Is It Possible to Live Without Sinning?

[John317]

Is-it-Possible-to-Live-Without-Sinning?

by Joe Crews

Recently I read the amazing account of a man who submitted to a scientific hypnosis experiment. While under the influence of a light hypnotic trance the subject was ordered to pick up a glass from the table. Although he was a strong, athletic type, the man could not budge the glass from its position. His most strenuous exertions could not lift the glass that was light enough for any child to remove.

Why could he not do it? Because the scientists, after placing him in the trance, had told him that it was impossible to pick up the glass. Because his mind was convinced that it could not be done, his body was unable to carry out the command to lift it. What a dramatic demonstration that no person can really obey commandments which he believes to be impossible of performance!

Is this the reason so many Christians are living weak, defeated lives? There is no question that the popular, modern theology has been teaching millions that no one can really live without sinning. The Ten Commandments have been portrayed as an idealistic code produced only for the purpose of making people conscious of their need.

Many modern Christians are turning more and more to a soft, lenient stance on the subject of law-keeping. They believe God’s love is incompatible with strict rules and penalties for violation.

That is a very comfortable doctrine but completely foreign to what the Bible teaches. Millions are being conditioned to break the great moral law of the universe—without feeling any guilt! The Word of God gives no one an excuse to feel relaxed about sin. It is the central problem of every person who has been born. Like a highly contagious disease, sin has infected every soul with the germs of death, and no earthly cure or deterrent has been found to halt the fatal progress of the sickness.

From the first appearance of sin in the Garden of Eden it has been totally disruptive of everything good. Never in one instance has it been able to coexist with righteousness and holiness. The requirements of God make it utterly impossible for sin or disobedience to be a part of the Christian lifestyle. The new tolerance for it is not biblical in any sense of the word. Jesus came to save people from it; He came to destroy it. It will never enter into heaven. Our attitude toward it must be uncompromising. There can be no question of making it more acceptable by diminishing the amount of it or changing its form. It must be destroyed. And the only means of eradicating it is by receiving the fullness of Jesus Christ and His grace into the life.

How strange it is that so many church members have now become apologetic for sin, as though it cannot be prevented from triumphing in the life of a Christian. How dare we misrepresent the power of God’s grace in the gospel! Jesus has already defeated the devil, and no Christian should be intimidated by an inferior, defeated foe. We have no business justifying the transgression of the Ten Commandments.

It is serious enough to engage willfully in an act of sin, but it is infinitely more deadly to defend it as something which cannot be prevented. To say that victory is impossible is to deny the adequacy of the gospel and to negate a large portion of the inspired Scriptures. In addition, it adds support to the original charge of Satan against God, and gives a paralyzing, false security to everyone who believes in it.

Often people are defensive of sin because they have not been able to stop doing it in their own strength. For example, when they can’t stop smoking, they must find a rationalization for its presence in their lives. Instead of making the humiliating confession that they can’t conquer it, they fabricate arguments that it really doesn’t hurt them or that no one can be perfect. Or the popular, convenient doctrine that no one can really live without sin anyway.

It is probably safe to say that the majority of Christians today are resigned to falling short of the moral law. In fact, they are quite satisfied that God doesn’t even expect them to fulfill that law completely, either in the flesh or in the spirit.

The effect of such a teaching is exactly what one would expect—multitudes of emotionally happy, but disobedient, church members who feel that any concern about keeping the commandments is nitpicking and legalistic.

What a delusive strategy of Satan! As the inventor of the doctrine, the evil one is simply supporting his ancient accusation that God was asking too much. He accused God of being unfair by requiring something that was impossible.

He was able to convince a third of the angels that God was unreasonable to expect obedience to His law, and he has been trying to make everybody else believe it since that time. Think about it for a moment, and the entire scheme begins to make a lot of diabolical sense. Satan knows that sin is the only thing that will keep anyone out of heaven. Since sin is the “transgression of the law,” he had to perfect a plan to make people look lightly upon breaking the law and also cause it to appear unobjectionable (1 John 3:4). To make the idea acceptable to Christians, Satan actually was able to disguise it as a doctrine and foist it upon a compromised Christianity.

In every evangelistic crusade, we meet it in one form or another, usually at the point of the law and the Sabbath. The inconvenient claims of obedience are shrugged off with a “Well, nobody can keep the Ten Commandments anyway.”

But the problem doesn’t end there. Even Christians who have accepted the claims of the moral law are not too concerned about how well they fulfill it either. In a subtle way they have been affected by the prevalent belief that too much concern about obedience is a form of salvation by works. Incredibly, some seem to be so fearful of keeping the law too closely that they actually make provision to break it. By doing so they perversely comfort themselves for not being legalistic.

