Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted March 1, 2009 Moderators Share Posted March 1, 2009 What is the SDA Reform Movement? Is it the one that has their HQ in Calif? Strong believers in SOP? Many of whom meet in house churches? The same one that resisted Hitler in Germany while the "official" SDA Church there capitulated to Hitler? I heard someone say that EGW is unmentionable in the "official" SDA church circles in Germany, but that the Reform Movement accepts her? Gerry, the origin of both groups goes back the pre-Hitler days in Europe. Certainly Hitler added to their beginning. As to the role of EGW in the GErman SDA Chruch, I would not credit the Reform Movement for that situation. There are other reasons, in my mind, for the role that EGW may play in the European SDA Chuch. NOTE: I am not certain as to exactly what EGW's role in in the European chruch. So, I am not automaticly accepting what you have said. Quote Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 What is the SDA Reform Movement? Is it the one that has their HQ in Calif? Strong believers in SOP? Many of whom meet in house churches? The same one that resisted Hitler in Germany while the "official" SDA Church there capitulated to Hitler? I heard someone say that EGW is unmentionable in the "official" SDA church circles in Germany, but that the Reform Movement accepts her? They are a huge huge problem for many SDA pastors and churches! They take not only EGW but the Bible to extremes and believe things that neither the Bible nor EGW teach. Their wish is not so much to "save the world" but to "drag people out of the SDA church into their movement. Many times, in countries oversase, I have seen people from this group be very opinionated and unkind to anyone who does not agree with them. They have split many churches in half. I am sure there are sincere people in this movement but for the most part they do not resemble the SDA church in their attitude or extreme beliefs. It seems they often resort to "brainwash tactics" to get sincere SDA's separated from their churches and into their little "reformed group". I have seen a lot of this first hand. I know God loves them but they are a big problem in many places, create controversy, and discontent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted March 1, 2009 Moderators Share Posted March 1, 2009 Is that a split that occurred some time back or is it something that's happened in the last 10 years or so? Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted March 3, 2009 Moderators Share Posted March 3, 2009 The split in their group is not recent, but I do not recall the date. Quote Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted March 3, 2009 Moderators Share Posted March 3, 2009 Tylor, I have followed them for about 50 years. But, that does not make me an expert. I have mainly experienced them in the U.S. One of their groups has a local Conference HQ located here in Denver. Your story as to how you have experienced them fits with how I used to experience them many years ago. But, it does not fit how I experience them today. I do not see them sending pickets to march with signs and hand out literature at our churches, campmentings and other meetings. I have seen that in the past, but I do not see it today. I can telephone them talk to their leaders and they will be polite and responseive to my questions. I have experienced aggressive leaders in the past, but I do not see that today. As to foreign countries: You probably have more experience in that area than I have. I have lived in foriegn countries. I once lived in Panama. In that country I saw real problems for our pastors, members and denominational leadershlip that came from what I will call splinter groups. But, I did not identify those groups with any specific group. So, I do not know the extent to which those people were affiliated with the so-called Reform groups. As I sometimes said: Within weeks of a charge or publication being made in the U.S. it would be translated into Spanish and circulated in Panama. It would take six months or more for leadership to be able to get material out to the pastors and members to respond to what the splinter groups had translated and widely distributed. So, I am not really arguing with your postion. I am simply stating that my experience differs somewhat from yours. My present thinking is that in the U.S. the Reform SDA groups are not much of a problem for the U.S. chruches. But, I may be wrong. I see more problems comming from splinter groups that spring up and are not affiliated with anyone other them themselves in any major way. Quote Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted March 3, 2009 Moderators Share Posted March 3, 2009 Ok, thanks. I am interested in them somewhat because I worked with a member of the Reform Movement and they actually have one of their few churches on the West Coast only a few miles from me. I've attended of a few Sabbaths and also a series of meetings on the Spirit of Prophecy, which I really enjoyed. One of their elders gave me about 10 small books on their history, etc. I have only read two. Their local church here has only about 50 members if that. My impression is that they have little outreach into the community but all of their efforts are in convincing SDAs to join them. They basically believe the same as we do, but they do have some differences, and it's those differences that bother me. I'm not in agreement with them on the 144,000, the military, and making Ellen White and vegetarianism tests of fellowship. I also don't believe our church is "fallen," although I know we have serious problems, of course. (What church does not?) The members of the Reform Movement here have only been very kind to me and not negative at all. They tell me that they don't believe that the SDA church is Babylon, but they do say that many of our pastors and churches teach false doctrine, which is not news to me. I have noticed that all of the pastors in the local church are from Romania. I wondering if this is typical. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Gail Posted March 3, 2009 Administrators Share Posted March 3, 2009 I was talking with a SDA Reform today. He's a very nice man, German descent. His whole family comes regularly and buys many, many books from us. Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Tylor, I have followed them for about 50 years. But, that does not make me an expert. I have mainly experienced them in the U.S. One of their groups has a local Conference HQ located here in Denver. Your story as to how you have experienced them fits with how I used to experience them many years ago. But, it does not fit how I experience them today. I do not see them sending pickets to march with signs and hand out literature at our churches, campmentings and other meetings. I have seen that in the past, but I do not see it today. I can telephone them talk to their leaders and they will be polite and responseive to my questions. I have experienced aggressive leaders in the past, but I do not see that today. As to foreign countries: You probably have more experience in that area than I have. I have lived in foriegn countries. I once lived in Panama. In that country I saw real problems for our pastors, members and denominational leadershlip that came from what I will call splinter groups. But, I did not identify those groups with any specific group. So, I do not know the extent to which those people were affiliated with the so-called Reform groups. As I sometimes said: Within weeks of a charge or publication being made in the U.S. it would be translated into Spanish and circulated in Panama. It would take six months or more for leadership to be able to get material out to the pastors and members to respond to what the splinter groups had translated and widely distributed. So, I am not really arguing with your postion. I am simply stating that my experience differs somewhat from yours. My present thinking is that in the U.S. the Reform SDA groups are not much of a problem for the U.S. chruches. But, I may be wrong. I see more problems comming from splinter groups that spring up and are not affiliated with anyone other them themselves in any major way. I respect your opinion and would say that for the USA you are on the button. However, I could tell you stories first hand in the last 5 years of real problems oversease. (maybe not like in years previous, I am not sure, but still very real and ongoing problems.) They may not "picket" any more like they might have at a GC session years ago, but they are still causing a lot of problem in certain countries(not in all). I know God loves them and I do not despise them, but it is disconcerting seeing the trouble they have caused in other countries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted March 4, 2009 Moderators Share Posted March 4, 2009 I can not speak to other countries as you have more experince there than I have. Quote Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 No problem. There are a ton of things you know way more than I do about. I just have had first hand experience due to what I do in life for work. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted March 14, 2009 Moderators Share Posted March 14, 2009 Are the members in these splinter groups included in the 16 mil we say we have? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 If their names be on the books of the Seventh day Adventist Church ... then yes they would be part of the 16 mil. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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