tribeofjudah Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 I'm having a hard time explaining that these were NOT spirit beings or aliens having intercourse with human women.... Am I wrong? Gen 6:4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore {children} to them. Those were the mighty men who {were} of old, men of renown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olger Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 descendents of cain Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tribeofjudah Posted January 4, 2009 Author Share Posted January 4, 2009 I got that much.... please give me more than that. What does Bible commentaries say? What does EG White say, if any..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olger Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Well, the "men of reknown" is the same term as the Babel builders who said "Come let us make a name for ourselves." H8034. Perhaps that will help a little. `og Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tribeofjudah Posted January 4, 2009 Author Share Posted January 4, 2009 Yes, dgrimm, this is my understanding. I'm on a secular forum too and many there are pushing the writings of the ancient Sumerian which speaks of the nephilim. They truly believe that these are either fallen angels or holy angels come to earth to join with women. It's bogus to me, but I need support and evidence to stake my claim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted January 4, 2009 Moderators Share Posted January 4, 2009 Yes, dgrimm, this is my understanding. I'm on a secular forum too and many there are pushing the writings of the ancient Sumerian which speaks of the nephilim. They truly believe that these are either fallen angels or holy angels come to earth to join with women. It's bogus to me, but I need support and evidence to stake my claim. Jesus Himself said that angels don't marry. He was talking about having wives and husbands for sexual purposes. Angels don't have reproductive organs because God didn't make them so that they can reproduce. Angels don't come in different genders like humans do. Angels and humans are not even of the same species or genus. Therefore what makes anyone think that angels produce sperm, let alone sperm that would be capable of impregnating a woman? phkrause 1 Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tribeofjudah Posted January 5, 2009 Author Share Posted January 5, 2009 Thanks guys. Some people in this world just want to fantasize about alien abduction and angel/human copulation. Just proves that satan will stop at nothing to deceive everyone. phkrause 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted January 5, 2009 Moderators Share Posted January 5, 2009 Yes, like you say, it's much more exciting and interesting to a lot of people to believe those were angels than to believe they were all just ordinary, "boring" human beings. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvin mccarty Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 IF... the situation at creation was VERY good and it was not good for man to be alone why is it going to be different in the new earth? ....mel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvin mccarty Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 If they were just ordinary humans why mention it?....mel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted January 6, 2009 Moderators Share Posted January 6, 2009 IF... the situation at creation was VERY good and it was not good for man to be alone why is it going to be different in the new earth? ....mel Good question. Humans won't be alone on the new earth, but they also won't be procreating. We can't be sure what the relationships will be like, but we do know that there won't be sexual intercourse and new babies born. Why not? Because the earth will already be populated, which was the purpose of having sex and reproducing. Once the goal of filling the earth up with humans is reached, the reproduction ceases. I am sure that God will have something better and more fun for us than sex. I don't think God is going to take away something as wonderful as sex is without replacing it with something equally good if not superior. Our bodies will be different. I seriously doubt we have to use the bathroom. Our bodies will probably use all the food we eat. I'm speculating a bit here, I know. phkrause 1 Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted January 6, 2009 Moderators Share Posted January 6, 2009 If they were just ordinary humans why mention it?....mel They're in the Bible because the godly line of humans (Seth's descendants) started mating with the ungodly line (Cain's) and these produced "giants," not necessarily physical giants, but people who were "heroes, men of renown." Since it is in the context of men's increasing wickedness, we may assume that these people were not known for being nice, kind, and thoughtful. Evidently, on the contrary. Personally I believe the text is saying that this is how the human race became evil-- that the good people who were originally separated from Cain's descendants eventually intermarried with them and so became like them. By the way, the early Church Fathers shared this same understanding. I'm not using them as an authority because they were often wrong, but it is interesting that they did not believe the "sons of god" in Gen. 6 is describing angels but the children of Seth. phkrause 1 Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