How could people committed to commandment-keeping ever come to such a confused contradiction within themselves? Exposure to a false concept of righteousness by faith is only part of the answer. Much of the problem is based upon human failure and weakness of the flesh. Because they found themselves stumbling in their efforts to be perfect, they finally concluded that it was impossible not to sin. From that point it was easy to start interpreting Bible texts to support their weak experience. Satan exploited the psychological bent of the human mind to rationalize, and soon they had developed a comfortable doctrine that accommodated their occasional deviations from the law. Consequently, most Christians today are resigned to an alternating experience of victory-defeat, victory-defeat. To them it is the approved lifestyle of normal Christianity.

But something is fearfully wrong with this position. In the first place, doctrine should never be based on feeling or human experience. It must be rooted in the plain, unequivocal teaching of the Word of God. It is true that Bible texts can be assembled which seem to support the doctrine of spiritual imperfection. We are assured that all have sinned, that the carnal mind is enmity against God, and that man’s righteousness is as filthy rags. But all the verses about failure, sin, and defeat are in reference to the unregenerate experience of a person. There are literally scores of other texts which describe an opposite experience of total victory and sinless living. In every case they are referring to the Spirit-filled life of a converted, committed child of God.

This distinction must always be recognized in the reading of the Scripture. The gospel of Jesus Christ is the power of God unto salvation. His grace is stronger than all the concentrated forces of evil. Jesus came to save His people from their sin. No one who reads the sixth chapter of Romans intelligently can believe that the Christian is free to practice sin. Paul utterly devastates the doctrine that a believer should keep on falling into sin.

It is true that provision is made for cleansing in case sin is committed, but God’s perfect plan made it possible for man to overcome every sin and to live a life of perfect obedience through Christ. In fact, the promises of the Bible are so clear and specific on this point that it is hard to get confused. No secret meaning or hidden reservation can be found in the myriad of texts which describe the victorious experience of the born-again child of God. And just because one may not have grown into that fullness of faith which brings constant victory, he should not, therefore, deny the power of God to give such deliverance. When Peter began sinking in the Sea of Galilee, it was not because God’s plan or power had failed. Peter could have rationalized, like so many modern Christians, and said, “God didn’t want me to walk on the water, and besides, it’s impossible for anybody to do such a thing anyway.” Like our first parents we still tend to place the ultimate blame on God when we fail to follow His plan of holy living.

Total Victory Promised

The Spirit of God seemed to anticipate the struggle many would pass through in accepting the biblical assurances of total victory. Consequently the inspired writers were moved to use almost fanatical language in describing the possibilities for overcoming sin. Superlative expressions are utilized which actually boggle the mind. Instead of saying we may be saved, the Bible says we can be “saved to the uttermost” (Hebrews 7:25). Instead of saying we may conquer, it assures that we can be “more than conquerors” (Romans 8:37). Instead of being told that we can just triumph, we are told that we may “always triumph” (2 Corinthians 2:14). Instead of promising whatever we might ask to help us in our spiritual battles, the Bible says He will give us “exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think” (Ephesians 3:20). And the verse just prior to that one clearly guarantees that we may “be filled with all the fullness of God” (verse 19).

Admittedly, many of these promises are too vast for our human minds to comprehend fully, but surely they are intended to impress us with the magnitude of God’s resources in our behalf. If the language sounds exaggerated it is only because we are too feeble in faith and too weak in the flesh to believe such purity and sanctification could ever be fulfilled in us. We tend to trust our feelings quicker than the Word of God.

Is it important to believe the promises exactly as they read? Yes, because it is only through those promises that deliverance can be accomplished. “Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust” (2 Peter 1:4).

Notice that it is “by these” that we escape the corruption of sin. What are “these”? The promises of God. The sequence of victory is plainly marked out in this fantastic text. By faith in the promise we become a partaker of the divine nature, and through the power of that new nature in us we are able to escape the corruption of sin. In other words, everything depends on the surrender and commitment of one’s self to the indwelling Spirit of Christ. “Without me,” Jesus said, “ye can do nothing” (John 15:5).

Equally important is the inspired comment of Paul, “I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me” (Philippians 4:13). That little expression “all things” is the key to victory for every one of us. It includes power over drugs, immorality, appetite, pride, and every act of sin that would rob us of eternal life.

All Things Available

The big point here is that when you get the power of Christ in your life, you have everything else you could ever desire. “He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?” (Romans 8:32). There is that term again—“all things.” You will find it also in 2 Peter 1:3: “According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness ...”

When you put those texts together, an incredible picture emerges. By claiming the presence of Christ in your life, you also receive everything that Christ possesses. Paul described it this way: “But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption” (1 Corinthians 1:30).

Here the “all things” are broken down into very particular, individualized experiences, and we begin to see that Peter was right in stating that God has given us all things that pertain to godliness. Those Christians who doubt the possibility of overcoming sin completely should read these verses carefully. What do those words “righteousness,” “redemption,” and “sanctification” include? All three of those words promise us more than deliverance from the guilt of our past sins. The word “redemption” is not limited to redemption from the guilt of sin, but from the power of sin also. “Sanctification” is a word that describes continuous, daily growth in overcoming sin. “Righteousness” literally means right-doing and applies to a dynamic fulfillment of God’s will. They are all big words, but they all have the connotation of being set free, both from the guilt and the practice of sin.

