Is It Possible to Live Without Sinning?

[Michael144]

If the news you discovered is so good and not being taught, then if I were you I'd be publishing/blurting it out every chance I get.

I already have in this forum...Look for the thread "Two in the Field"

I've also given clues because you won't appreciate it until you find it yourself.

Again, people's lack of understanding of how we are born again leaves them severely blinded to the true good news...Ellen White said more light is coming.....But has it come yet? If I told you your house was on fire would you at least look?

[Gerr]

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Good scriptures. Now, have you stopped sinning (transgression of the law)?

Am I to understand you to be saying that those are good scriptures but they are not telling the truth?

Would Jesus give an impossible command, "Go and sin no more?" Would God give a command that even by His grace is impossible to obey?

[Gerr]

I looked it up. Nice thought. Unconventional. But in the context of Mt. 24:36-Mt 25, I don't believe Jesus was in reality talking about only one person while actually talking about two different classes of people - one class ready to meet Him when He comes and the other not ready.

Who is cleansed by the word? When the words spoken by Christ which are "spirit and life" abide in the believer, then the promises in 1 Jn 3 & 5 become a reality.

The dilemma is this: What did the Apostle John mean or how are we to understand when he said, "No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him?" 1 Jn 3:6 ESV, while the reality is that I'm still not perfect?

I believe the key is in verse 4, i.e. "Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness." ESV.

The sin that the Apostle John is talking about is present tense, an ongoing disregard for law, anomia - living as though there is no law. The Amplified is even more instructive in that it talks about a deliberate/willful disregard for law. The same Apostle says in 1 Jn 5:17, "All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that does not lead to death." How so? Lev 4 & Nu 15 talk about unintentional sins for which a person is not accountable for until it has been brought to his/her attention. This is in contrast to the lifestyle of lawlessness mentioned in 1 Jn 3:4 & Heb 10:26.

As long as we are in this mortal body, we continue to do wrong. But doing wrong as a conscious/derliberate/willful lifestyle of lawlessness? For the true believer, that would be an oxymoron!

IMHO, the more correct question to ask then is not, Have I, have you, stopped sinning yet? Rather, the question should be, have I, have you, stopped living a life in rebellion against God? Have I, have you, stopped living a conscious/deliberate/willful lifestyle of lawlessness? By the grace of God this is not only within the reach but should also be the experience of every true believer.

[Woody]

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IMHO, the more correct question to ask then is not, Have I, have you, stopped sinning yet? Rather, the question should be, have I, have you, stopped living a life in rebellion against God? Have I, have you, stopped living a conscious/deliberate/willful lifestyle of lawlessness? By the grace of God this is not only within the reach but should also be the experience of every true believer.

Please would you be so kind as to define "should" ?

[Gerr]

In the context of how I was using the word, it means, per Webster: what is probable or expected.

[skyblue888]

"In Christ dwelt all the fullness of the Godhead bodily. Col.2:9. This is why, although He was tempted in all points like as we are, He stood before the world, from His first entrance into it, untainted by corruption, though surrounded by it. Are we not also to become partakers of that fullness, and is it not thus and thus only that we can overcome as He overcame?" E.G. White, Bible Commentary, Vol.7,907.

"Sin can be resisted and overcome only through the Third Person of the Godhead who would come with no modified energy but in the fullness of divine power." D.A.671.

"Looking unto Jesus and trusting in His MERITS, we apprpriate the blessings of light and joy and peace in the Holy Spirit." 5 T 744.

sky

[Woody]

Let's cut to the chase.

I will try to have the final word.

The answer is : No one has. No one will.

Exceptions ... 1.) Jesus

and 2.) You ... perhaps for a moment while you are sleeping.

No futher exceptions.

[John317]

Let's cut to the chase.

Try the same argument when it comes to the resurrection of the dead and the Second Coming of Christ.

The answer is No one has. You have never seen any dead raised, and no one else has either. Have you ever seen anyone come down from the sky like the Bible teaches? No one has. No exceptions!

Ever heard of living by faith based on the promises of the word of God and the inspiration of God in the Spirit of Prophecy?

Or do those things mean nothing?

The fact is that when it comes to living for God, you and I know nothing more than Elijah did, and he wasn't aware that God had 7000 who hadn't bent the knee to Baal. He thought he was the only one who was faithful to God. But God knew different.

So it is today. Ellen White said that there were Enochs in her day. They exist in our day, known only to God.

[John317]

The question was "Have you stopped sinning?"

