Is It Possible to Live Without Sinning?

[Woody]

Quote:

"In order to let Jesus into our hearts, we must stop sinning". Signs of the Times, Mar 3, 1898

"When we know God as it is our privilege to know Him, our life will be a life of continual obedience. Through an appreciation of the character of Christ, through communion with God, sin will become hateful to us." --DA, p 668

" When the Father gave His Son to live and die for man, He placed all the treasures of heaven at our disposal. There is no excuse for sin. God has given us all the advantages He possibly could give, that we may have strength to withstand the temptations of the enemy." TDG 318

"So long as we are united to Him by faith, sin has no more dominion over us. God reaches for the hand of faith in us to attain to perfection of character." The Desire of Ages, 123

[John317]

I saw that many were neglecting the preparation so needful and were

looking to the time of "refreshing" and the "latter rain" to fit them to

stand in the day of the Lord and to live in His sight. Oh, how many I

saw in the time of trouble without a shelter! EW 71

When Jesus leaves the sanctuary, then they who are holy and righteous

will be holy and righteous still; for all their sins will then be

blotted out, and they will be sealed with the seal of the living God.

But those that are unjust and filthy will be unjust and filthy still;

for then there will be no Priest in the sanctuary to offer their

sacrifices, their confessions, and their prayers before the Father's

throne. Therefore what is done to rescue souls from the coming storm of

wrath must be done before Jesus leaves the most holy place of the

heavenly sanctuary. Maranatha 242

[Michael144]

Originally Posted By: michael144

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Romans 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

Ephesians 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

Your flesh is not born of God. It is born of Adam.

It is true that our flesh is not born of God, but our flesh is not to have dominion over us. Our minds which are full of the Spirit are to control our flesh. By the Spirit we put to death the deeds of the body. Romans 8: 13; 6: 12, 13.

Our bodies by themselves can neither sin nor do anything righteous. It requires the mind to choose. Our bodies may be presented as instruments of unrighteousness or of righteousness. Romans 6: 13. [/quote']

1 Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Isaiah 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

My motive is not to tell people to go ahead and be evil; continue sinning.

My motive rather is to give peace to those confused as to why they keep sinning.

The fact is we all continue to sin whether they be small secret sins or large open sins does not matter. Who here has ceased to sin? And if indeed no one here has stopped sinning what do we accomplish by telling others that we can stop sinning. It keeps people in Egypt; that is the flesh.

Romans 7 explains every last one of us and the fact is you cannot stop sinning in your flesh. And as the scripture states clearly it is your inward man (born again) that ceases to sin not your flesh which is born of Adam and will surely die.

Quote:

This is why we had to be circumcised. There are 2 of you sitting there, one born of God by the Word, and the other is born of Adam which cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Matthew 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

In a circumcision the flesh is removed. How are we circumcised (cut)? By the Word of God

John 15:3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

Romans 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

[Woody]

Quote:

1 Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Isaiah 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

My motive is not to tell people to go ahead and be evil; continue sinning.

My motive rather is to give peace to those confused as to why they keep sinning.

The fact is we all continue to sin whether they be small secret sins or large open sins does not matter. Who here has ceased to sin? And if indeed no one here has stopped sinning what do we accomplish by telling others that we can stop sinning. It keeps people in Egypt; that is the flesh.

Romans 7 explains every last one of us and the fact is you cannot stop sinning in your flesh. And as the scripture states clearly it is your inward man (born again) that ceases to sin not your flesh which is born of Adam and will surely die.

All Excellen point. Thank you.

[Michael144]

Please! Who said the following quote in this thread? I'm very excited. I will explain why when I find the person who said this.

Quote:

and all will be saved because of God's love and grace.

[Michael144]

HEY MICHAEL144

I am not sure who said this statement

but not all people will be saved

but like JOHN317 stated all the people

that accept JESUS as LORD AND SAVIOR

of there will will be save BY JESUS

dgrimm60

[John317]

Please! Who said the following quote in this thread? I'm very excited. I will explain why when I find the person who said this.

Quote:

and all will be saved because of God's love and grace.

That would be Dr. Rich.

All who are saved will be saved because of God's love and grace.

The only way anyone could conclude that everyone will be saved is if they reject lots of evidence from the Bible and the Spirit of Prophecy.

For instance--

2 Thessalonians 1:7-10 (New King James Version)

7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe,[a] because our testimony among you was believed.

