Don't convert our children, Muslim group warns

[aldona]

From the Sydney Morning Herald...

(quote)

Don't convert our children, Muslim group warns

By Sarah Price and Lindsay Murdoch in Banda Aceh

January 9, 2005

The Sun-Herald

The arrival of an Australian Catholic priest in the tsunami-ravaged Indonesian province of Aceh has sparked a warning from a hardline Islamic group not to try to convert Muslim children.

Father Chris Riley, who heads the charity Youth Off The Streets, arrived in Aceh on Friday with plans to set up an orphanage to house some of the reported 35,000 Acehnese children whose parents are dead or missing.

But yesterday radical Islamic Defenders Front chief Hilmy Bakar Almascaty warned him to stick purely to humanitarian work in Aceh, the only Indonesian province to have fully implemented Muslim sharia law.

Father Riley said yesterday he had no interest in converting those he helped to Christianity. He said his charity was non-denominational and even had Muslims working in it.

"There is no religious component to any of our programs," he said.

There is extreme sensitivity in the largely Muslim region to any suggestion of a Christian organisation running an orphanage because of the fear it could convert the children.

Radical Islamic groups, some accused of links to terrorism, have moved supporters from all over Indonesia to Aceh to "make their presence felt" in the disaster zone.

Muslim groups in Aceh plan to set up their own orphanage for 1000 children, prompting criticism from foreign aid workers.

The Indonesian Government has given the go-ahead for the orphanage, to be set up by Muhammadiyah, the country's second-largest Muslim group, on the outskirts of devastated Banda Aceh, where more than 50,000 people died on Boxing Day.

Muhammadiyah's vice-chairman Din Syamsuddin, told The Sun-Herald yesterday his group estimated that 15,000 Acehnese children up to the age of 15 were orphaned in the disaster.

After Father Riley spent a day on the ground in Banda Aceh, his plan to set up a tent orphanage appears to have been put on hold while needs for the region are assessed.

After seeing that parts of the city were operating normally and with aid appearing to flow to children in need, his charity might look at directing its aid elsewhere.

Father Riley said the charity would put the funds where they were most needed by the victims. That might include help with orphans in more remote areas.

Father Riley arrived in Banda Aceh with state Member for Bankstown Tony Stewart. Mr Stewart phoned Father Riley in the days following the tsunami disaster asking what he was going to do to help the victims.

Father Riley said initially he felt there was nothing he could do, thinking his charity was too small.

But after the phone call he turned on the television to see an interview with a doctor, who was looking after children, only to find that, after their medical needs were taken care of, they were discharged, leaving them with nowhere to go.

"Homeless kids, that's my core business," Father Riley said. Mr Stewart was then able to secure a $100,000 donation from Clubs NSW, which was given to the charity last Monday.

(end quote)

I thought this story raised some interesting questions and things to think about.

Are Christian charities generally viewed with some suspicion by members of other religions, as a "front" for proselytizing or converting them by stealth?

What, if anything, have Christian aid organisations done or said to contribute to this view?

So far in the aftermath of the tsunami, I have contributed to ADRA, Red Cross and Medecins Sans Frontieres (which is completely non-political and non-religious).

I have been rebuked by fellow Adventists who insist that I should be giving ONLY to ADRA. I have been told that as Adventists, we have a duty to support ADRA so that it will raise the profile of that organization and the church. Sort of "seeing our good works and glorifying our Father in heaven," as the Bible says. Silly me - I thought ADRA's aim was to relieve suffering and bring aid to humanity regardless of race, religion or politics.

Any thoughts on this issue? All you folks who have contributed generously to ADRA and other Christian aid organisations - would you be willing to give an equivalent amount to Red Crescent, Muslim Aid or Muhammadiya? (Keep in mind that a huge number of those affected, particularly in Indonesia and parts of India and East Africa, are Muslim.) Why or why not?