Every child of Adam needs two things desperately—forgiveness for the past, and power for the future. Redemption includes both of them; and the idea that full deliverance from the guilt of sin is included, but only partial deliverance from the power of sin, is a perversion of the gospel. Jesus did not come to save us from the consequences of sin only, but to save us from the sin itself. Salvation is not a negative thing; not just the absence of something. He did not come just to take away something—our guilt—but to give us something—victory over sin. For God to forgive us and leave us under the power of continued sin would make God an accomplice of sin. He not only counts us righteous through the imputation of His atoning death, but He makes us righteous through the impartation of His victorious life.

After thoughtfully reading the entire sixth chapter of Romans, if you need more assurance that victory can be yours, read the following:

1 Corinthians 15:57—“But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.”

1 John 5:4—“For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.”

Philippians 2:5—“Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus.”

2 Corinthians 5:21—“… that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.”

1 John 3:6—“Whatsoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.”

Let us return for a moment to the analogy of the hypnotized man. He could not physically lift a small glass from the table because his mind was so fully convinced that it couldn’t be done. Has Satan been able to immobilize the church through the power of his hypnotic, lying assertion that obedience is impossible? It certainly seems so.

No one is going to put forth any serious effort to do something that he believes to be impossible. Obviously then, those who believe they cannot live without sinning are not attempting to live without sin. No reasonable person will waste time and effort in a vain struggle to accomplish nothing.

That brings us to an interesting question: Can a person believe that there is no way to stop sinning, and yet make plans not to sin? Logically, it would seem highly unlikely, if not impossible. Yet the Bible commands us to “make not provision for the flesh, to fulfill the lusts thereof”?(Romans 13:14). Do we indeed make provision for sin by holding that it is impossible not to sin?

To Him That Overcometh

The entire book of Revelation is addressed to the seven churches of Asia. In each of the churches certain ones received high commendation and glorious promises of heavenly reward. Without exception the blessing was extended “to him that overcometh.” Those seven churches symbolize every period of the Christian church from the apostles to the end of time. If victory over sin is not possible, no soul will be saved from those centuries of time.

To deny the possibility of total victory over sin is to rob God of the glory of His mission. He came, the Bible says, to destroy the works of the devil. Those works are the works of sin. If no one claimed His power to overcome sin completely, the devil’s accusation would be confirmed. The requirements of God would be exposed as too difficult to obey.

Jesus stated that He had come “to seek and to save that which was lost” (Luke 19:10). Here He indicated that more than just people needed to be restored.

“That which was lost” included a sinless character. His mission was to counteract and neutralize the entire program of sin-defilement introduced by Satan. Restoring the image of God in man is a very important part of the everlasting gospel. That work of the gospel must be done before Jesus comes and not as some magical afterthought of our returning Lord.

(Continued On Next Post)

[John317]

The book of Revelation identifies the crowning characteristic of the redeemed as obedience. “Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus” (Revelation 14:12). “And the dragon was wroth with the woman and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ” (Revelation 12:17). “Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city” (Revelation 22:14).

How significant it is that man’s condition for remaining in Eden is also the condition for being restored to Eden. Anyone who believes obedience is unimportant should read again the dramatic story of Adam and Eve. A tiny, physical act of sin led to all the stark tragedy of the past 6,000 years. Those who are restored to that lost paradise will have demonstrated that they can be trusted with eternal life. Through faithful obedience in the face of death, they will have proven Satan’s charges to be utterly false. Their steadfast loyalty will be an eternal guarantee of the security of God’s restored dominion.

What can we say, then, concerning those who look so lightly upon the good works of obedience? They are subjects of grave deception and are playing into Satan’s deadly sin-trap. The most glorious experience of the truly converted is to break the pattern of self-indulgence and sin. Under the rule of the Spirit of God, fleshly habits may be conquered and expelled from the life. Through faith in the promises unbelievable power may be released into the life of one who is willing to give up the enjoyment of sin.

The heart of God longs for us to take Him at His word and to claim the power He has promised. It is the only road to real victory. But no one can experience victory who does not believe victory is possible. Read again the assurances of the Bible. Do not try to twist them to match the weaknesses and failures of your human experience. They mean what they say. Deliverance is yours for the believing and the asking.

Right here we need to pause and consider an objection which is always brought against those who believe in total victory. It goes something like this: If you believe it is possible to live without sinning, are you able to say that your own life is free from sin?