If so, when and at what time was your last sin? How long have you gone now without sinning? Are you 100% confident that no matter what happens, you will not sin again for the rest of your life here on earth?

If not, why not?

Can you point me to another person who has stopped sinning, and tell me how long it has been since his/her last sin?

If it is not only possible but required of us to stop sinning, then there should be hundreds of godly believers around who have done so, who can act as an example and an encouragement to the rest of us. Where are they?

Nobody has ever given me a definite answer to these types of questions.

The only reason I tell this is so that people who feel that they can't overcome sin will understand that with God, they really CAN overcome. I kept all of this a secret until a little over a year ago, Parade Orange told me he thought I should tell what happened so that other gays could see that God can help them like God helped me.

I don't want to go into too much detail about my earliest years except to say that from very early on I knew I was "different" and that by my early twenties, I was in relationships with men. I wished I had been born female and I thought of myself that way and felt the same way toward men as women feel.

When I became a Christian and was baptized, I wanted Christ and did accept Christ, but I didn't want to give up the female side of me. I wanted that part of me because I felt that was the real me. I loved that part of me. I didn't know how I could live without it. So I kept that in reserve from Christ. I would ask him to forgive me for my sins and I would try not to commit those sins, but I couldn't stop them. I finally came to the point where I thought God would simply have to accept that part of me because I couldn't change and I didn't think God could change me, either.

I lived that way for about 35 years-- sinning and asking for forgiveness, sometimes thinking about doing it again even as I prayed for forgiveness. I stopped praying for God to help me overcome it. But I didn't really want to completely stop it or overcome it. I couldn't imagine living an eternity without a man and without everything that goes along with those relationships. I didn't like being a man or having male parts. It was like my body was not my own but that it belonged to someone else. I would walk down the streets of my home town dressed as a woman and no one knew the difference. I felt that was the real me, and I hated the thought of putting that part of me away forever.

I decided to have a sex change operation (SRS or GRS) and began taking female hormones. I became friends with other "girls" who were in the process. I was looking forward to going to Thailand for the operation. I was taking the hormones for about a year, and it changed how I felt and how I thought.

About this time I started studying the Bible with a man who was a Jehovah's Witness. I met him almost every day for several months. He knew that I was "gay" but he never said anything about it and always was respectful. But one day he had me read 1 Cor. 6: 9-11 out loud. Afterwards he asked me if I understood what it was saying. Of course I did. He just smiled and I knew what he meant. But over the next few weeks, he would draw my attention to that verse and ask me to read it again.

He also asked me to read 1 John 3: 1-10. When I read those verses I knew that there was something missing in my life. In fact, I knew that it was the Holy Spirit that was missing in my life, and I realized that I had never been "born of God" before. I knew that I had been "of the devil." How did I know this? Because 1 John 3: 6-10 says that if I had been born of God and had God's nature or seed in me, I would not be practicing sin, and I knew from the Bible that I had been practicing sin and couldn't stop it. I had been leading hundreds of men into sin. A lot of those men were Christians-- most were married. I would meet them on the streets, in bars and in XXX shows, and men were all I could think of practically. (Some of the men I met in those places were Adventists, men I had known before in school or in church. One was a conference leader and another a leader at a large SDA institution. I had led them into sin and I knew that the Holy Spirit never would have led me to do those things. I knew it was Satan who had been leading me all that time to get people to commit those sins. I knew I should stop but I didn't really want to stop and I knew I couldn't possibly do it on my own anyway.)

But reading those verses with the Jehovah's Witness man made me face the truth. I had allowed the sinful nature to dominate me and take total control of me so that I didn't want to give it up, and I realized it had happened because I never gave Jesus that part of me. I had never given Him 100% of my heart and life but had always kept that part of me in reserve. I knew I had made it more important than Jesus.

I didn't gain my freedom from those sins until I decided to surrender everything to Him, including my favorite sins, the part of me that I had wanted to keep. The "true me"-- at least the part of me that I had always felt was the true me-- had to die. I gave it over to Christ and asked Him to take it away from me. It didn't happen all at once, but over a period of weeks, I began to experience a lessening of the temptations and the thought processes that had driven me all those years. It was during times when I felt the temptations that I felt Jesus' presence the most. I knew the Spirit was working on my heart and mind.

It's been about 4 1/2 years now since then. The only thing that keeps me is Bible study and prayer (my own but also the prayers of others) and the knowledge that He is true to His promises. I live a day at a time. I make no promises; I just know that with Jesus' Spirit in me, I can live this moment and this day for God. I'll let Him take care of tomorrow. I wouldn't ever want to go back to those wasted years.