How can we help to ensure that a disaster like this, and the subsequent aid and reconstruction, helps to break down divisions and barriers between people of different faiths rather than exacerbating those divisions?

aldona

[Ron Lambert]

There is an implicit cowardice in the determination of Muslims to use coercion to prevent anyone from being converted to Christianity. There are laws in several Muslim states making it illegal to evangelize, and visiting the death penalty on any Muslim who converts to Christianity. This shows a failure of nerve, of confidence. Muslims are afraid of the fair and open competition of ideas, where people can choose for themselves.

But must such things constitute an insurmountable barrier? We used to think that communism was an insurmountable barrier to the spread of the gospel. Then God removed the Soviet Empire without hardly a shot being fired, and International, monolithic Communism is a thing of the past. One of the last holdouts is in mainland China. But even there, the restrictions are loosening, and Christianity is spreading. Is it too much to expect that God will do something similar to open up the Muslim countries to the gospel?

Those in the past who were intimidated by International Communism, particularly the Soviet Union, were shown to be afraid of a monster that was moribund, far weaker than many supposed, vulnerable precisely because it was wrong at its core as an economic system, and their command economies were ultimately revealed not to work.

Perhaps the same will prove to be true of the Islamic mirage, that intimidates some people. Islam is wrong, and for that reason alone must ultimately fail and give way to the truth.

For now, it is enough that we minister to Muslims meeting their needs. If they want to post guards to prevent us from saying anything about our faith, so what? They cannot silence us from living our faith as we show ourselves genuinely motivated to seek their good. Sooner or later the question will eat at all the Muslims. They will see there are Christians everywhere, helping other people unselfishly. And they must wonder at some point, where are all the Muslim missionaries or relief workers willing to do good for other people unselfishly?

[bevin]

Quote:

---

There is an implicit cowardice in the determination of Muslims to use coercion to prevent anyone from being converted to Christianity. There are laws in several Muslim states making it illegal to evangelize, and visiting the death penalty on any Muslim who converts to Christianity. This shows a failure of nerve, of confidence. Muslims are afraid of the fair and open competition of ideas, where people can choose for themselves.

---

How does this differ from SDA parent's who send their children to SDA schools, SDA churches, SDA church youth groups, and who support Clifford Goldstein and his "teachers must believe and teach only SDA beliefs in close accord to the 27 Fundamentals"?

When we try to protect our children, we are good.

When they try to protect theirs, they are bad.

/Bevin

[Dr. Shane]

Sister Aldona,

The problem isn't just Christians trying to proselytize children. Muslem countries fear the parents being converted as well. That is the root of the problem.

Compare this to raising your children in the truth. Say your child has a Muslem friend that comes home and tells you that her friend's parents told her Jesus isn't really the Son of God. Would you wish your government put her parents to death? I hope not. You would most likely just share with your child the evidence which shows Jesus is the Son of God and that would be the end of it.

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />

Are Christian charities... a "front" for proselytizing... ?

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

The great commission commands us to go unto all nations and teach and baptize. Christ also teaches us to help the poor, orphanned and widowed. The two seem to go hand and hand. One isn't a "front" for the other. We are not to hide our light under a bushel.

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />

I have been rebuked by fellow Adventists who insist that I should be giving ONLY to ADRA.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

That sounds very odd. Did you know Sister White supported the Salvation Army? It sounds like your fellow Adventists are not too educated.

[Nan]

Like you Aldona I have supported ADRA and the Red Cross and MSF is one of my regular charities.

I saw the article you posted, yesterday. The priest involved has an excellent name in Sydney for his work with street kids.

Last week Sammy showed me a letter written by a Muslim lady in Indonesia - no particular connection with SDAs - who described how the Muslims have been told how bad and antagonistic the Christians are - and then it is the Christians who come to help in their time of need. It was obviously making her think and hopefully it will do the same for others.

If anyone would like the full text I will try to post it - if I have not done so already (the mind plays funny games at my age!!)

[Nicodema]

MSF and OxFam do excellent work and I have no trouble supporting them. I trust them with my charity $$.

As far as I'm aware, I can say the exact same thing about ADRA too.