Although the question deserves an answer, it should be pointed out that the objection is not relevant to the issue. If the Bible establishes a truth, it should be received on the grounds of its inspired authority and not on the basis of the messenger’s experience. If victory over all sin is possible through Christ, it is true, whether the preacher has claimed it or not claimed it. Further, the work of sanctification is a progressive, lifelong experience and can never be considered as finished in point of time. Even if one could be unconscious of any known sin, he could never boast of being sinless. In fact, the person who is closest to perfection would surely be the least likely to recognize it. Because the nearer he gets to Jesus the more imperfect he will appear in his own eyes.

The claim might also be made that the doctrine of victory over sin is highly idealistic and too theologically complicated to be practical. But nothing could be farther from the truth. Even a child can understand the simple faith-transaction of appropriating the promises of the Bible. There is not a habit or sin known to man that cannot be conquered through faith.

In the next few minutes you will be able to appreciate the beauty of this divine victory plan. You will learn how to stop smoking, cursing, overeating, gossiping, or committing any other sin. Let nothing distract you as you proceed to the next paragraph. It could be the turning point of your life and mean more than all the money in the world. Since so many are struggling with cigarettes, I will use that indulgence as an illustration of the victory we are describing. Put your own problem into the text, and then take the four steps to glorious victory.

The Secret of Victory

Have you heard about the evolutionary way of getting the victory over tobacco, or any other sin? It is sometimes called the “tapering” method, but generally it just doesn’t work. Oh, it partially works, of course, because old age takes care of some temptations and sins, and time settles the rest when death comes. But do you know why “trying” does not work in overcoming the devil?

Why can’t we fight the devil for a few months and finally drive him away? Because the devil is stronger than we are. We could fight him for a year, but he would still be stronger than we are at the end of the year. Trying will never break the power of sin in a single instance, because we’re facing an enemy who will always be stronger than we are. What, then, is the answer to our weakness and defeat? This question leads us to the sweetest and most sublime secret in the Word of God. Let us study it thoughtfully and with much prayer.

First of all, one must understand that all of heaven’s gifts are available to us through the promises of the Bible, and we receive them by faith. Peter describes the “exceeding great and precious promises” and assures us that “by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature” (2 Peter 1:4). Mighty power is stored within the promise to fulfill itself to all who claim it in faith. So few are willing to believe that the promised blessing becomes theirs the very moment they believe it. Why is it so hard to believe implicitly that God will do what He promises?

Now let us come down to the very heart of victory and consider the four simple scriptural steps that any believer may take in claiming God’s power. Four texts will illuminate the amazing transaction. First: “But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ” (1 Corinthians 15:57). Allow your mind to savor the fantastic message of these words. Victory is a gift! We do not earn it by our efforts, or deserve it because of any supposed goodness. The only thing we need do is ask for it, and the victory will be given to us freely by Christ. He is the only one who has ever gained the victory over Satan, and if we ever possess the victory, it will have to come as a gift from Him.

Let me ask you something. Do you need victory in your life over some binding, miserable habit of sin? Some are slaves to appetite, to alcohol, or tobacco. Others are struggling helplessly against impurity, anger, or worldliness. The Bible says you may have the victory as a gift through Jesus Christ. Do you believe He will give you that power if you ask Him? How certain can you be that God will answer your prayer for victory immediately? Here is how sure you can be—just as sure as Christ’s words are true! Our second text is Matthew 7:11, “If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?”

Is it a good thing when you ask for victory over tobacco, or any other fleshly or moral evil? Of course it is! And you don’t even have to ask if it is God’s will! He has already told us in the Bible that it is His will to destroy the works of sin and the devil. If we pray for more money or a better job we should always ask according to His will, but the victory over sin is promised to every one who asks in faith.

Will God give the victory when we ask Him? Jesus said He was more willing to give this good thing than we are to feed our children when they are hungry. He is waiting to honor your faith and to “supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus” (Philippians 4:19). These assurances are so open-ended and unlimited that our minds are staggered by it. Why have we been so reluctant to apply for the provisions of grace? Why is it so hard to believe that God means exactly what He says? He will keep every promise.

Faith Makes It So

Here is the next question. How do we know we have the victory after we ask Him? Simply because He said we would have it. We know God did not lie. We can believe His promise. The very moment we ask, we should accept the fact of fulfillment, thank Him for the gift, and get up and act like it has been done. No kind of proof-feeling or sign should be demanded or expected. The self-fulfilling power in the promise is released in response to our faith alone.

This brings us to the third text, found in Romans 6:11, “Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.” The word “reckon” means to believe, or to consider it done. Every particle of faith should be focused on that one request for victory and then it should be accounted as done. Do you remember how Peter walked on the water? He asked Jesus if he could step out of the boat onto the raging sea, and Jesus told Peter to come. But how long did Peter do the impossible by walking on the water? The Bible says, “When he saw the wind boisterous, he was afraid; and beginning to sink, he cried, saying, Lord, save me” (Matthew 14:30).

What was Peter afraid of? He was afraid of sinking and drowning. In spite of Christ’s assurance that he could safely walk on the water, Peter began to doubt the word of the Master. That is when he began to sink. As long as he believed the promise of Jesus and acted in faith, he was safe. When he doubted, he sank.