[Gerr]

Let's cut to the chase.

I will try to have the final word.

The answer is : No one has. No one will.

Exceptions ... 1.) Jesus

and 2.) You ... perhaps for a moment while you are sleeping.

No futher exceptions.

If you are correct, then God was unjust for giving commandments that are impossible to keep. That Jesus was a fool for telling the woman in John 8 and the paralytic in John 5 for telling them, "Go and sin no more!" And lying when He said, "when the Son sets you free, you will be FREE INDEED!" And that the Apostle John was a liar when he claimed that those abiding in Christ and in whom the word abides do not keep on sinning. And that Paul was a liar for claiming the gospel has power to set men free from sin. So......whom shall I believe, you or these witnesses?

[Woody]

Not injust at all. I find that God is very just. He came to forgive us our sins. If we could be sinless ... it would not have been necessary for Him to come and life a sinless life. He did it for us so that we don't have to.

[Michael144]

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If you are correct, then God was unjust for giving commandments that are impossible to keep. That Jesus was a fool for telling the woman in John 8 and the paralytic in John 5 for telling them, "Go and sin no more!" And lying when He said, "when the Son sets you free, you will be FREE INDEED!" And that the Apostle John was a liar when he claimed that those abiding in Christ and in whom the word abides do not keep on sinning. And that Paul was a liar for claiming the gospel has power to set men free from sin. So......whom shall I believe, you or these witnesses?

The commandments came to reveal sin. Jesus came because we cannot keep them. No we do not keep the sabbath. We acknowledge the sabbath but there are 9 other commands. Break the least and you break them all.

If we cannot think like the centurion (Matthew 8:5) then the gospel has not been realized.

[..but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed.] Now tell me, who is the servant? What did the servant have to do with this healing. Nothing. Think like the centurion toward the most evil you know.

[Michael144]

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And lying when He said, "when the Son sets you free, you will be FREE INDEED!

What do you tell yourself when you sin? And why hasn't God set you free yet if you sin?

So my conclusion is that you have been set free but do not yet realize it because you are stuck in the flesh.

[Stewart (SDA)]

A few thoughts which formed a part of the 1888 message.

Some may be surprised at the number of thoughts like these that exist in the writings of these two men.

Quoting AT Jones from ‘Lessons on Faith’, p.86.

“Can every believer have grace enough to keep him free from sinning? Yes. Indeed, everybody in the world can have enough to keep him from sinning. Enough is given, and it is given for this purpose. If anyone does not have it, it is not because enough has not been given, but because he does not take that which has been given.”

Quoting EJ Waggoner, Glad Tidings, p.42.

“If in anyone who has sought (and not only sought, but found) righteousness through Christ, there is afterward found sin, it is because the person has dammed up the stream, allowing the water to become stagnant.

The Word has not been given free course so that it could be glorified. And where there is no activity, there is death. No one is to blame for this but the person himself. Let no professed Christian take counsel of his own imperfections and say that it is impossible for a Christian to live a sinless life. It is impossible for a true Christian, one who has full faith, to live any other kind of life. "How can we who died to sin still live in it?" Romans 6:2.”

Also ‘Waggoner on Romans’ p.97. “People sometimes say that they can believe that God forgives their sins, but they find it difficult to believe that He can keep them from sin. Well, if there is any difference, the latter is the easier of the two; for the forgiveness of sins requires the death of Christ, while the saving from sins requires only His continued life.”

Stewart.

And perhaps one from Mrs. White...

“Men and women frame many excuses for their proneness to sin. Sin is represented as a necessity, an evil that cannot be overcome. But sin is not a necessity. Christ lived in this world from infancy to manhood, and during that time He met and resisted all the temptations by which man is beset. He is a perfect pattern of childhood, of youth, of manhood." (FLB 219)

[Stewart (SDA)]

Yes, every knee shall bow, but bowing does not mean they are saved. There are lots of people who have bowed the knee to a king while they are in rebellion against the king. We know that all will, including Satan, will acknowledge God's fairness and His right to rule the Universe, but those who bow are unchanged. It will be too late. At that time they will be what they are (Rev. 22: 11, 15), and God won't perform a miracle to make them different from their own choices. He honors our freedom to choose, and He won't force us to be saved. He takes our choices seriously.

The bottom line is that neither the Bible nor the Spirit of prophecy teach Universalism. On the contrary both teach that the wide road will have most people on it going to destruction, whereas the narrow road-- the one going to eternal life-- has relatively few people on it.

