Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted January 7, 2009 Administrators Share Posted January 7, 2009 In keeping with the speculative nature of what has been posted thus far, I would offer an alternative to the rationale that reproduction must cease at some point to avoid over-population of the earth. I would suggest that God created an inventory of overflow planets just in our solar system. It seems that they form the basis for multiple new earths to create homes for an ever recreating population. The universe is a rather large empty space with plenty of room for expansion for more solar systems with more planets to move to and inhabit. As far as pondering the possibility of no marriage in the resurrection and us being as angels, I think Jesus answer was more a curve ball answer to the Sadducees who didn't believe in a resurrection or life beyond the lifetime of man or anything beyond death. His answer was more about refuting their disbelief. I think it reasonable to deduce from Jesus answer that their question presumed limitations on God about life, death, creation and recreation. They were talking about one thing and He was trying to get them to see something else entirely - something of far greater importance. IMHO, marriage is a major element of "in the image of God", that it is a means to give mankind power to create life. (The rule referenced by the Sadducees that the brothers must marry the widow was to ensure descendants of that bloodline - reproduction or fulfilling the God given function of marriage to create continuation of life.) Creating life is a God given power but re-creating life, or resurrection, is a re-creative power held only by God and which neither man nor the angels have. So, the Resurrection is an event that only God can do. In that comparison mankind and the angels are alike, not being able to re-produce life. No amount of marriage reproduction can bring back to life the dead. (Ask any parents who have lost a child and have another baby - the new baby never takes the place of the one they lost.) Jesus was saying that their concept of marriage was wrong and limiting to God's infinite ability to renew and recreate all things on a whole new order. And I think it implied that they should not be so preoccupied with marriage and keeping the bloodlines going , but that they should believe that God can, does and will bring the dead back to life - that death is no obstacle to God's salvation of mankind. And in those terms man and angels stand equally impotent to save us from sin. Not believing in a Resurrection was a serious disbelief, more serious by far than worrying about which brother gets the wife for eternity. (See Revelation 21:4) Tom phkrause 1 Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvin mccarty Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Well really I hope we can choose cause I don't want to be an angel and I don't want to spend a thousand years mucking around considering the results of sin. Now Isaih's picture of the new earth is different I think.....mel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted January 8, 2009 Administrators Share Posted January 8, 2009 Yep, I agree. There is just no room for dogmatism on this topic... and a lot of other topics, for that matter. After more than 50 laps around the sun, I become more certain that there is little on which I can be confidently certain. The more I learn and know, the more I realize how little I really know and truly understand. Knowledge and learning is like exploring a vast universe of limitless numbers of infinite fractals. And I agree with Mel, I'd rather not become an angel, just to be all that I can be humanly without the encumberance of sin would be enough to occupy an eternity. Tom Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvin mccarty Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Tom I'm on my 92nd lap around the sun and I quite agree with you. I used to KNOW all the proof texts and all the standard answers. Now I question the relative importance of all that....mel phkrause 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tribeofjudah Posted January 8, 2009 Author Share Posted January 8, 2009 Tom I'm on my 92nd lap around the sun and I quite agree with you. I used to KNOW all the proof texts and all the standard answers. Now I question the relative importance of all that....mel 92....are you serious? Praise the Lord and may you have many more. phkrause 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted January 9, 2009 Administrators Share Posted January 9, 2009 I second that, Mel. 92 years young it seems to me. phkrause 1 Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tribeofjudah Posted January 9, 2009 Author Share Posted January 9, 2009 Regarding giants, Youtube, if you believe stuff there.... has some clip on some findings: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-8bVEIVUh8&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2k7cigzi6Y&feature=related Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
