Moderators John317 Posted March 9, 2009 Author Moderators Share Posted March 9, 2009 Originally Posted By: John317 Please deal with the following verses in the light of your belief that God will ultimately save everyone in His Kingdom-- Matt. 25: 41 Romans 2: 5-11 2 Thess. 1: 9, 10; 2: 7-10..... You will understand these words when you discover who the wicked are. All the scriptures backing me up can be found in this topic. Please explain how the following verses show that everyone will eventually be saved in God's Kingdom. Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels.. Matt. 25: 41. But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, 9 tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; 10 but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God. Romans 2: 5-11. And they marched up over the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, but fire came down from heaven and consumed them.. Rev. 20: 9. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted March 9, 2009 Author Moderators Share Posted March 9, 2009 Originally Posted By: John317 Please deal with the following verses in the light of your belief that God will ultimately save everyone in His Kingdom-- Matt. 25: 41 Romans 2: 5-11 2 Thess. 1: 9, 10; 2: 7-10 Rev. 14: 9-11 Rev. 20: 7-15. Rev. 22: 15 Mal. 4: 1-3 Is. 66: 24 Hebrews 10: 39 Hebrews 9: 27, 28 Psalm 1 Isaiah 1:27-31 You will understand these words when you discover who the wicked are. All the scriptures backing me up can be found in this topic. Explain how "discovering who the wicked are" makes it plain that these verses teach that everyone will be saved. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael144 Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Explain how "discovering who the wicked are" makes it plain that these verses teach that everyone will be saved. You don't realize who the wicked are therefore you will not understand what I am telling you. Ellen White said there is more light coming. When new light comes you will discover that what you once believed is false or at least partially false. Understanding who the wicked are reveals this light. 2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; The carnally minded believe this man of sin is talking about "someone else." The anti-christ. The day of Christ, in verse two, comes when you discover who this man of sin is. If you were the only human ever born, is this scripture still valid? Quote 1 Corinthians4:5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted March 9, 2009 Author Moderators Share Posted March 9, 2009 Originally Posted By: John317 Explain how "discovering who the wicked are" makes it plain that these verses teach that everyone will be saved. You don't realize who the wicked are therefore you will not understand what I am telling you. Don't keep it a secret. Help me understand who the wicked are. Quote: Ellen White said there is more light coming. When new light comes you will discover that what you once believed is false or at least partially false. God's doesn't contradict Himself. He's not going to give revelations that contradict what He revealed through previous prophets. So while "more light is coming," that light won't contradict what God already revealed. For instance, Joshua didn't contradict Moses, and Samuel didn't contradict Joshua, etc. "To the law and to the testimony! If they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them." Is. 8: 20. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted March 9, 2009 Members Share Posted March 9, 2009 I have to agree with you John. The only reason that we would need another prophet is, if the church has gone so far away from the truth that the Lord see's a need for one, like when he called EGW. pk Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael144 Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 God's doesn't contradict Himself. He's not going to give revelations that contradict what He revealed through previous prophets. Exactly. God doesn't contradict himself. So tell me how many God gives eternal life in this verse. John 17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. I can give you scripture after scripture but you will not believe until it is revealed to you who the wicked is. I'm not going to tell you. It opens the door for you to say it is a doctrine of men which would be false because I give you plain English scripture and you still don't believe your own eyes because of what men have taught you. Ask God who the wicked are. Ask and ye shall receive. The doctrine of men cannot conceive that all mankind would be saved but the very middle verse in the entire Bible says put not your faith in men. With men this IS impossible but with God all things are possible. Quote 1 Corinthians4:5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael144 Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Originally Posted By: Michael144 You don't realize who the wicked are therefore you will not understand what I am telling you. Don't keep it a secret. Help me understand who the wicked are. Quote: Ellen White said there is more light coming. When new light comes you will discover that what you once believed is false or at least partially false. God's doesn't contradict Himself. He's not going to give revelations that contradict what He revealed through previous prophets. So while "more light is coming' date='" that light won't contradict what God already revealed. For instance, Joshua didn't contradict Moses, and Samuel didn't contradict Joshua, etc. "To the law and to the testimony! If they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them." Is. 8: 20. [/quote'] Don't forget that Jesus didn't contradict everything in the religious world of "God's people." Do you see a pattern here. They knew the prophecies of the messiah and still killed him. The true understanding of mercy has not entered your thoughts. Quote 1 Corinthians4:5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted March 9, 2009 Author Moderators Share Posted March 9, 2009 Don't forget that Jesus didn't contradict everything in the religious world of "God's people." Do you see a pattern here. Jesus contradicted human tradition which often opposed the revelation that God gave through the prophets. Quote: They knew the prophecies of the messiah and still killed him. The true understanding of mercy has not entered your thoughts. Yes, this is true, but that doesn't show that God is going to save everyone. