AIPAC

[carolaa]

Maybe this is one reason why the Palestinians are so angry with Israel (from today's DN!):

Suit: Israel Stealing West Bank Resources

Meanwhile, an Israeli human rights group has filed a High Court challenge seeking to block Israeli digging in the occupied West Bank. The group, Yesh Din, claims Israeli mining in the West Bank amounts to a robbery of Palestinian resources. Yesh Din attorney Michael Sfard said Israel is violating international law.

Michael Sfard: “The natural resources that are digged out of the earth in the West Bank is transferred into Israel for the benefit of the Israeli construction market. This is, of course, an illegal enterprise. It violates the very basic principles of international law and laws of belligerent occupation. It is also immoral, because we’re literally swallowing chunks of the earth of the West Bank that belongs to the people of the West Bank and for their future development.”

According to Yesh Din, 75 percent of the resources mined by Israeli companies in the West Bank are being transferred to Israel. Some of the remaining gravel is being used to construct new Israeli settlements that further carve up Palestinian land.

[carolaa]

Here's more from today's Al Jazeera:

Max Blumenthal, a blogger and journalist for the Daily Beast website who has been following Freeman's nomination process, told Al Jazeera that his withdrawal was "a catastrophic defeat for the Obama administration".

"What happened is the Israel lobby won," he said.

"What [Freeman] said that I think is most remarkable in his statement, is that apparently the Obama administration will not be able to dictate its own Mideast policy and he places the blame for this squarely on the Israel lobby."

Blumenthal said that the Israel lobby had "been furiously emailing sympathetic reporters, smearing him [Freeman] in public" and that "political decisions came into play with respect to [Freeman's] views on Israel and essentially his appointment was torpedoed".

This was the Israel lobby's "first all-out fusillade and they succeeded because they knew that Freeman would be dispensable to political elements in the White House that needed to court the Israel lobby, needed their money for senate races", he said.

[Woody]

I would not consider Al Jazeera as the best source.

Even F_ _ ought to be considered better than AL Jazeera.

I occasionally will listen to Al Jazeera ... but not often.

[carolaa]

I don't know why you would say that, but I guess everyone is entitled to his/her opinion.

[phkrause]

Here's a few statements about Freeman: "Opposition to Mr Freeman expanded as it was learned that members of the Saudi royal family financed his think tank, and that he served on the board of a Chinese state oil company." "Human rights activists and others also cited comments by Mr Freeman that appeared to claim that China's 1989 Tiananmen Square massacre, in which Chinese forces killed hundreds of student protesters, was justified." From what I've read about him it looks to me that he is very pro-arab, and very anti-jew. I wont go as far as saying that he's anti-semitic. I'll let others say that. I don't believe that the Jewish Lobby is that bad. If it was not for them, the US would never have gotten into WW2 with germany. And Hitler would have murdered many more than 6 million jews and 4-5 million others also. I know why the republicans are so pro Israel. But the democrat's have no such agenda. I used to work for this printing company, that had equipment that was made in Israel. And they had Palestinians and Israelis that worked side by side. They all said that the Israelis are all for the Israelis allowing the palestinians living with them, and israelis moving out of gaza and the west bank. Its the other arab countries that wont allow the palestinians to agree to the peace treaties. When I say the other arab countries I really the terrorist organizations.

pk

[Woody]

Obama sure has made some strange choices of people to work for him.

[phkrause]

I do agree with that Redwood.

pk

[carolaa]

I wonder why it is Israel who keeps breaking the peace treaties then. And why Israel keeps expanding into Palestinian land.

[carolaa]

I'm not sure this has to do with AIPAC, but it's basically on the same subject. This was from today's Democracy Now! headlines:

Obama Conditions Palestinian Aid on Recognizing Israel’s “Right to Exist”

In Israel and the Occupied Territories, the Obama administration has announced it will withdraw its entire $900 million aid pledge if the pending Palestinian unity government doesn’t recognize Israel’s “right to exist.” The warning was reportedly delivered by Secretary of State Hillary Clinton to Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas last week. Clinton told Abbas the US Congress won’t approve Palestinian aid unless the Palestinian government also renounces violence. No such conditions have been imposed on Israel. The Israeli government refuses to renounce violence and has never recognized the right of Palestine to exist. Palestinians have also criticized the demand they recognize Israel’s “right to exist” because it forces them to go beyond recognizing Israel within secure borders, but in fact affirm the legitimacy of their dispossession and ongoing occupation.

[phkrause]

As far as I know Israel has never not recognize the palestinians, never commited terrorist acts against the palestinians, and never broke any cease fires. As a matter of fact they always waited and waited before they have decided to retaliate. This last cease fire, in 2008, Israel allowed Hamas to fire rockets for almost 5 months before they went in to Gaza. The present cease fire has already been broken a few times by Hamas.

pk

[carolaa]

Israel refuses to let the Palestinians have their own land. Even though they sign "peace" agreements, they continue to steadily encroach into Palestinian land. They are holding over a million people hostage in Gaza. They are like caged animals who cannot come or go - not for education or medical treatment or anything - and Israel will not let most humanitarian aid into Gaza, even though it has basically been turned into a war zone.