[Gerr]

To no one in particular.

As I've stated in other threads along the same line some time back: Until we make a distinction between

deliberate/premeditated/willful sinning from inadvertent sinning, one will either deny the reality of what

the Apostle John said and Jesus commanded, i.e. "No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him," 1 Jn 3:6 ESV, ,"Go and sin no more," Jn 8:11, or believe that God will all save us in our sins.

I believe that believers CAN, and IMPERATIVE that by God's grace they stop living a life in REBELLION, for that is what

deliberate/willful/premeditated sinning is all about. Jesus said no one can serve two masters. We are either slaves of

righteousness or slaves of sin, Rom 6. Our Lord "appeared to take away sins, " 1 Jn 3:5 and to save us FROM our sins, Mt 1:21, not just to forgive us and perpetuate the reign of sin in our lives. The gospel is either the power of God for salvation or it is not. It is my firm conviction that it is.

[John317]

"In order to let Jesus into our hearts, we must stop sinning". Signs of the Times, Mar 3, 1898

Wonderful quote. Thank you.

Here is the entire context, which always helps us to understand fully what is being said:

Quote:

Christ is willing to take possession of the soul temple, if we will only let him. He is represented as knocking at the door of our hearts for admission, but Jesus never forces himself upon us; he will come in only as an invited guest. If we seek him, we shall certainly find him. Many seem to have an idea that Christ is a great way off. It was difficult for the children of Israel to understand that Christ was their divine leader, and that he was enshrouded in the pillar of cloud by day, and in the pillar of fire by night. If we could only realize that we do not have to ascend into the heavens to bring Christ down, nor descend into the earth to bring him up, but that he is near us, how different would be our actions. There would not be so much trifling conversation. We would not be so easily led into temptation, and there would not be so many things in our lives to displease Jesus. We would realize that the divine eye is upon us, and that the record is passing up to heaven which we must meet again in the day of final accounts; for the judgment is to sit, the books are to be opened, and everyone is to be judged according to the deeds done in the body.

In order to let Jesus into our hearts, we must stop sinning. The only definition for sin that we have in the Bible is that it is the transgression of the law. The law is far-reaching in its claims, and we must bring our hearts into harmony with it. Men may wrap themselves about with their own righteousness, they may reach their own standard of character, but they do not reach the standard that God has given them in his word. We may measure ourselves by ourselves, and compare ourselves among ourselves; we may say we do as well as this one or as that one, but the great question is, Do we meet the claims that Heaven has upon us? The reason why iniquity prevails to such an alarming extent is that the law of God is made void in the earth. His law spoken from Sinai and exemplified in the life of Christ, is perfect, converting the soul. It condemns every sin, and requires every virtue. Not only does it demand a correct outward deportment, but its principles reach even to the thoughts and affections of the heart. "Behold," said the psalmist, "thou desirest truth in the inward parts; and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom." In the light of the law, covetousness is seen to be idolatry, lust adultery, and anger murder. No wonder that the carnal mind is enmity against God, and not subject to his law. The Signs of the Times , March 3, 1890, paragraph 2

Article Title: Jesus Knocking at the Heart.[sERMON ATTORRE PELLICE, ITALY, DECEMBER 3, 1885.]-By Mrs. E. G. White.-

I completely agree with the Spirit of Prophecy. Jesus cannot and will not take full possession of our hearts and lives as long as we are deliberately and willfully choosing to practice sin.

[Michael144]

Originally Posted By: Redwood

"In order to let Jesus into our hearts, we must stop sinning". Signs of the Times, Mar 3, 1898

Wonderful quote. Thank you.

Here is the entire context, which always helps us to understand fully what is being said:

Quote:

Christ is willing to take possession of the soul temple, if we will only let him. He is represented as knocking at the door of our hearts for admission, but Jesus never forces himself upon us; he will come in only as an invited guest. If we seek him, we shall certainly find him. Many seem to have an idea that Christ is a great way off. It was difficult for the children of Israel to understand that Christ was their divine leader, and that he was enshrouded in the pillar of cloud by day, and in the pillar of fire by night. If we could only realize that we do not have to ascend into the heavens to bring Christ down, nor descend into the earth to bring him up, but that he is near us, how different would be our actions. There would not be so much trifling conversation. We would not be so easily led into temptation, and there would not be so many things in our lives to displease Jesus. We would realize that the divine eye is upon us, and that the record is passing up to heaven which we must meet again in the day of final accounts; for the judgment is to sit, the books are to be opened, and everyone is to be judged according to the deeds done in the body.