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted March 10, 2009 Author Moderators Share Posted March 10, 2009 Originally Posted By: John317 God's doesn't contradict Himself. He's not going to give revelations that contradict what He revealed through previous prophets. Exactly. God doesn't contradict himself. So tell me how many God gives eternal life in this verse. John 17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. That verse implies, or assumes, that not all people will receive eternal life. It is obvious from the Bible that the Father did not give Jesus Christ all humanity. John 17: 6, 9, 12 show that not all were given to Christ. Christ's sacrifice was sufficient to save all mankind, for sure, but God will not force people to choose Christ or salvation. Please study 2 Peter 2: 4-17 and tell me where you find the idea taught there that God will save everyone: Quote: 4 For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; 5 and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly; 6 and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly; 7 and delivered righteous Lot, who was oppressed by the filthy conduct of the wicked 8 (for that righteous man, dwelling among them, tormented his righteous soul from day to day by seeing and hearing their lawless deeds)— 9 then the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations and to reserve the unjust under punishment for the day of judgment, 10 and especially those who walk according to the flesh in the lust of uncleanness and despise authority. They are presumptuous, self-willed. They are not afraid to speak evil of dignitaries, 11 whereas angels, who are greater in power and might, do not bring a reviling accusation against them before the Lord. 12 But these, like natural brute beasts made to be caught and destroyed, speak evil of the things they do not understand, and will utterly perish in their own corruption, 13 and will receive the wages of unrighteousness, as those who count it pleasure to carouse in the daytime. They are spots and blemishes, carousing in their own deceptions while they feast with you, 14 having eyes full of adultery and that cannot cease from sin, enticing unstable souls. They have a heart trained in covetous practices, and are accursed children. 15 They have forsaken the right way and gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Beor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; 16 but he was rebuked for his iniquity: a dumb donkey speaking with a man’s voice restrained the madness of the prophet. 17 These are wells without water, clouds[a] carried by a tempest, for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted March 10, 2009 Author Moderators Share Posted March 10, 2009 The doctrine of men cannot conceive that all mankind would be saved... I'm talking about the doctrine of the Bible, not doctrines of men. I'm referring to what God revealed through the prophets and apostles. For instance, 2 Peter 2: 4-17. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted March 10, 2009 Moderators Share Posted March 10, 2009 Originally Posted By: John317 Exactly right. The death of Christ was all about proving how strongly God is committed to honoring our choice. He takes our choice seriously. He will not have a concentration camp or prison for eternity for those who reject the offer. Nor will He change our characters and our thinking by force. He doesn't want a bunch of puppets. He only accepts intelligent worship freely given. you had no choice in what Adam chose to do. You inherited sin. But you & I have a choice as to who is to be Lord in our lives. Quote: 1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die' date=' even so in Christ shall all be made alive. I think you are overlooking something in your quote. In Christ shall all be made alive." "Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life." 1 Jn 5:12 ESV. How does one come to be "in Christ" & Christ in him? "Behold, I stand at the door and knock. IF anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me." Rev 3:20 ESV. Our Lord does not go where He is not invited. Quote: How many will be saved? It says it in plain English right here: John 17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. And it is just plain English that NOT everyone has been given to Him. [color:red']"While I was with them, I kept them in your name, which you have given me. I have guarded them, and not one of them has been lost except the son of destruction..." Jn 17:12 ESV. How many does this verse say the Father gave Jesus? While the Father has given his Son "power over all flesh," not everyone has been given into his hand to give eternal life. See Jn 17:12. Because "God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." Phil 2:9-11 ESV. That means that even the devil & his angels will acknowledge that God was right and just after all, and that Christ is Lord over all creation? But will the wicked be saved? You keep ignoring this: "For