These people need our prayers. All of them. No one can be converted against their will. I think if people are angry/scared about conversion it might be a case where they think they will be compelled to confess Christ in order to get a sack of rice or something -- I certainly consider those sorts of abuses deplorable. But there is nothing wrong with a loving Christian working to care for the sick and needy and sharing with them about Jesus -- leaving it entirely up to them if they want Jesus or not -- and that means NO, they are NOT required to become Christians to continue receiving help or aid. Remember Jesus healed ten lepers and only one came back to thank Him? That's our example right there. We are to do the work regardless.

[aldona]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />

There is an implicit cowardice in the determination of Muslims to use coercion to prevent anyone from being converted to Christianity. There are laws in several Muslim states making it illegal to evangelize, and visiting the death penalty on any Muslim who converts to Christianity. This shows a failure of nerve, of confidence. Muslims are afraid of the fair and open competition of ideas, where people can choose for themselves.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

How does this differ from SDA parent's who send their children to SDA schools, SDA churches, SDA church youth groups, and who support Clifford Goldstein and his "teachers must believe and teach only SDA beliefs in close accord to the 27 Fundamentals"?

When we try to protect our children, we are good.

When they try to protect theirs, they are bad.

/Bevin

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Just following on from Bevin's post...let us imagine, for a moment, that the shoe is on the other foot.

In this hypothetical scene, let us say that (for example) Melbourne has been hit by a massive natural disaster, and tens of thousands of people are dead or missing. Many children have lost their parents.

Imagine if the Imam of the local mosque says "we are horrified by this disaster and we want to do whatever we can to help - we are going to take up a collection and build an orphanage to house and care for the children who have nobody else to care for them."

Would the Christian leaders warmly thank their Muslim friends for their generosity?

Or would there be cries of "we don't want them converting our children", or "they want to take over our society", appeals to the government to stop this obvious attempt at proselytizing thinly disguised as humanitarian aid...

Sadly, judging by the image of Islam and Muslims portrayed in Western/ Christian culture and media, I suspect the latter would be the case.

And sadly, judging by what I have heard said and seen written by Adventists (here in Australia, anyway), the humanitarian work of ADRA really IS all about raising the profile of the Adventist Church.

Any time there is a disaster and ADRA helps out, all I hear is "How wonderful - What a great witness to the world about our church and how good it is." There is constant complaining about how ADRA does not receive enough publicity, is not given a high enough profile in the media, does not advertise enough what it does. To borrow a Biblical metaphor, the pharisee is not sounding his trumpets loud enough when he conspicuously gives to charity in the street.

Just about every Adventist I have spoken to since the disaster has emphasized what a great opportunity this is for ADRA, how more and more people will hear our message now, and the church will be able to enter more unreached places and gain more members. If I say that I am supporting a particular initiative of MSF or Red Cross because I think it is important or fills a particular need that the disaster victims might have, I am seen as having wasted an opportunity for evangelism by not channeling that money to ADRA. (and yes, some have actually said so, in virtually those words).

Our Muslim friends are right. We really are out to convert their children under the guise of aid. Would we have the courage to show that this is not so, by giving the money directly to a mosque or to Red Crescent so that they can feed and house their own orphans? Or by going into an area of need and working to relieve human suffering without plastering the church/ADRA logo all over everything we do and without telling anyone which religion we belong to? Or is it more important to give these kids "a Christian environment"?