messenger Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 Interesting thoughts John317, I never really thought about it, but that does make sense to me too! phkrause 1 Quote "Sanctify them by the truth" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted January 6, 2009 Members Share Posted January 6, 2009 I have also thought about that also, not the sex but the going to the bathroom! hahahaha that didn't come out exactly right but I think you understand. pk Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvin mccarty Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Well a perfect earth without seas and deserts and mountain chains and so forth could sustain how many people? Probably some multiple of a trillion! Where will they all come from? All the people who have ever lived on this earth so far would be scattered thin on a perfect earth I believe. Are you quite sure of your viewpoint?...mel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted January 7, 2009 Moderators Share Posted January 7, 2009 Are you quite sure of your viewpoint?...mel Let's hear your best argument on the basis of what the Bible and the Spirit of Prophecy tell us. Do you see any evidence, for instance, that men and women will continue to have children in heaven or on the new earth? Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvin mccarty Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Seems like God made a mistake when he made most everything on this earth sexual. Will it be only humans who become non-sexual or will every thing be that way? Where is your evidence that Adam and Eve and all the rest of creation did not have to"go to the bathroom"?...mel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morning Glory Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 John317, I am not Mel, however, I do have an opinion which does not agree with yours. My text is Isaiah 65: 17- 23, for starters. At least that is the passage that I can put my hands on quickly. Here is says that God is going to create a new heaven and earth.....verse 23 says: .......They shall not labor in vain or bring forth for trouble, for they are the seed of the blessed of the Lord, and their offspring with them." I have read the texts where Jesus says that there will not be marriage or giving in marriage in heaven.......BUT our final home will not be heaven, it will be the earth made new! So, what that says to me is that perhaps we aren't going to have all the sexual stuff to contend with during our 1000 years in heaven. We will have a lot stuff to deal with, such as the healing of the nations, judging those who are not written in the Lamb's Book of Life, etc. ( However, the thought does occur to me that there are a lot of us who just may need healing in the realm of the sexual........marital relationships that will need a LOT of repair work to be done for starters, sexual abuse victims will need a lot of healing, etc. ) But then, after the earth is re-created and evil is finally wiped away for ever, Eden will be restored to human-kind. To me that says that FINALLY we will be as perfect as Adam and Eve were before their fall, and that we will FINALLY be able to live as WHOLE men and women in the kinds of relationships that God originally meant for us to have. YAHOO!!!!! Everything that I read about the New Earth is "RESTORE, REDEEM." That doesn't mean wholesale change of the human species to me, it means exactly what the text says: restored to the original. God Bless, Morning Glory Quote Kindness is the oil that takes the friction out of life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 I like this post MG. Thanks. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted January 7, 2009 Moderators Share Posted January 7, 2009 Where is your evidence that Adam and Eve and all the rest of creation did not have to"go to the bathroom"?...mel Adam and Eve went to the bathroom, mel. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvin mccarty Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 chapter and verse please....mel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted January 7, 2009 Moderators Share Posted January 7, 2009 chapter and verse please....mel Hey, you sure you wanna see it? Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted January 7, 2009 Moderators Share Posted January 7, 2009 John317, I am not Mel, however, I do have an opinion which does not agree with yours. My text is Isaiah 65: 17- 23, for starters. At least that is the passage that I can put my hands on quickly. Here is says that God is going to create a new heaven and earth.....verse 23 says: .......They shall not labor in vain or bring forth for trouble, for they are the seed of the blessed of the Lord, and their offspring with them." I have read the texts where Jesus says that there will not be marriage or giving in marriage in heaven.......BUT our final home will not be heaven, it will be the earth made new! You better go back and re-read the passages because they don't say this is how it will be in heaven. It says that in "that age," "in the resurrection," "men