behold, the day is coming, burning like an overn, when ALL the arrogant and ALL evildoers will be stubble. The day that is coming shall set them ablaze, says the LORD of hosts, so that it will leave them neither root nor branch.... And you shall tread down the wicked for they will be ASHES under the soles of your feet..." Mal 4:1-3 ESV. And this: "The soul who sins shall die," not live forever! And this: "And they [the wicked] marched up over the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, but fire came down from heaven and CONSUMED them, and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were..." Rev 20:9,10 ESV. Quote: Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess... Have your ever been in a fight or seen a fight where one finally says, "Uncle"? Or "Enough"? But does it mean the loser now loves and loves to serve the winner? For the devil and all his followers, not a chance!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted March 10, 2009 Moderators Share Posted March 10, 2009 Originally Posted By: John317 Explain how "discovering who the wicked are" makes it plain that these verses teach that everyone will be saved. You don't realize who the wicked are therefore you will not understand what I am telling you. Ellen White said there is more light coming. When new light comes you will discover that what you once believed is false or at least partially false. New light/revelation will not contradict the word already given. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted March 10, 2009 Author Moderators Share Posted March 10, 2009 Originally Posted By: Michael144 1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. I think you are overlooking something in your quote. In Christ shall all be made alive." "Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life." 1 Jn 5:12 ESV. How does one come to be "in Christ" & Christ in him? "Behold, I stand at the door and knock. IF anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me." Rev 3:20 ESV. Our Lord does not go where He is not invited. 1 John 5: 11-12 says it all: Quote: 11 And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. How do people come to "have the Son of God"? It is safe to say that not all people have the Son of God. Therefore it is self-evident that not all people have eternal life. (All people alive today could have Jesus Christ in their lives, but it's obvious that many don't.) See also 1 John 4: 15, 16; 3: 9. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted March 10, 2009 Author Moderators Share Posted March 10, 2009 Originally Posted By: John317 Explain how "discovering who the wicked are" makes it plain that these verses teach that everyone will be saved. You don't realize who the wicked are therefore you will not understand what I am telling you. Ellen White said there is more light coming. When new light comes you will discover that what you once believed is false or at least partially false. Understanding who the wicked are reveals this light. The wicked are those who have never accepted Christ and never truly repented of their sins and experienced a genuine, faith-based, personal relationship with Jesus. The wicked haven't been worse than the righteous. It is just that the "righteous" have repented and allowed God to change their lives. Study the change in Romans 6 and 8. Below, find the Bible evidence concerning the Fate of the Transgressor: 1. WHAT question does Peter ask regarding the wicked? "For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?" 1 Peter 4:17. 2. What does the Bible say is the wages of sin? "For the wages of sin is death." Rom. 6:23. "The soul that sinneth, it shall die." Eze. 18:4. Die: "To pass from physical life; to suffer a total and irreparable loss of action of the vital functions; to become dead; to expire; perish."- Webster. 3. What will be the character of this death? "Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of His power." 2 Thess. 1:9. Destroy: "To unbuild; to break up the structure and organic existence of; to demolish; to spoil utterly; to bring to naught; to put an end to; to annihilate."- Webster. 4. How complete will be the destruction of the wicked? "Fear Him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." Matt. 10:28. 5. What does Christ say will befall those who do not repent? "Except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish." Luke 13:3. Perish: "To be destroyed; to pass away: to become nothing; to be lost; to waste away; to die."- Webster. 6. How does the apostle Peter say they shall perish? "But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in, their own, corruption." 2 Peter 2:12. 7. To what are the wicked in their punishment compared? "But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the Lord shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away." Ps. 37:20. Consume: "To destroy; as by decomposition, dissipation, waste, or fire."- Webster. 8. How does John the Baptist describe the destruction of the wicked? "He that cometh after me is mightier than I, . . . whose fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly purge His floor, and gather His wheat into the garner; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire." Matt. 3:11,12. 9. For whom does Christ say the fire which will finally destroy the wicked was originally prepared? "Then shall He say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from Me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels." Matt. 25:41. NOTE.-This fire is called "everlasting" because of the character of the work it does; just as it is called "unquenchable" because it cannot be put out, and not because it will not go out when it has done its work. 10. What will be the result of this punishment? "As the whirlwind passeth, so is the wicked no more: but the righteous is an everlasting foundation." Prov. 10:25. 