In order to let Jesus into our hearts, we must stop sinning. The only definition for sin that we have in the Bible is that it is the transgression of the law. The law is far-reaching in its claims, and we must bring our hearts into harmony with it. Men may wrap themselves about with their own righteousness, they may reach their own standard of character, but they do not reach the standard that God has given them in his word. We may measure ourselves by ourselves, and compare ourselves among ourselves; we may say we do as well as this one or as that one, but the great question is, Do we meet the claims that Heaven has upon us? The reason why iniquity prevails to such an alarming extent is that the law of God is made void in the earth. His law spoken from Sinai and exemplified in the life of Christ, is perfect, converting the soul. It condemns every sin, and requires every virtue. Not only does it demand a correct outward deportment, but its principles reach even to the thoughts and affections of the heart. "Behold," said the psalmist, "thou desirest truth in the inward parts; and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom." In the light of the law, covetousness is seen to be idolatry, lust adultery, and anger murder. No wonder that the carnal mind is enmity against God, and not subject to his law. The Signs of the Times , March 3, 1890, paragraph 2

Article Title: Jesus Knocking at the Heart.[sERMON ATTORRE PELLICE, ITALY, DECEMBER 3, 1885.]-By Mrs. E. G. White.-

I completely agree with the Spirit of Prophecy. Jesus cannot and will not take full possession of our hearts and lives as long as we are deliberately and willfully choosing to practice sin.

So your salvation depends on what you do? Hope you don't fall short.

[Woody]

[BobRyan]

========================================================= Ellen White

In order to let Jesus into our hearts, we must stop sinning. The only definition for sin that we have in the Bible is that it is the transgression of the law. The law is far-reaching in its claims, and we must bring our hearts into harmony with it. Men may wrap themselves about with their own righteousness, they may reach their own standard of character, but they do not reach the standard that God has given them in his word. We may measure ourselves by ourselves, and compare ourselves among ourselves; we may say we do as well as this one or as that one, but the great question is, Do we meet the claims that Heaven has upon us? The reason why iniquity prevails to such an alarming extent is that the law of God is made void in the earth. His law spoken from Sinai and exemplified in the life of Christ, is perfect, converting the soul. It condemns every sin, and requires every virtue. Not only does it demand a correct outward deportment, but its principles reach even to the thoughts and affections of the heart. "Behold," said the psalmist, "thou desirest truth in the inward parts; and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom." In the light of the law, covetousness is seen to be idolatry, lust adultery, and anger murder. No wonder that the carnal mind is enmity against God, and not subject to his law. The Signs of the Times , March 3, 1890, paragraph 2

Article Title: Jesus Knocking at the Heart.[sERMON ATTORRE PELLICE, ITALY, DECEMBER 3, 1885.]-By Mrs. E. G. White.- =========================================

I completely agree with the Spirit of Prophecy. Jesus cannot and will not take full possession of our hearts and lives as long as we are deliberately and willfully choosing to practice sin.

Clearly - "Complete agreement with Ellen White" is not going to be very popular on that point.

in Rev 15 John reports that the temple service is shut down so that the 7 last plagues of chapter 16 can occur. That has a huge implication for Johh's other statement "These things I write to you that you SIN NOT but IF anyone DOES sin we have an ADVOCATE (high Priest in the Sanctuary in heaven) with God" 1John 2:1.

Once That advocacy is ended as per Rev 15 - you are left with just the first part of that statement.

The only way to get through that point in time is to have ALREADY HAD the outpouring of the Holy Spirit!

The only way to get the Latter Rain is complete and total surrender and as Paul said in 2Cor 10 "Taking every THOUGHT CAPTIVE to the obedience of Christ".

I am sure that some will not like the fact that this is a life or death issue with the saints at the end of time -- I am sure that "peace and safety" in a don't worry about anything kinda way - will be more pleasing to the ear -- but it will not get you through these last days.

in Christ,

Bob

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: pkrause

I definitely believe that we can stop consciously sinning with the help of Jesus and the HS. But at the same time I believe that we are not sinless. As you mentioned Jesus said to mary "go and sin no more" so obviously he is saying there that it is possible to not sin, but also obviously not without divine help.

pk

I certainly don't think it was possible or even a requirement. I think Jesus presented it as a goal.