messenger Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 We have all done some speculation as to what heaven and the new earth is going to be like. But it is only speculation on our part. And from what I have found here her in the SOP is the light and truth on the subject and is in agreement with what John317 has been saying and discourages us from speculating. Happiness Guaranteed Jesus lifted the veil from the future life. "In the resurrection," He said, "they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven" [Matt. 22:30].--DA 605 (1898). {LDE 290.3} There are men today who express their belief that there will be marriages and births in the new earth, but those who believe the Scriptures cannot accept such doctrines. The doctrine that children will be born in the new earth is not a part of the "sure word of prophecy." . . . {LDE 290.4} It is presumption to indulge in suppositions and theories regarding matters that God has not made known to us in His Word. We need not enter into speculation regarding our future state.--1SM 172, 173 (1904). {LDE 290.5} Workers for God should not spend time speculating as to what conditions will prevail in the new earth. It is presumption to indulge in suppositions and theories regarding matters that the Lord has not revealed. He has made every provision for our happiness in the future life, and we are not to speculate regarding His plans for 291 us. Neither are we to measure the conditions of the future life by the conditions of this life.--GW 314 (1904). {LDE 290.6} phkrause 1 Quote "Sanctify them by the truth" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted January 9, 2009 Administrators Share Posted January 9, 2009 Well, that settles it... Next topic. Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted January 9, 2009 Moderators Share Posted January 9, 2009 Good quotes, Messenger. I believe them. phkrause 1 Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olger Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Do you live in Louisville, Mel? Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
organED Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 The word Nephilim means giant. The Bible says that. Due to the population explosion of the time between Jared and Noah that is when the Nephilim were mentioned. What makes the line of Seth particularly godly as compared to the rest of the world at that time? Why would intermixing of Seth and Cain's line produce giants? Early on Seth's line may have been good, but remember only Noah's immediate family was saved. I am sure millions of Sethites perished in the flood. In the original language of scripture, Sons of God was a term not used for human beings. How about the second iruption of Raphaim in Canaan that the Hebrews encountered? OG, king of Bashan being one of them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted January 10, 2009 Moderators Share Posted January 10, 2009 The word Nephilim means giant.... That translation of the word is based on the Greek translation, the Septuagint. The Hebrew Nephilim means "the fallen ones," which comes from naphal, "to fall." The Lexical Aids to the Complete Word Study Old Testament, p. 2341, says that the meaning is uncertain. According to the Lexical Aids: "This masc. noun has its origin in naphai (Strong's #5307)*. It means a bully, a tyrant, a giant. It appears three times in the OT. (Gen. 6: 4; Num. 13: 33 [twice]). Since the etymology is uncertain, there is much speculation among reputable scholars concerning the nature of these individuals. Until more evidence become available, perhaps it is wise to do as the RSV and NIV translations have done: render it 'Nephilim.'" From the Lexical Aids-- * Strongs # 5307-- "Naphal; to fall, be prostrate, drop; to be born; to happen; to fall away, sink; to be overthrown; to decay, to settle down, abide; to cause to fall, throw down, cast oneself down; to desist; to fall upon, attack. The main idea behind this root is a violent or accidental circumstance or event...." If we are to believe that it refers to the progeny of supernatural beings-- angels-- we must believe that angels are able to have sexual relations with humans, which obviously means that the angels would need to have reproductive organs and produce sperm that is biologically compatible with humans. It is hard to see how this would be since angels and humans are not of the same species. Moreover, Jesus said that angels do not marry or have sexual relations. It also requires us to believe that there are human beings who are, at least in part, not descended from Adam (Acts 17: 26). If we take the word to mean, "giant," how is their size related to the wickedness of the human race necessitating the destruction by a flood? Page 17 of the Complete Word Study Old Testament: "Recent archaeological evidence has suggested that the phrase 'son of God' was sometimes used to describe kings (Ex. 21: 6; 22: 8; Ps. 82: 6, 7). Therefore the 'sons of God' are immoral human kings who used their power to take as many women and whatever woman they chose.... The word 'giant' comes from the Septuagint rendering of the Hebrew Nephilim, 'the fallen ones,' which comes from naphal, 'to fall.' It is often associated with violence, and so translated 'overthrow, fall upon.' The term emphasizes their violence and lack of respect for others. However, neither the text nor the fact that they were 'giants' supports the idea that they are the result of a union between angels and human beings. No one believes that because the children of Anak, Goliath and his brothers, were giants that they were necessarily the offspring of some supernatural union." Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted January 10, 2009 Moderators Share Posted January 10, 2009 Tom I'm on my 92nd lap around the sun and I quite agree with you. I used to KNOW all the proof texts and all the standard answers. Now I question the relative importance of all that....mel And still thinking of reproduction? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm! The secret? phkrause 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvin mccarty Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Are you jealous? :-)....mel phkrause 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted January 11, 2009 Moderators Share Posted January 11, 2009 Wellllllllllll, not exactly, since the equipment still works. But when I get to be 92 I have my doubts it will still be in working order! Are you going to divulge your secret? phkrause 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeMo Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 <<BUMP>> ... At the request of wrx and Pam. I don't have the time to address this right now; but as long as one or two others are willing to discuss, I'm in for later. This particular thread is 7 years old! phkrause 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted March 19, 2016 Members Share Posted March 19, 2016 Here is the way the Tanakh translates Genesis 6:4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of the nobles would come to the daughters of man, and they would bear for them; they are the mighty men, who were of old, the men of renown. and here is Rashi's Commentary on this verse: The Nephilim: [They were called נְפִילִים because they fell (נָפְלוּ) and caused the world to fall (הִפִּילוּ) (Gen. Rabbah 26:7), and in the Hebrew language it means giants (Pirkei d’Rabbi Eliezer, ch. 22 and Targum Jonathan). in those days: in the days of the generation of Enosh and the children of Cain. and also afterward: Although they had seen the destruction of the generation of Enosh, when the ocean rose up and inundated a third of the world, the generation of the Flood did not humble themselves to learn from them. — [from Mechilta Yithro, Massechta Bachodesh 6; Sifrei Ekev 743] when…would come: They [the mothers] would bear giants like them [the fathers]. — [from Gen. Rabbah 26:7] mighty men: to rebel against the Omnipresent. — [Yelammednu, Batei Midrashoth, p. 148] the men of renown: Heb. אַנְשֵׁי הַשֵּׁם Those who were called by name: Irad, Mechujael, Methushael, who were so named because of their destruction, for they were wiped out (מְחוּיָאֵל from נִמּוֹחוּ) and uprooted; (מְתוּשָׁאֵל from הֻתָּשׁוּ). Another explanation: men of desolation (שִׁמָּמוֹן), who made the world desolate. — [from Gen. Rabbah 26:7] Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeMo Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 On 3/17/2016 at 3:18 PM, Kevin(wrx) said: Any comments JoeMo? This thread died before I joined CA. tribeofjudah asked how to explain that the nephilim were not the offspring of angels or aliens. Several people offered various alternative opinions, and the thread went off topic. I am of the opinion (not a salvational issue) that the Nephilim (or giants) described in Genesis 6 and Numbers 13 were the literal offspring of a union between supernatural beings and human women. People claim that angels are without gender, but I don't think the Bible says that. It simply says that they don't get married. These fallen angels are locked in the abyss until the events of Rev. 9 come to pass. The offspring off these unions was satan's attempt to wipe out those from whom the Savior would spring. These genetically altered "superhumans" (possibly the mythological Roman, Greek, and Celtic gods) became so prevalent in the antediluvian world that they endangered the existence of the race genetically engineered by God; so God had to take them out with the flood to preserve His brand of humanity. Unfortunately, either someone on the ark carried the Nephilim "gene", or angels mating with women continued for a while after the flood. I think it's possible that the "strange flesh" the people in Sodom and Gomorrah were after was "angel flesh". If it was gay sex they were after, it seems like there would have been enough gays around for that to happen without the angels. Numbers also mentioned Nephilim being in Canaan. I thinks it's possible that when David slayed Goliath and his brothers, he may have slain the last Nephilim in the land. Mind you, this is simply a mental construct I have developed to get my head around this. I'm not saying it's biblical truth; I'm