Now, what is the impossible thing as far as you are concerned? It is not walking on water. It is overcoming that tobacco habit. And Christ says, “Come to me. I will give you the victory.” As long as you believe that you have been delivered, you will have the victory. It is as simple as that. The very moment you ask for victory it will be placed in your life as a reservoir of power. You won’t feel it, but it is there. It will remain there as long as you accept it in faith.

For some people the deliverance is so dramatic that they lose even the appetite for the sin. Tobacco addicts have sometimes been delivered from the craving, but this is not the usual way God does it. Usually, the desire remains, but in the moment of temptation, the power to walk past the temptation springs forth from within. Faith accepts the fact of deliverance and constantly claims the victory which is in the secure possession of the believer.

The final step to victory is described in our fourth text, Romans 13:14. “But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.” So strong is the confidence in the appropriated power of God that no consideration is given to falling under the power of that sin again. Under the old “trying” plan, provision was made to fail in most cases.

Cigarettes were placed on a shelf, and the smoker said to himself, “I’m going to try never to smoke again, but if I don’t make it I know where they are.” But under the “trusting” plan, we have no reason to fear failure on the grounds of human weakness. Victory does not depend on our strength but on God’s power. We might fail, but He cannot fail. Cigarettes are thrown away. All plans that might involve any degree of compromise are abandoned.

Little Jimmy was in trouble because he had gone swimming against his mother’s orders. When asked why he had disobeyed her, Jimmy answered, “Because I got tempted.” Mother then said, “I noticed that you took your bathing suit with you this morning. Why did you do that?” Jimmy answered, “Because I expected to get tempted.” How typical of those who do not quite trust their own strength to win the victory. They make provision to fail. They take their bathing suit along. With God there need be no provision to fail.

Someone might raise the objection that this could be discouraging. Suppose the person does fail? Even Peter began to sink. Would it not shake confidence in God if the victory was not maintained? No. Peter’s sinking had nothing to do with the failure of divine power. It did not change Christ’s will for him to walk on the water. It only pointed out Peter’s need of stronger faith to enable him to obey Christ’s command. Our faith could weaken. We might need to be reminded of our total dependence upon His strength. But this does not diminish the beautiful plan of God to impart power and victory through “exceeding great and precious promises” of the Bible. Without faith by the receiver not even God’s promises can be appropriated. The limits are clearly defined in the words of Jesus, “According to your faith be it unto you” (Matthew 9:29).

There it is, friend, in all of its simplicity. And it works! If you are willing to be delivered, it works. Nothing will help the one who is not willing to give up the cigarettes. But if you want it, it is there. Victory, power, deliverance—just reach out in faith and it is yours. Believe it and claim it this very moment. God wants you to be free.

[Dr. Rich]

WOW! This is very good! Would you mind if I copied this and placed it on our web site? The reasoning behind this is really well presented. However, there are a couple of points taken from Paul's writings that I do not understand. How can one die and yet still live? Jesus never taught this--did He? And, how can one "put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ"? Isn't it our responsibility to overcome sin first? How can the Holy Spirit live within a person who is sinful? After all, a house divided will fall. What comes first--being sinless and then the Holy Spirit can dwell in you, or haveing the Holy Spirit live with you and then you become sinless?

Satan's big lie to Eve was that God's love and grace was so strong that He would not kill them if they disobeyed because it is/was impossible to always obey God anyway.

We now can see the same lie being given by Paul in Romans 10:4. If there is no 'standard' or set of laws to obey, then then we can not obey anyway. He said that it is impossible to become righteous, but only Jesus was righteous and His blood will hid our sins and all will be saved because of God's love and grace.

[Woody]

If it's written by Joe Crews ...

I ain't reading it.

[Gail]

If it's written by Joe Crews ...

I ain't reading it.

LOL I run into LOTS of folks in the store who feel the same way... But I'm interested in the discussion which should follow.

[Woody]

I am not going to get into a discussion of it unless provoked.

[Woody]

Currently ... I am sitting here ... nice calm and collected.

[Gail]

Hehehe

[Woody]

It is now ... almost noon Pacific Time ... and Redwood is still nice, calm and collected.

I can even still feel the fog rolling in from the Pacific. It is brushin across me bark.

[John317]

.... there are a couple of points taken from Paul's writings that I do not understand. How can one die and yet still live?

Are you perhaps referring to Romans 6: 11? If so, Paul is talking here about spiritual death and spiritual life. He says, "consider yourself dead indeed to sin." In other words, do not respond to temptations to sin. Regard your bodies as dead to sinful desires. We as Adventists have a good notion of what death means: when people are dead, they don't respond to any stimuli at all. That's the way Paul says we are to be, by the power of God's Spirit. We can't do that on our own, of course.

Quote:

Jesus never taught this--did He?