I am at a loss how you can quote EGW stating that it IS possible and then you say, "I certainly don't think it was possible or even a

requirement."

When your Boss/Lord tells you, "GO", is it a suggestion? A goal? Or an imperative?

[Michael144]

Originally Posted By: Redwood

I certainly don't think it was possible or even a requirement. I think Jesus presented it as a goal. [/quote']

I am at a loss how you can quote EGW stating that it IS possible and then you say, "I certainly don't think it was possible or even a

requirement."

When your Boss/Lord tells you, "GO", is it a suggestion? A goal? Or an imperative?

I'm curios if you have stopped sinning Gerry or if you know anyone who has. And if you do know someone who has stopped sinning, how is it that you know this.

On the other hand if you haven't stopped sinning then I'm wondering why if indeed it is possible.

And how you would explain why Paul said that by the law no flesh shall be judged.

[Michael144]

HEY MICHEAL144

WE are all sinners and every one of us should die

but GOD THE FATHER loved us so much that HE offered

HIS SON JESUS to die for us....

now I KNOW I still sin but WITH the HOLY SPIRIT

guiding me and teaching me a better way of life

GOD THE FATHER AND JESUS see us in HIS EYES as perfect

and sinless as long as we stay in the HOLY SPIRITS PRESENCE

I hope this helps

dgrimm60

But the above posters are saying you can't even have the Holy Spirit if you are still sinning.

What they are forgetting is that when you focus on the law your sins INCREASE not decrease.

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: dgrimm60

HEY MICHEAL144

WE are all sinners and every one of us should die

but GOD THE FATHER loved us so much that HE offered

HIS SON JESUS to die for us....

now I KNOW I still sin but WITH the HOLY SPIRIT

guiding me and teaching me a better way of life

GOD THE FATHER AND JESUS see us in HIS EYES as perfect

and sinless as long as we stay in the HOLY SPIRITS PRESENCE

I hope this helps

dgrimm60

But the above posters are saying you can't even have the Holy Spirit if you are still sinning.

What they are forgetting is that when you focus on the law your sins INCREASE not decrease.

Very True

[John317]

Originally Posted By: John317

Wonderful quote. Thank you.

Here is the entire context, which always helps us to understand fully what is being said:

Quote:

Christ is willing to take possession of the soul temple, if we will only let him. He is represented as knocking at the door of our hearts for admission, but Jesus never forces himself upon us; he will come in only as an invited guest. If we seek him, we shall certainly find him. Many seem to have an idea that Christ is a great way off. It was difficult for the children of Israel to understand that Christ was their divine leader, and that he was enshrouded in the pillar of cloud by day, and in the pillar of fire by night. If we could only realize that we do not have to ascend into the heavens to bring Christ down, nor descend into the earth to bring him up, but that he is near us, how different would be our actions. There would not be so much trifling conversation. We would not be so easily led into temptation, and there would not be so many things in our lives to displease Jesus. We would realize that the divine eye is upon us, and that the record is passing up to heaven which we must meet again in the day of final accounts; for the judgment is to sit, the books are to be opened, and everyone is to be judged according to the deeds done in the body.

In order to let Jesus into our hearts, we must stop sinning. The only definition for sin that we have in the Bible is that it is the transgression of the law. The law is far-reaching in its claims, and we must bring our hearts into harmony with it. Men may wrap themselves about with their own righteousness, they may reach their own standard of character, but they do not reach the standard that God has given them in his word. We may measure ourselves by ourselves, and compare ourselves among ourselves; we may say we do as well as this one or as that one, but the great question is, Do we meet the claims that Heaven has upon us? The reason why iniquity prevails to such an alarming extent is that the law of God is made void in the earth. His law spoken from Sinai and exemplified in the life of Christ, is perfect, converting the soul. It condemns every sin, and requires every virtue. Not only does it demand a correct outward deportment, but its principles reach even to the thoughts and affections of the heart. "Behold," said the psalmist, "thou desirest truth in the inward parts; and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom." In the light of the law, covetousness is seen to be idolatry, lust adultery, and anger murder. No wonder that the carnal mind is enmity against God, and not subject to his law. The Signs of the Times , March 3, 1890, paragraph 2

Article Title: Jesus Knocking at the Heart.[sERMON ATTORRE PELLICE, ITALY, DECEMBER 3, 1885.']-By Mrs. E. G. White.-

I completely agree with the Spirit of Prophecy. Jesus cannot and will not take full possession of our hearts and lives as long as we are deliberately and willfully choosing to practice sin.