It has been pretty well established that it was Israel who broke the 7-month long cease-fire in 2008.

I'm not saying the Palestinians have no fault, but they certainly have some legitimate grievances against Israel, and yet we continue to unequivocably support Israel no matter what they do.

[carolaa]

Finally, we are beginning to speak, but will we follow it up with action? Very doubtful, imo.

From today's Democracy Now! headlines:

US Complains to Israel on Gaza Blockade

The US has again complained to Israel over the blockade of aid supplies to the Gaza Strip. The State Department agency USAID says Israel has prevented goods including jam, toothpaste and toilet paper. On Thursday, Israel rejected a shipment of tuna, canned meat, diapers, wet wipes, sterile gauze, blankets, candles and flashlights.

[jasd]

Quote:

Quote:pkrause

...never commited terrorist acts against the palestinians,

Umm, true? I recall the reported activities of the Stern, Irgun, and Haganah – gangs of terrorists. They targeted, among others – specifically – Palestinians. But, more than that, I also recall ‘our ally’,

the State of Israel - committed the terrorist act of strafing, bombing, and otherwise attempting to sink our ‘communications’ vessel, the USS Liberty; during which course, State of Israel’s fighter jets and torpedo boats killed 30-plus and wounded 170-plus of our sailors. Oy! was that your ship? Really? :-o

One woulda thunk that 9 to 13 overflights during a 6 and a half hour period would have proved sufficient for the State of Israel’s Air Force to have noticed that the ship was flying the all too familiar Stars and Stripes – not to mention – the designated USS Liberty painted on its bow... Ah well, I s’pose it was too much

to expect the State of Israel’s Intelligence Service – to be able to confirm the identity of the USS Liberty with only 9-13 overflights...

It might prove interesting should you wish to acquaint yourself with the particulars of the event – such as the fact that after our sailors attempted to abandon ship by placing the wounded in the three remaining life rafts and lowering them into the Mediterranean, the State of Israel’s Torpedo boats fired upon the defenseless wounded, destroying two of the rafts and ‘capturing’ the remaining one.

Geneva Convention, anyone? or is State of Israel an outlaw nation? ...and AIPAC, a lobbying arm of that State? Ain that sorta like an American National having dual citizenships? ...don’t sound all that kosher, tah me.

No wonder Ariel Sharon could emphatically state, over public airwaves, that, “ The State of Israel owns America, and they know it!” [/paraphrased]

Summarizing: State of Israel is not above committing acts of terrorism. Their history proves that they do not hesitate to employ terrorism as an expedient tool. Acknowledging that, the question follows:

“What other ‘tools’ would they utilize, hesitantly or not?”

[phkrause]

Well jasd I would also like to see those reports. If people consider retaliation as a terrorist act, so be it. Also the policy of Israel is alot different than the palestinians (hamas). The palestinians (hamas) agenda is to kill all jews, from the day they are born there taught to hate jews, when Jews are born there taught to be the best they can be. Not saying that all that the Israelis do is honorable.

pk

[jasd]

>>If people consider retaliation as a terrorist act, so be it.<<

Interesting, in that it were the Palestinians who were dispossessed. So, to have it your way,

the attacks against present State of Israel - are justified.

Though, admittedly, the Palestinians have cause to gripe, one can hardly sympathize with much of their activities; such as, the incessant terrorist bombings and the ineffective launching of backyard rockets into the State of Israel - not smart. So, having noted the above,

one cannot hold the Palestinians entirely blameless for repercussions... That, however,

does not excuse Israel their own atrocities. One cannot, in fairness, simply dismiss them.

Per my referencing the USS Liberty incident:

it is an unfortunate lack of appreciation on the part of the State of Israel - to commit such egregious acts against America (the Pollard case being but one example). Let's remember,

that it was the arm-twisting by the United States – of smaller and weaker members of the UN, which secured a Jewish national home. We even threatened the not-so-small nations of Greece and France – in ‘lobbying’ for a Jewish national homeland. We, almost single-handedly,

provided for the existence of the present State of Israel.

[/extemporaneously recollected]

>>...from the day they are born there taught to hate jews,<<

Does, or does not, Talmud include Palestinians as those considered dogs?

Disabuse me should I err.

[carolaa]

I'm just wondering if anyone else has seen the "Pray for Gaza" billboards, or if they are only in my area.

[Woody]

In my area ... I just see the Support Israel signs.

[carolaa]

I think if this is true that the majority are against the bailout, than I would say the american people are very fickle. They first were for Bush going into Iraq and than when it dragged on, all of a sudden there were against Bush. Now without even waiting to see if this is going to work, they are already against it. Wow very fickle.

pk

Yes, the American people are fickle, no doubt about it. But Bush also sold them a bill of goods on Iraq. The reasons for going in turned out not to be true. The quick "victory" (whatever that means) that he predicted did not happen. Bush's M.O. was to create a sense of urgency, and Congress fell for it again and again - clear up to the end with the Wall Street bailout.