just saying that it is the way I currently understand it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aliensanctuary Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 I like your ideas, JoeMo. My thoughts are that maybe Adam and Eve weren't the only beings colonizing the newly terraformed world. Perhaps the Nephilim came from a world circling another star in some other part of the universe. Or, due to the superior intelligence of the young race, maybe some of them genetically modified themselves into becoming giants, along with modifying lizards into becoming the giants that we call dinosaurs. I sometimes wonder that maybe Noah and family weren't the only ones rescued from the Great Flood, but other civilizations were also created to populate the Earth, but in different locations with different colored skin. Maybe the Nephilim were part of this group. Quote The Parable of the Lamb and the Pigpen https://www.createspace.com/3401451 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted January 28 Members Share Posted January 28 I see this was "bumped" once before!! Well I'm going to do it again!! Does the Bible Explain Where the Nephilim Came From? We’ve often heard fairytales of giants, but it turns out that these may have been more than fiction. The Nephilim in the Bible has been debated many times for the last few centuries. https://www.crosswalk.com/faith/bible-study/nephilim-in-the-bible.html? ps:It's funny in the article they mention that they will use some other sources, but one source that they don't have is from EGW!! So here is a link to her comments on this issue: https://ellenwhite.org/correspondence/184122 Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gustave Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 On 1/4/2009 at 11:24 AM, John317 said: Jesus Himself said that angels don't marry. He was talking about having wives and husbands for sexual purposes. Angels don't have reproductive organs because God didn't make them so that they can reproduce. Angels don't come in different genders like humans do. Angels and humans are not even of the same species or genus. Therefore what makes anyone think that angels produce sperm, let alone sperm that would be capable of impregnating a woman? That angels are spirit is true - they wouldn't have all the members, organs and parts of a perfect "man". However, the Pioneer SDA's (to include Ellen White) militantly taught that Lucifer had "flesh", just like Flesh Father has. This defaults into a real possibility of angels engaging in sexual intercourse - in SDA theology this is not only possible but likely - due to the SDA "Personality of God" Doctrine which was classified as a Pillar or Landmark Doctrine of SDA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinsonmarri Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 Well, I am back! The word Nephilim is not Biblical. Nephı̂yl/nephil is the Biblical word. The other word was made up and placed in the Bible. The Bible talks about Cain's daughter's lineage. They married Seth men and had children. They began violence like what is happening today! Simple, and the word did not refer to the tall Canaanites in Canaan. Blessings! [Yes you are back. Your long absence was due to your choice and it was not because you were prevented from coming back--Gregory Matthews.] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted February 8 Moderators Share Posted February 8 * The word "Nephilim" is in English language Bibles in Genesis 6. By telling us that word is not Biblical, you are telling us that my English language Bible is not a Bible. * The word "Nephilim" is written in the English alphabet. The ancient manuscripts of what we call the Old Testament were never written in the English alphabet. They were written in the Hebrew alphabet. * The word "Nephilim" is a transliteration from the Hebrew alphabet to the English alphabet. It does not form a new word. It is simply an additional method of writing a Hebrew word, which remains the same, in another language. * The rules for transliterating from one alphabet to another may allow for more than one spelling. I lived in South Korea for 35 months and I got to know the rules for transliterating from the Koren alphabet to the English alphabet, [NOTE: Contrary to what some may think, South Korea does have an alphabet. It actually has two systems of writing.] South Korean words had two symbols that could each be transliterated into two different English letters. One example is a South Korean letter that has been transliterated as either an "R" or as an "L." One is considered to be more correct, but both have been used. * The Hebrew word transliterated as Nephilim can also be transliterated as Nefilim, but this is not common. * While I could be wrong, I suspect that your listing of the Nephiyl/Nephil simply another form of the word, as "boys" is another form of the word "boy." Or, it could be an alternate spelling as I stated in my comment just above. phkrause 1 Quote Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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