I've noticed you've ask this question (or rather, make this statement) a number of times before. I'm sorry if no one answered you until now.

You might check out what Jesus said in Matt. 5: 29, 30. Jesus said that if your eye or your hand causes you to sin, get rid of the offending part because it is more profitable for us that our body part perish than that our entire body be cast into Gehenna.

The various Bible writers use various and different metaphors in order to communicate the message of God. Not all put it exactly the same way. Jesus used a lot parables, for instance. Paul used them but rather more infrequently. However, both Jesus and Paul are in essential harmony in their teachings. It's a misunderstanding of their messages that would cause one to believe they contradict each other.

Quote:

And, how can one "put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ"?

This is the putting on the robe of Christ's righteousness. The robe of His righteousness is both the imputed and the imparted righteousness of Christ. It is being put right with God through placing our total trust in Christ, and then living out that trust in our everyday life moment by moment, so that Christ's character becomes ours.

We are to display outwardly what has already taken place inwardly, including practicing all the virtues associated with Christ. Romans 13: 12 urges us to put on "the armor of light."

See Gal. 3: 27; Eph. 4: 1.

Quote:

Isn't it our responsibility to overcome sin first?

It's our responsibility to choose Christ and to submit our will to God's will. We can't do any of this apart from the Holy Spirit. He gives us the desire to do right. But we have to choose to listen to, rather than reject, the voice of the Holy Spirit speaking to us.

We can't overcome on our own. That's extremely important to understand. So, our first responsibility is to make sure every day that Christ is in charge of our lives. Place our trust in His merits, not in ourselves or in what we can do apart from Him.

Quote:

How can the Holy Spirit live within a person who is sinful? After all, a house divided will fall. What comes first--being sinless and then the Holy Spirit can dwell in you, or haveing the Holy Spirit live with you and then you become sinless?

As soon as we truly and completely accept Christ as our Savior and Lord, God sets us in right relationship with Him, and at the same time, God sends us the Holy Spirit. Of course, the Holy Spirit has been working on our hearts and minds all the time before we accept Christ, because without the Holy Spirit, we wouldn't accept Christ to begin with.

It's foolishness to even talk of living for God without the Holy Spirit living in us. This happens when we are born from above, or born again, of the Spirit. It's God's Spirit who empowers us to live for Him. It is utterly impossible otherwise. A lot of Christians are trying to do it on their own, and this is the reason they fail and why they think it can't be done. I know this personally because that is how I lived from about 1973 to 2005. I wanted Christ but I wanted my favorite sins too. That's a no-can-do proposition.

Quote:

Satan's big lie to Eve was that God's love and grace was so strong that He would not kill them if they disobeyed

Very true.

Quote:

because it is/was impossible to always obey God anyway.

Bible reference for this?

Quote:

We now can see the same lie being given by Paul in Romans 10:4. If there is no 'standard' or set of laws to obey, then then we can not obey anyway.

We've already discussed Romans 10: 4. Paul is not saying there's no moral standard. He is saying Christ is the goal of the law-- that belief in Christ means we no longer look to the law for our righteousness, or justification.

Paul says plainly that it's important to obey God's commandments and God's law.

1 Cor. 7: 19; 9: 21; Romans 13: 9, 10.

Also carefully compare Romans 6: 1, 15; 3: 31.

Quote:

He said that it is impossible to become righteous, but only Jesus was righteous and His blood will hid our sins

Yes, only Jesus Christ is absolutely sinless and righteous. All others have sinned and continue to come short of God's glorious ideal for us.

Quote:

and all will be saved because of God's love and grace.

Nowhere in the Bible does it say that all will be saved. However, it does say that everyone who is saved in God's kingdom will be saved by God's grace, through faith. Faith is the empty hand reach up to accept the unmerited gifts of forgiveness, salvation and healing.

[John317]

I'd be interested in knowing what reason, if any, these folks give for feeling this way about Joe Crews. There are also a great many who enjoy reading him and hearing him. His books, like those of Doug Batchelor, hold out hope for people who are enslaved to sin, hate it and want to be freed from it. It's great news!

[Woody]

The fog has lifted and I am no longer feeling cool calm and collected. The blood pressure is a raising and the butter is melting in the fridge.

[Michael144]

WOW! This is very good! Would you mind if I copied this and placed it on our web site? The reasoning behind this is really well presented. However, there are a couple of points taken from Paul's writings that I do not understand. How can one die and yet still live? Jesus never taught this--did He? And, how can one "put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ"? Isn't it our responsibility to overcome sin first? How can the Holy Spirit live within a person who is sinful? After all, a house divided will fall. What comes first--being sinless and then the Holy Spirit can dwell in you, or having the Holy Spirit live with you and then you become sinless?

Satan's big lie to Eve was that God's love and grace was so strong that He would not kill them if they disobeyed because it is/was impossible to always obey God anyway.