[Woody]

The extremists will point out that the reasons for going in turned out to not be true. This is simply a fabrication. Most of the many reasons for going in ... did turn out to be true. I am not aware of any reasons for going in that were proven to be false. There were some that may have doubt. But I have not seen any proof that some were false.

[carolaa]

I used to work for this printing company, that had equipment that was made in Israel. And they had Palestinians and Israelis that worked side by side. They all said that the Israelis are all for the Israelis allowing the palestinians living with them, and israelis moving out of gaza and the west bank. Its the other arab countries that wont allow the palestinians to agree to the peace treaties. When I say the other arab countries I really the terrorist organizations.

pk

Israel does not need the Palestinians' permission to move out of Gaza and the West Bank. They will not move out because they want to continue their expansion.

I don't doubt that many of the Israeli citizens are fine with Palestinians living with them. But I don't see this happening much more with Netanyahu and Lieberman in charge.

[Neil D]

The extremists will point out that the reasons for going in turned out to not be true. This is simply a fabrication. Most of the many reasons for going in ... did turn out to be true. I am not aware of any reasons for going in that were proven to be false. There were some that may have doubt. But I have not seen any proof that some were false.

This is another diversion of railroading from AIPAC to Iraq.....

Come on, Red...You're good at starting conversations....start some new threads so as to stay on topic....

[Woody]

Butt off Neil. I didn't start the Iraq discussion. Check your facts before inserting foot.

And I do have to ask you to obey the rules established for this forum. If you have an issue with me ... send a PM.

You are a 'moderator' ... so I know that you know better .

[carolaa]

Here's a little excerpt from an article written back in 2000 titled "You and Me Against the World" (referring to Israel and the U.S.):

"...It never fails that whenever the United Nations General Assembly that includes almost all of the world’s nations takes up the Palestinian issue, the entire world votes to condemn Israel while the only two countries voting against these resolutions are you guessed---AMERICA AND ISRAEL. According to Israeli logic---the entire world is ANTISEMITIC and hates Israel. I wonder why the entire world hates Israel and by extension hates us?

"Does that explain why the world is up in arms against us, killing our military and diplomatic personnel, committing terrorist acts, burn our flag, want to boycott our products, even want to go to war against us—all because we’re DUMB enough and cowardly enough to succumb to America’s powerful Jewish lobby?..."

Link - http://www.mediamonitors.net/khodr2.html

[phkrause]

Your right carolaa, Netanyahu has no love for the palestinians. But you know that he has always been correct about what they would do all these years. He has always been able to predict what hamas and hezbollah would do, after each cease fire. Back in 2006 when Israel did a cease fire, he predicted that within a few years hezbollah would be back with more determination and they did. And the same for hamas, after the last ceasefire he said hamas would end the cease fire and do more damage. He's also said the same thing this time too, saying that Israel didn't do enough to weaken hamas and thinks they will be back stronger than ever. I agree it doesn't look like its going to get better anytime soon. I feel bad for both sides. The palestinians because they allow hamas to dictate what they should do. And Israel for not doing what they need to do, moving out of the west bank and all the other places they need to be moving out of.

pk

[carolaa]

Here are a couple excerpts from another article by the same author as I posted earlier today. (I was thinking I got this link from someone on this forum, and I like to give credit where credit is due, but now I can't find the post that had it.) This one was written back in November 2001:

"The long history of bipartisan Congressional support for Israel led former Secretary of State James Baker to call the Congress "The Little Knesset" after Israel's Knesset (parliament) in Jerusalem. Congress's embarrassing and unpatriotic display of allegiance to a foreign country that is dependent on American largesse and support is the unknown scandal to the American people. With the media's strong, biased and sympathetic portrayal of Israel while simultaneously denying any opposing view of Israel or human pictures and stories of the endless suffering of Palestinians, its no wonder that we the American people are so unaware of the true face of Israel. Thus shockingly but not surprisingly only 4% of the American people are aware of Israel's 34 year brutal military occupation of the Palestinian people.

Only at times of war and threat upon the U.S. does our Senate ever exhibit the strong bipartisanship support of America it regularly provides Israel...

For the first time Bush uttered the word a 'Palestinian state' (is it conceivable that the President of the most powerful nation on earth doesn't even dare utter these two words). Powell has repeatedly criticized Israel for its assassination policy, its house demolitions, its invasion of Palestinian controlled territory, while he and Bush have repeatedly asked Sharon to pull out of Palestinian territory, Sharon simply ignored them and even compared them to Nazi appeasers. None of Sharon's rebuttals of the American President during this crisis even generated any criticism from our brave Congress. No one can imagine any other country able to tell its benefactor 'take your demands and shove it.'"

Link - http://www.mediamonitors.net/khodr49.html