted January 3, 2009 Just found out that the interview will be on at 9 not 10 with Johnathan Hunt FoxNews. I saw a little piece of it. It should be very good. pk Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fccool Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 And who put them in that hell hole? Hamas and all the other terrorist groups have done that to the palestinians. The palestinians need to stand up to Hamas and kick them out. You should watch the news tonight at 10 pm. I think its on Fox, they are interviewing the son of the Hamas leader. It should give all of us a better understanding! I don't condone what Israel is doing. But when the other countries or at least the terrorist organization's want you extremanated from the face of the earth, you have to stand up and do what you have to do. pk He is not in Palestine. He is comfortably living outside of it, and it solves nothing but telling people how bad Hamas is, and how 350 Palestinian lives would be worth 1 life of Hamas leader. It does not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Someone needs to hear the truth about the organization. I think he is very brave. War is ALWAYS ugly and the unfortunate facts are that innocents die...that is ALWAYS sad. I wish both sides would stop but apparently Hamas has no intention of ever stopping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted January 4, 2009 Moderators Share Posted January 4, 2009 Tired of the pretty pictures from CNNMSNBCFOXCBS? WARNING: GRAPHIC VIDEO Here's a dose of reality....... http://sabbah.blip.tv/#1642223 Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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