So your salvation depends on what you do? Hope you don't fall short.

What did Jesus say?

“And whenever you stand praying, if you have anything against anyone, forgive him, that your Father in heaven may also forgive you your trespasses. 26 But if you do not forgive, neither will your Father in heaven forgive your trespasses.” (Mark 11: 25, 26)

"He who does not take up his cross and follow Me is not worthy of Me" (Matt 10: 28.

"If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into Gehenna" (Matt. 5: 29).

“When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; (Matt. 25: 31-35)

"Assuredly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God as a little child will by no means enter it.” (Mark 10: 15)

Watch therefore, for you do not know when the master of the house is coming—in the evening, at midnight, at the crowing of the rooster, or in the morning— 36 lest, coming suddenly, he find you sleeping. 37 And what I say to you, I say to all: Watch!” (Mark 13: 35-37)

“Also I say to you, whoever confesses Me before men, him the Son of Man also will confess before the angels of God. 9 But he who denies Me before men will be denied before the angels of God. 10 “And anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but to him who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven. (Luke 12: 8-10)

"He who loves his life will lose it, and he who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life." (John 12: 25)

"If anyone serves Me, let him follow Me, and where I am, there My servant will be also. If anyone serve Me, him My Father will honor." (John 12: 26)

Here's Paul:

Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God. (1 Cor. 6: 9-11)

Here's Ellen White:

This goody-goody religion that makes light of sin and that is forever dwelling upon the love of God to the sinner, encourages the sinner to believe that God will save him while he continues in sin and he knows it to be sin. This is the way that many are doing who profess to believe present truth. The truth is kept apart from their life, and that is the reason it has no more power to convict and convert the soul. There must be a straining of every nerve and spirit and muscle to leave the world, its customs, its practices, and its fashions. . . .

If you put away sin and exercise living faith, the riches of heaven's blessings will be yours.--Letter 53, 1887.

Second Advent Ends Soul Preparation-- 1888.--The robe of your character must be washed till it is spotless, in the fountain opened for all uncleanness. Your moral worth will be weighed in the balances of the sanctuary, and if you are found wanting, you will be at an eternal loss. All the coarseness, all the roughness, must be removed from your character before Jesus comes; for when He comes, the preparation for every soul is ended.

If you have not laid aside your envy, your jealousies, your hatred one against another, you cannot enter into the kingdom of God. You would only carry the same disposition with you; but there will be nothing of this character in the world to come. Nothing will exist there but love and joy and harmony. Some will have brighter crowns than others, but there will be no jealous thoughts in any heart among the redeemed. Each one will be perfectly satisfied, for all will be rewarded according to their work.--Signs of the Times, Feb. 10, 1888. Selected Messages Book 3 (1980), page 155

[Woody]

John ... why don't you tell us what you think?

[John317]

But the above posters are saying you can't even have the Holy Spirit if you are still sinning.

What they are forgetting is that when you focus on the law your sins INCREASE not decrease.

You misunderstand.

Do you think a man focuses on his wedding vows when he lives with a wife whom he loves with all his heart?

He is faithful and loving toward his beloved wife because he loves her, not because of the rules or laws.

Yet what would you think if a man went to a prostitute and then said that he doesn't need to be faithful because his wife loves him unconditionally?

Or if he says he doesn't need to be loyal because his loyalty doesn't earn any merit?

Do you believe that God is going to seal people with the seal of God and pour out on them the Latter Rain while they are deliberately and willfully practicing sin?

The Holy Spirit works on our minds and our hearts, of course, but the Holy Spirit doesn't live inside us and abide with us if we go on deliberately and willfully living in sin.

The Bible says the Holy Spirit is given to those who obey God. (Acts 5: 32)

[Woody]

Quote:

"The strongest temptation is no excuse for sin. No matter how severe the pressure brought to bear upon you, sin is your own act."