We now can see the same lie being given by Paul in Romans 10:4. If there is no 'standard' or set of laws to obey, then then we can not obey anyway. He said that it is impossible to become righteous, but only Jesus was righteous and His blood will hid our sins and all will be saved because of God's love and grace.

No one can stop sinning. This is why Jesus came. Anyone who believes you can achieve righteous in their flesh needs to take a second look at the scriptures.

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

No flesh can survive the above Words.

These two scriptures are directly related to the verse where Jesus said, "Then shall two be in the field, the one shall be taken and the other left." He also said Two men shall lay in one bed....There are two of you sitting there. One is born of Adam (shall die) and the other is born of God (shall never see death) This is precisely why Paul said to judge no one by the law.

1John 3:8 represents your flesh and verse 9 represents your born again inward man who cannot sin. The main problem we have with lack of understanding is that no one understands HOW we are born again. Once this is discovered a great revival will ensue. It is found in the circumcision. Circumcision and baptism are symbolic of the exact same action. HOW are we born again. Confusion exists because most have no clue. Once you find that pearl all burden will drift away as chaff in the wind.

Your first clue is in the story of the centurion in Matthew 8:5 Remember, something happens and you are circumcised. What is it that happens? What causes us to be circumcised (cut) to where the flesh is separated? DIG! THINK! It's glorious.

Ecclesiastes 4:15 I considered all the living which walk under the sun, with the second child that shall stand up in his stead.

Just because we recognize that Saturday is the sabbath by no means makes us sinless. There are 9 other commandments.

[Woody]

I don't believe we even keep the Sabbath as we should . We aren't even sinless with that commandment.

[BobRyan]

I'd be interested in knowing what reason, if any, these folks give for feeling this way about Joe Crews. There are also a great many who enjoy reading him and hearing him. His books, like those of Doug Batchelor, hold out hope for people who are enslaved to sin, hate it and want to be freed from it. It's great news!

Slavery to sin is not something people want to give up. And if slavery is something that we can't escape anyway - well so much the better!

But in Romans 6 Paul argues against that "Gospel of slavery to sin" idea.

Apparently Joe Crews understands that -- so he is not too popular these days. Nor would any "prophet" be that suggested that Joe Crews' "Creeping Compromise" book was a good thing to follow. (As it turns out)

in Christ,

Bob

[Michael144]

I don't believe we even keep the Sabbath as we should . We aren't even sinless with that commandment.

This is 100% the truth

[melvin mccarty]

If "sin" were limited to exactly what the ten commandments say and no more there would be less problem although you would still have to define "work". It is the expanding of definitions ad infinitum that makes keeping the commandments impossible. I doubt if Joe was able to keep his own advice. His Amazing Facts had more "amaze" than "fact" sometimes. ....mel

[John317]

No one can stop sinning. ....

Romans 6: 1, 15:

"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?...... What then? What we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!"

Jesus told the woman caught in adultery, "Go and sin no more." Was He telling her to do the impossible?

In Cor. 6: 9. 10, the fornicators, idolators, adulterers, homosexuals, sodomites, thieves, the covetous, drunkards, revilers, and extortionists-- all were enabled by God's Spirit to stop committing those sins. Therefore the Bible declares in no uncertain terms that, yes, we CAN stop sinning. It is a choice. It is a choice between doing what we know is wrong or doing what we know is right.

It is Satan who wants us to believe that we cannot stop sinning-- cannot resist and overcome sin in our lives. They are like the "giants" the ancient Israelites faced in the Promised Land and believed they could not enter into the Land because the giants were too big for them to defeat-- even though God had promised to defeat the giants for them, if only they would go forward in belief. Read the tragic result of their lack of faith, in Hebrews 3: 16-19.

God's prophet modern-day has written:

Quote:

If we would only believe, we should receive the Holy Spirit. The question is asked, "Is the Lord's arm shortened that it cannot save? is his ear heavy that he cannot hear?"--No, he now works in the hearts of those who ask, who believe that God is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think. We must not be discouraged if Satan seeks to leaven the mind with subtle unbelief while we are engaged in prayer, and our hearts are impressed with the high standard of holiness to which we would attain. The enemy will suggest that the Lord will not keep us from sinning, and make us obedient to all his requirements. He will direct our mind to our past imperfections, to our sins, failures, and mistakes, and tell us we need not expect to come off conquerors at last. We are not to listen to the suggestions of the enemy, or think that our unaided efforts can save us, but we are to believe that Jesus does the work for us. At times when we have exercised a little faith, we have experienced a little help, and we have hoped to be victorious overcomers. But have we had faith that through Christ we should be able to overcome every temptation as he overcame? We have not generally exercised this quality of faith.The Signs of the Times , September 12, 1892, paragraph 2; Article Title: The Promise Verified to Faith.

Quote:

MICHAEL144--Just because we recognize that Saturday is the sabbath by no means makes us sinless. There are 9 other commandments.

Of course.