11. Will any part of the wicked be left? "For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch." Mal. 4:1. 12. What will then be their condition? "For as ye have drunk upon My holy mountain, so shall all the heathen drink continually, yea, they shall drink, and they shall swallow down, and they shall be as though they had not been." Obadiah 16. 13. Where will the place of the wicked then be? "For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be." Ps. 37:10. NOTE.-It would be difficult to keep the wicked in eternal torment without any place for them, even, in which to exist. 14. Where are both the righteous and the wicked to be recompensed? "Behold, the righteous shall be recompensed in the earth: much more the wicked and the sinner." Prov. 11:31. 15. Do the wicked go directly to their punishment at death, or wait till the day of judgment? "The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished." 2 Peter 2:9. 16. To what are the present heavens and earth reserved? "But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men." 2 Peter 3:7. NOTE.-Both the present heavens and earth and sinners await the fires of the last day. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted March 10, 2009 Author Moderators Share Posted March 10, 2009 (Cont.) 17. What will be the result of the fires of the last day? "Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat." "The earth also, and the works that are therein shall be burned up." Verses 12, 10. 18. By what means does Christ say His kingdom is to be cleansed from sin and sinners? "The; Son of man shall send forth His angels, and they shall gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; and shall cast them into a furnace of fire." Matt. 13:41,42. NOTE.-Satan and the wicked now have this world as their "place." In due time Christ will have it. He will cleanse it from sin and sinners, and restore it, that He may give it to the saints of the Most High for an everlasting possession. See Dan. 7:18,22,27. 19. When are the wicked dead to be raised to receive their final punishment? "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished." Rev. 20:5. 20. Whence will come the fire that will destroy them? "And they went up on the breadth of the earth. and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them." Verse 9. NOTE.-This is called God's "strange act" and His "strange work,"- the work of destruction. Isa. 28:21. But by this means God will once and forever cleanse the universe of sin and all its sad results. Death itself will then be at an end- cast into the lake of fire. Rev. 20:14. 21. To what will this fire reduce the wicked? "And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts." Mal. 4:3. NOTE.-The wicked are to be utterly destroyed- consumed away into smoke, brought to ashes. Having inseparably allied themselves with sin, they have forfeited the right to life and an immortal existence, and chosen the way of death and destruction. By their choice they have proved themselves worthless. For this reason they are compared to chaff, briers, thorns, etc. Their destruction will consequently be no real loss. "They will themselves have lost their opportunity to obtain eternal life; but by the way in which they used their probationary time they proved themselves unworthy of it. Their destruction will, in fact, be an act of love and mercy on the part of God; for to perpetuate their lives would only be to perpetuate sin, sorrow, suffering, and misery. Terrible, therefore, as this judgment will be, there will, in consequence of it, be nothing of value lost,- nothing lost worth saving. The experiment of sin will be over, and God's original plan of peopling the earth with a race of holy, happy beings will be carried out. 2 Peter 3:13. 22. What is this final destruction of the wicked called? "This is the second death." Rev. 20:14. 23. After the burning day, what will appear? "Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness." 2 Peter 3:13. 24. Where will the righteous then be found? "Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father." Matt. 13:43. 25. What promise of the Saviour will then be fulfilled? "Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth." Matt. 5:5. See also Ps. 37:11,29; Isa. 65:17-25; Dan. 7:18. 26. What universal song of praise will then be sung? "And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honor, and glory, and power, be unto Him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb forever and ever." Rev. 5:13. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewart (SDA) Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 In the days of Jeremiah many of the Jews trusted in their association with the house of God. But in relation to this fatal, deceptive trust, Jeremiah spoke in God's name. "Behold, you trust in lying words, that cannot profit. Will you steal, murder, and commit adultery, and swear falsely, and burn incense to Baal, and walk after other gods whom you know not; And come and stand before Me in this house, which is called by My name, and say, We are delivered to do all these abominations? Is this house, which is called by my name, become a den of robbers in your eyes." (Jer 7:8-11) In the eyes of many people today, the house of God (the church) is still regarded as a den [a safe refuge] where open sin can be practiced with impunity. But this has never been true. Let us never think that we may do evil without reaping the consequences. Yet many SDA's seem to have adopted the Babylonian idea that the church is a "hospital for sinners", and that there is no cure, no escape from