The people out there are not stupid. They can tell the difference between genuine, unbiased and loving service and that which is done only to further the interests of the giver and their organisation. They have been deprived of everything - housing, food, family, and the means of earning a living. The only thing they might have left is their faith - and the surely do not appreciate it when the "missionaries" come and try to take that from them as well.

sorry if my tone is descending further and further into cynicism - have seen too many instances in the last couple of weeks where charity is being used as a front for furthering one's own agenda (not just in the church/ADRA, but in the news and the world of politics).

aldona

[Dr. Shane]

Sister Aldona, you seem to have a very negetaive attitude about your church and indeed all of Christiandom. That is sad. It makes me wonder why you are even a Christian. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />

Our Muslim friends are right. We really are out to convert their children under the guise of aid.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

We are out to convert the world, Sister Aldona. And that is not a bad thing. That is a good thing. It is about bringing souls into the kingdom of God. It is about bringing the message of God's grace to the world. It is about opening the eyes of the blind and losening the chains of the prisoners. Islam is a false religion. It is steeped in legalism. Bringing the message of salvation to a muslem is not anything to be ashamed of. However I echo what Sister Nico said, we share our faith not force it on anyone. We offer the fountain of Living Water to anyone who wishes to drink from it.

What if the show was on the other foot? What if we experienced a natural disaster and Muslems or Budhists wanted to come and serve us? Would I object to them handing my children a pamplet about their faith or inviting them to a movie about their faith? Not at all. However if that were to occur, the Christian churches would be having many services explaining why the Muslems and/or Budhists are a false religion. The truth has nothing to fear. It is the devil who rules by fear.

[aldona]

Shane, my negative attitude is not about Christianity in general. I am happy being a member of my faith and I have no plans to change.

What I get angry about is the same thing that Jesus spoke against - the "pharisees" who loudly parade their charity in public, sounding trumpets as they go, as if it shows the world how good they are. I am also troubled by those who take advantage of people at their most vulnerable, when they have lost everything except their faith in God (as they understand Him), and proceed to undermine even that, in the disguise of "helping".

If we help our neighbor, it is because we love him/her and we are genuinely concerned and want to help.

It is not because it is our "duty" to help.

It is not because by helping others will "see our good works and glorify our Father in heaven."

It is not because by helping we raise the profile of ADRA and paint a good picture of the church.

It is not because by helping we get a "foot in the door" so that later we can "set them straight" about the Sabbath, the state of the dead and second coming.

It is not to "prove" that we are "better" than other religions.

We are called to make disciples of all nations and to win them to Christ. This is not the same as converting them to our denomination. It is not the same as making sure they have "the right facts". If we are consistently living in a way that shows the character of Christ, people will flock to us as they did to Him. Did not Ellen White say that if we were loving, kind and merciful there would be a thousand converts where today there is one?

The more time I spend with Muslim people and the more I talk to them and listen to what they believe and their history, the less inclined I am to demonise them and call them a false religion. God will judge every person according to what they have done with the light that has been given to them, and I look forward to seeing many of my Muslim friends in heaven. (waiting for the predictable chorus of dismay from well-meaning Christians eager to point out to Muslims that WE know what and whom THEY believe better than they do.)

Some time in the next week, my husband is organizing a meeting with the Imam of our local mosque. (after many discussions about our respective beliefs, our Muslim neighbor realized there were a lot of questions we were asking that he could not answer as well as the Imam could.)

The aim of the meeting is not for anyone to convert the other, but to explore what we have in common - what they believe about the Biblical patriarchs and prophets, such as Abraham, Noah, Adam and John the Baptist - and what their understanding is of the role of Jesus and last day events.

We are doing this because we are interested and want to understand better where our friends are coming from - it is called DIALOG, which works both ways instead of US on our exalted position ON HIGH laying down THE FACTS and telling them what they are to believe.

And even if we never "convert" our neighbors - in the sense of "changing a set of facts in their mind so that they join our religion" - I would still like to contribute to any aid efforts that the mosque is conducting for the disaster victims, even if it takes the spotlight off ADRA for a moment.

aldona

[aldona]

An update from today's newspaper (The Australian)...

(quote)

Aid groups warned against preaching

Drew Warne-Smith

11jan05

CHRISTIAN-BASED humanitarian aid groups in Muslim-dominated Aceh are a volatile presence that could threaten the uneasy peace that has settled over the devastated Indonesian province.

Jamie Isbister, project manager with Catholic welfare agency Caritas Australia, warned yesterday that Western aid agencies needed to ensure relief efforts were not misread as an attempt to convert locals away from Islam.