However, God's Word says that God people are enabled to obey His commandments:

1 John 2: 3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 5: 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

[John317]

If "sin" were limited to exactly what the ten commandments say and no more there would be less problem although you would still have to define "work". It is the expanding of definitions ad infinitum that makes keeping the commandments impossible. I doubt if Joe was able to keep his own advice. His Amazing Facts had more "amaze" than "fact" sometimes. ....mel

Did Peter walk on water by himself? Alone we can do no-thing. But with God all things are possible, including not committing known, conscious sin.

I think it's a question of whether we will believe the promises God inspired His prophets and apostles to write.

See 2 Peter 1: 1-11--

Quote:

To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:

2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Fruitful Growth in the Faith

5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.

10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

When I was a young kid, I broke my leg and had to learn how to walk all over again. I was sure I couldn't do it. I was frightened that if I put my weight on my leg, I would fall down like I did when I first broke it. I kept saying, "I can't, I can't." My cousin told me, "'Can't' never did nothing." He was right. As long as I kept denying that I could walk again, I wouldn't ever do it. I had to stop saying I can't and start saying I can. That was the first step. I went on from there to break the high school record for the mile. It started with believing I could take one step. That was only walking. What about when we have a great God like Jesus Christ the Righteous empowering us and sending every angel in heaven to help us resist and overcome sin?

[phkrause]

I definitely believe that we can stop consciously sinning with the help of Jesus and the HS. But at the same time I believe that we are not sinless. As you mentioned Jesus said to mary "go and sin no more" so obviously he is saying there that it is possible to not sin, but also obviously not without divine help.

pk

[Woody]

I definitely believe that we can stop consciously sinning with the help of Jesus and the HS. But at the same time I believe that we are not sinless. As you mentioned Jesus said to mary "go and sin no more" so obviously he is saying there that it is possible to not sin, but also obviously not without divine help.

pk

I certainly don't think it was possible or even a requirement. I think Jesus presented it as a goal.

[Woody]

I doubt if Joe was able to keep his own advice. His Amazing Facts had more "amaze" than "fact" sometimes. ....mel

[John317]

I definitely believe that we can stop consciously sinning with the help of Jesus and the HS. But at the same time I believe that we are not sinless.

We will always have sinful flesh and a sinful nature until the resurrection and the Second Coming. So everyone can at any time commit sin.

But notice two quotes regarding those who are prepared for Christ's return--

Quote:

Not one of us will ever receive the seal of God while our characters have one spot or stain upon them. It is left with us to remedy the defects in our characters, to cleanse the soul temple of every defilement. Then the latter rain will fall upon us as the early rain fell upon the disciples on the Day of Pentecost. Testimonies for the Church Volume Five (1882-1889), page 214, paragraph 2

Oh, that the people might know the time of their visitation! There are many who have not yet heard the testing truth for this time. There are many with whom the Spirit of God is striving. The time of God's destructive judgments is the time of mercy for those who have had no opportunity to learn what is truth. Tenderly will the Lord look upon them. His heart of mercy is touched; His hand is still stretched out to save, while the door is closed to those who would not enter. Testimonies for the Church Volume Nine (1909), page 97, paragraph 2

1) The Latter Rain falls only on those who have the seal of God. No one will ever receive the seal of God while our characters have one spot or stain upon them.

2) Probation closes for Seventh-day Day Adventists who have known the truth but haven't been sanctified by the truth. Mercy will continue for a while longer for those who have not had the opportunity to learn what is truth, but the door is closed to those who knew the truth but would not enter.

[Michael144]

I definitely believe that we can stop consciously sinning with the help of Jesus and the HS. But at the same time I believe that we are not sinless. As you mentioned Jesus said to mary "go and sin no more" so obviously he is saying there that it is possible to not sin, but also obviously not without divine help.

pk

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Your flesh is not born of God. It is born of Adam.

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

1 Corinthians 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Romans 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Romans 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

There is two of you sitting there not one. The flesh born of Adam and the quickened inward man born of God....As I said before people do not understand HOW we are born again hence the confusion about continuing to sin.

Matthew 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Ecclesiastes 4:15 I considered all the living which walk under the sun, with the second child that shall stand up in his stead.

[John317]

Originally Posted By: pkrause

I definitely believe that we can stop consciously sinning with the help of Jesus and the HS. But at the same time I believe that we are not sinless. As you mentioned Jesus said to mary "go and sin no more" so obviously he is saying there that it is possible to not sin, but also obviously not without divine help.

pk

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Your flesh is not born of God. It is born of Adam.

It is true that our flesh is not born of God, but our flesh is not to have dominion over us. Our minds which are full of the Spirit are to control our flesh. By the Spirit we put to death the deeds of the body. Romans 8: 13; 6: 12, 13.

Our bodies by themselves can neither sin nor do anything righteous. It requires the mind to choose. Our bodies may be presented as instruments of unrighteousness or of righteousness. Romans 6: 13.