sin, until Christ returns. Their hope is that He will then change/purify their hearts. But the "hospital for sinners" idea continues to offer the old vain hope that it's ok for the Christian to continue in sin. Is the church a den -- a safe refuge -- for sin? No. Is professed Christianity a den -- a safe refuge -- where known sins can be perpetuated? No. "...he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath done: and there is no respect of persons." (Col 3:25) ___________________ In 1901 Mrs. White lamented at what the church had become. "The church is now as a vast hospital, filled with the spiritually sick, who need to be placed under the influence of the refining furnace, until all dross is consumed." Ms 108, 1901 (4MR 447). _________ Stewart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 The idea of a hospital is to go there to get better. You don't go to the hospital to stay in the same condition. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvin mccarty Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 Quote "the wicked are those who have never accepted Christ" I must challenge this statement again. Possibly the majority of all who have lived on this earth have never heard of Christ. Your statement makes all of those people transgressors which is obviously false. Think a little more about your John 3:17 verse. Do you really believe it? Christ's sacrifice was for all whicn you well know. What he asks of us is love and caring for all his family. .....mel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted March 13, 2009 Author Moderators Share Posted March 13, 2009 Th point is that salvation is based on the hearing and acceptance of the gospel of Jesus Christ: Mark 16: 15, 16 says, "And He [Christ] said to them, 'Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.'" The condition of salvation is continuous belief in and reliance upon Jesus Christ. John 3: 16. The whole purpose of the gospel is to give people the opportunity to hear of Christ and accept Him in order to have salvation. That is why it is urgent. If people are saved apart from hearing the gospel and responding positively to the proclamation, Romans 10: 12-17 would make no sense. People who have never heard of Christ are still transgressors of God's law. Read Romans 1 & 2. God does love all mankind but God doesn't save people on the basis of His love. He saves people on the basis of their faith in Jesus Christ. If salvation was on the basis of God's love merely, all people would be saved. It was because of God's love for humanity that He sent Jesus Christ into the world. But Christ is the only means of salvation. 1 John 5: 12 says, "He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son does not have the life." I am not saying that God will not save anyone who has never heard of Christ, but the clear Bible teaching is that hearing the gospel of Christ and accepting Him as Lord and Savior are necessary for salvation. We cannot base our belief on the conjecture that hearing the gospel is not necessary when the Bible clearly teaches that it is necessary, as shown in the references given above. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 Quote: The condition of salvation is continuous belief in and reliance upon Jesus Christ. John 3: 16. I wasn't aware that John 3:16 said all that John 3:17 Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 Quote: People who have never heard of Christ are still transgressors of God's law. Read Romans 1 & 2. But they could very well be forgiven and given the gift of eternal life. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted March 13, 2009 Author Moderators Share Posted March 13, 2009 Quote: The condition of salvation is continuous belief in and reliance upon Jesus Christ. John 3: 16. I wasn't aware that John 3:16 said all that John 3:17 It says clearly that "whosever believes in Him [Christ] shall not perish but everlasting life." The Greek original signifies "continuous present." This belief is not a mere intellectual belief or assent to facts but a reliance upon Christ as Savior and Lord. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 Which Greek word means 'reliance' ? Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted March 13, 2009 Author Moderators Share Posted March 13, 2009 Which Greek word means 'reliance' ? For God so greatly loved and dearly prized the world that He [even] gave up His only begotten (unique) Son, so that whoever believes in (trusts in, clings to, relies on) Him shall not perish (come to destruction, be lost) but have eternal (everlasting) life. (Amplified Bible) I thought you took courses in theology. In those classes, the professor talks about the meaning of "believe." You can also get books, such as Dictionaries of NT Theology, Greek-English lexicons, etc. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael144 Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 Originally Posted By: Redwood Which Greek word means 'reliance' ? For God so greatly loved and dearly prized the world that He [even] gave up His only begotten (unique) Son, so that whoever believes in (trusts in, clings to, relies on) Him shall not perish (come to destruction, be lost) but have eternal (everlasting) life. (Amplified Bible) I thought you took courses in theology. In those classes, the professor talks about the meaning of "believe." You can also get books, such as Dictionaries of NT Theology, Greek-English lexicons, etc. Again...You have no clue who the wicked are J317. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about as you parrot dark ages theology. Quote 1 Corinthians4:5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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