Mr Isbister returned to Sydney at the weekend after a reconnaissance mission to Aceh's west coast, which bore the brunt of the Indian Ocean tsunami two weeks ago.

With an estimated 35,000 children left as orphans or disconnected from family, there were also fears orphanages built by aid groups could be used to introduce them to Christianity, Mr Isbister said.

"With the history of religious tensions in Aceh, it is a concern that Muslim groups think that we might want to convert people -- or get access to children to bring them up a certain way," he told The Australian.

While the major aid groups had healthy and pre-existing relationships with Muslim groups in Aceh, the situation could quickly unravel if aid workers did not display religious sensitivity, he said. "I would certainly say it is a volatile situation. It could swing one way or the other."

His comments came as Father Chris Riley, a Catholic priest and chief executive of Australian charity Youth Off the Streets, vowed to press ahead with plans to build an orphanage in Aceh amid accusations that he planned to convert children to Catholicism.

Father Riley, in Aceh with a logistics team meeting local authorities and community leaders, denied the claims and said his group was not linked to any religion. "It's pretty well known that I don't try to convert people and we do work with Muslim kids in Australia," he told the Nine Network.

The head of the hardline Islamic Defenders Front, Hilmy Bakar Almascaty, has warned him to provide only humanitarian aid.

Father Riley said locals had also been warned that they would be attacked if they worked alongside him.

There were also reports yesterday that several evangelical aid groups operating in Asia, such as the Gospel for Asia, Southern Baptists International Mission Board and the Christian and Missionary Alliance, were maintaining that the Bible compelled them to find converts to their faith -- including those still suffering from the tsunami.

Gospel for Asia president K.P.Yohannan said 14,500 native missionaries in Sri Lanka, India and the Andaman Islands were giving survivors Bibles and booklets on finding God. "This is one of the greatest opportunities God has given us to share his love with people," he said.

In Australia, international aid agencies such as the Red Cross, Oxfam, World Vision and Caritas are regulated by an independent industry body, the Australian Council For International Development. As signatories to a "no strings attached" code of conduct, they are prevented from inculcating either religion and politics while delivering aid.

Council director Graham Tupper said he was confident all Australian aid agencies were complying with the code.

(end quote)

[Dr. Shane]

Christians have been trying to convert nonChristians since Pentecost and Christians have been helping nonChristians since Pentecost. Christians take the Great Commission seriously. That is who we are.

Using humanitarian aid as a tool to reach souls for Christ is the right way to do it. Using the sword is the wrong way. The only Christians doing anything wrong now during this disaster relief are those that are hiding their light under a bushel.

[Dr. Shane]

Look at how Jesus handled the woman at the well. He came straight out and told her that her religion was in error and the Jews were right! Was that unsensative of Him or was that our Example?

When you have Jesus in your heart not only do you want to help others in need, you can't keep from sharing Jesus with them. Do you know that there are many homeless shelters that require the homeless to listen to a sermon before they can sleep in a warm bed? And did you that because of that many souls have been added to the kingdom of heaven?

Forcing others to accept our faith is wrong. Making our aid dependant upon whether they accept our faith is wrong. Using our help as a means to share our faith with them is just, right and good. It is what Christ would have us do. To offer them temporal aid without the eternal is neglecting one's Christian duty to humanity.

[Ron Lambert]

Of course parents have a right to provide religious guidance for their children, UNTIL those children reach the age where they are able to choose for themselves. Laws in several Muslim nations threaten to kill any adult Muslim who converts to Christianity.

As for tsunami victims, who has parental rights to orphans? Do Muslims have the right to say to Christian missionaries "do not covert our children" when there are no Muslim parents? If Muslims don't like the fact that Christian missionaries feel called of God to uphold Jesus even as they minister to the needs of such orphans, then why don't we see any Muslim missionaries out there ministering to "their" children?

I would suggest that if you save someone's life, you earn the right to share Jesus with them, no matter who disapproves.