"In view of the dangers of this time, shall not we, as God's commandment-keeping people, put away from among us all sin, all iniquity, all perverseness?" AH 331

"There is no excuse for sin or for indolence." FW 49

" It is not in the power of all the host of Satan to force the tempted to transgress. There is no excuse for sin." Mar 82

"When the Father gave His Son to live and die for man, He placed all the treasures of heaven at our disposal. There is no excuse for sin. God has given us all the advantages He possibly could give, that we may have strength to withstand the temptations of the enemy. Had man, when tested and tried, followed the example of Christ, he would have given his children and his children's children an example of steadfast purity and righteousness, and the race would not have deteriorated, but improved. . . . " TDG 318

"There is no excuse for sin. It will be the final condemnation of Lucifer and his angels that when God shall ask, "Why have ye done this?" they will be able to assign no reason. And when at the last great day sinners are confronted with their sins, and are asked, "Why did you transgress?" every mouth will be stopped. The sinful will stand speechless before God. " RH, September 24, 1901 par. 3

"Men of high or low degree have no excuse for sin. The light given of Heaven, the power from Jesus Christ, can be obtained by all who ask for it in faith. Under every provocation there is a present help that will never fail. We are to learn to take God at his word, walking by simple faith, continually feeling our own weakness, and trusting in the Mighty One of Israel. " ST, October 7, 1880 par. 12

"There is no excuse for sin, no excuse for the least degree of unfaithfulness." 20MR 385

[Michael144]

Originally Posted By: michael

But the above posters are saying you can't even have the Holy Spirit if you are still sinning.

What they are forgetting is that when you focus on the law your sins INCREASE not decrease.

You misunderstand.

Do you think a man focuses on his wedding vows when he lives with a wife whom he loves with all his heart?

He is faithful and loving toward his beloved wife because he loves her, not because of the rules or laws.

Yet what would you think if a man went to a prostitute and then said that he doesn't need to be faithful because his wife loves him unconditionally?

Or if he says he doesn't need to be loyal because his loyalty doesn't earn any merit?

Do you believe that God is going to seal people with the seal of God and pour out on them the Latter Rain while they are deliberately and willfully practicing sin?

The Holy Spirit works on our minds and our hearts, of course, but the Holy Spirit doesn't live inside us and abide with us if we go on deliberately and willfully living in sin.

The Bible says the Holy Spirit is given to those who obey God. (Acts 5: 32)

So you are faithful don't sin any more? Am I understanding this?

[Woody]

Way to go Michael144 ... You see if you can get an answer. I doubt it ... but do appreciate your efforts.

[John317]

Originally Posted By: John317

You misunderstand.

Do you think a man focuses on his wedding vows when he lives with a wife whom he loves with all his heart?

He is faithful and loving toward his beloved wife because he loves her' date=' not because of the rules or laws.

Yet what would you think if a man went to a prostitute and then said that he doesn't need to be faithful because his wife loves him unconditionally?

Or if he says he doesn't need to be loyal because his loyalty doesn't earn any merit?

Do you believe that God is going to seal people with the seal of God and pour out on them the Latter Rain while they are deliberately and willfully practicing sin?

The Holy Spirit works on our minds and our hearts, of course, but the Holy Spirit doesn't live inside us and abide with us if we go on deliberately and willfully living in sin.

The Bible says the Holy Spirit is given to those who obey God. (Acts 5: 32) [/quote']

So you are faithful don't sin any more? Am I understanding this?

1 John 1:5-10 (New King James Version)

Fellowship with Him and One Another

5 This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

1 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

The Test of Knowing Him

3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

7 Brethren, I write no new commandment to you, but an old commandment which you have had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which you heard from the beginning. 8 Again, a new commandment I write to you, which thing is true in Him and in you, because the darkness is passing away, and the true light is already shining.

9 He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now. 10 He who loves his brother abides in the light, and there is no cause for stumbling in him.

[Michael144]

Originally Posted By: michael144

1 John 1:5-10 (New King James Version)

Fellowship with Him and One Another

5 This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

1 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

The Test of Knowing Him

3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

7 Brethren, I write no new commandment to you, but an old commandment which you have had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which you heard from the beginning. 8 Again, a new commandment I write to you, which thing is true in Him and in you, because the darkness is passing away, and the true light is already shining.

9 He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now. 10 He who loves his brother abides in the light, and there is no cause for stumbling in him.

Good scriptures. Now, have you stopped sinning (transgression of the law)?

And if you have not how do you explain the claim that it is possible to stop sinning.

And if you haven't and no one you know has, then neither you or anyone you know is in the light according to the scriptures you presented.

[Michael144]

1 Timothy 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.