and women will neither marry nor be given in marriage" because "they will be like the angels in heaven." In other words, as pointed out below, Jesus is describing how the resurrected will be after the resurrection, not simply in heaven during the 1000 years. The text makes no such distinction as you imagine. Quote: So, what that says to me is that perhaps we aren't going to have all the sexual stuff to contend with during our 1000 years in heaven. We will have a lot stuff to deal with, such as the healing of the nations, judging those who are not written in the Lamb's Book of Life, etc. ( However, the thought does occur to me that there are a lot of us who just may need healing in the realm of the sexual........marital relationships that will need a LOT of repair work to be done for starters, sexual abuse victims will need a lot of healing, etc. ) But then, after the earth is re-created and evil is finally wiped away for ever, Eden will be restored to human-kind. To me that says that FINALLY we will be as perfect as Adam and Eve were before their fall, and that we will FINALLY be able to live as WHOLE men and women in the kinds of relationships that God originally meant for us to have. YAHOO!!!!! Everything that I read about the New Earth is "RESTORE, REDEEM." That doesn't mean wholesale change of the human species to me, it means exactly what the text says: restored to the original. God Bless, Morning Glory You're getting carried away by your emotions perhaps, because Jesus made it very plain that in the resurrection and in the future age, men and women will not marry. Jesus is not just talking about heaven, but about the entire time following the resurrection. He calls it "in the resurrection" and "that age," referring to the time after people are resurrected. He says clearly that men and women will not marry or be given in marriage after the resurrection, and therefore the question of whose wife or husband someone will be is irrelevant. No distinction at all is made between heaven or the new earth. As far as marriage and sex is concerned, people will be like the angels in heaven. Also read Matt. 22: 30 and Mark 12: 25. Quote: Luke 20: 27 Then some of the Sadducees, who deny that there is a resurrection, came to Him and asked Him, 28 saying: “Teacher, Moses wrote to us that if a man’s brother dies, having a wife, and he dies without children, his brother should take his wife and raise up offspring for his brother. 29 Now there were seven brothers. And the first took a wife, and died without children. 30 And the second took her as wife, and he died childless. 31 Then the third took her, and in like manner the seven also; and they left no children, and died. 32 Last of all the woman died also. 33 Therefore, in the resurrection, whose wife does she become? For all seven had her as wife.” 34 Jesus answered and said to them, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35 But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36 nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. Quote: Mark 12: 24, 25-- 24 Jesus answered and said to them, “Are you not therefore mistaken, because you do not know the Scriptures nor the power of God? 25 For when they rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven. When they rise from the dead in the resurrection, they will be like the angels: they will neither marry nor be given in marriage. Isaiah 65 is describing what would have happened in and around Jerusalem if the Jews had accepted Christ. As it is, those verses will never be fulfilled precisely as they are written. There are similar verses in Zechariah, verse that were conditional and based on the prospect that the Jews would accept the Messiah. Unfortunately however they didn't accept Him. The plan of God isn't frustrated by the Jews' rejection of Christ-- but it does mean that some things did not happen as they would have if the Jews had accepted the Messiah. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tribeofjudah Posted January 7, 2009 Author Share Posted January 7, 2009 Nice read guys. Very lively back and forth. I'm curious now because Adam and Eve were "never" intended to graduate to become angels IF sin had never entered (in my opinion). Yet in the future, the saved, you, me, Adam and Eve do exactly that: Graduate to become like Angels..... That is AWESOME. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted January 7, 2009 Moderators Share Posted January 7, 2009 Nice read guys. Very lively back and forth. I'm curious now because Adam and Eve were "never" intended to graduate to become angels IF sin had never entered (in my opinion). Yet in the future, the saved, you, me, Adam and Eve do exactly that: Graduate to become like Angels..... That is AWESOME. Excellent point. What this means is that God took something that Satan intended to be a terrible defeat for God and mankind, and He turned it into something positive and, as you say, AWESOME-- for those who trust and obey God!! Another AWESOME thing is that as a result of the Fall, God in Christ will always be a member of the human race, making the human race that much more valuable. We're certainly not trash like Satan wants to make it appear. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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