Amen.

[Gerr]

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And lying when He said, "when the Son sets you free, you will be FREE INDEED!

What do you tell yourself when you sin? And why hasn't God set you free yet if you sin?

So my conclusion is that you have been set free but do not yet realize it because you are stuck in the flesh.

Of course I've been set free! Jesus said it! And I believe Him!!! Here and now!!! Not by and by! By and by is glorification, not when we gain the victory!

The reason why so many are so skeptical and go through hoops to explain away Jesus' command, "Go and sin no more," and the Apostle John's confirmation of that reality when he said, "No one who abides in Him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen Him or known Him," is, as I have repeatedly maintained, not being able to distinguish between someone who is practicing sinning and living lawlessly from one who is a totally committed believer but who still does wrong inadvertently and not lawlessly because he is still imprisoned in this fallen flesh.

When a sinner is born again, he is NOT "split in two" as I seem to recall someone saying in another thread (was it you?), rather, a new seed, a new DNA, a new life-principle is implanted in the believing sinner. That new seed, that new spiritual DNA, that life-principle, germinates, "first the blade, then the ear, then the full grain in the ear."

As our Lord said, "No man can serve two masters." We are either slaves of sin, i.e. living & obeying everything sin tells us to do, or slaves of righteousness, i.e. living and obeying what righteousness tells us to do albeit imperfectly.

[Gerr]

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The commandments came to reveal sin. Jesus came because we cannot keep them. No we do not keep the sabbath. We acknowledge the sabbath but there are 9 other commands. Break the least and you break them all.

So then, you do believe God gave us an impossible law to keep!? That Jesus could not have been serious when He said, "Go and sin no more." That the Apostle John was lying when he claimed, "No one who abides in Him keeps on sinning...?"

Oh ye, of little faith!

[color:red]For this commandment that I command you today is not too hard for you, neither is it far off. It is not in heaven, that you should say, "Who will ascend to heaven for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and dot?" Neither is it beyond thye sea, that you shouyld say, "Who will go over the sea for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?" But the word is very near you. It is in your mouth and in your heart, so that you can do it." Dt 30:11-14 ESV. "....(that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved." Rom 10:7-10 ESV. When you love God and your neighbor from the heart albeit imperfectly, grace says, you have fulfilled the law, Rom 13:8-10, Gal 5:14. "For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are NOT burdensome." 1 Jn 5:3 ESV. "For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light." Mt 11:30 ESV.

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If we cannot think like the centurion (Matthew 8:5) then the gospel has not been realized.

[..but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed.] Now tell me, who is the servant? What did the servant have to do with this healing. Nothing. Think like the centurion toward the most evil you know.

Are you saying that if I thought/prayed/asked God like the centurion to save someone who is planning to blow up NYC will be saved no matter what he did?

[Woody]

We are not saved by our works Gerry. We are saved by the works of Jesus. He is our Saviour. So ... yes the man who blew up NYC could be saved no matter how terrible his actions were. There is nothing that God cannot forgive and save us from.

[Michael144]

Quote:

The commandments came to reveal sin. Jesus came because we cannot keep them. No we do not keep the sabbath. We acknowledge the sabbath but there are 9 other commands. Break the least and you break them all.

So then, you do believe God gave us an impossible law to keep!? That Jesus could not have been serious when He said, "Go and sin no more." That the Apostle John was lying when he claimed, "No one who abides in Him keeps on sinning...?"

Oh ye, of little faith!

[color:red]For this commandment that I command you today is not too hard for you, neither is it far off. It is not in heaven, that you should say, "Who will ascend to heaven for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and dot?" Neither is it beyond thye sea, that you shouyld say, "Who will go over the sea for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?" But the word is very near you. It is in your mouth and in your heart, so that you can do it." Dt 30:11-14 ESV. "....(that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved." Rom 10:7-10 ESV. When you love God and your neighbor from the heart albeit imperfectly, grace says, you have fulfilled the law, Rom 13:8-10, Gal 5:14. "For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are NOT burdensome." 1 Jn 5:3 ESV. "For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light." Mt 11:30 ESV.

Quote:

If we cannot think like the centurion (Matthew 8:5) then the gospel has not been realized.

[..but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed.] Now tell me, who is the servant? What did the servant have to do with this healing. Nothing. Think like the centurion toward the most evil you know.

Are you saying that if I thought/prayed/asked God like the centurion to save someone who is planning to blow up NYC will be saved no matter what he did?

2 Timothy 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

[Woody]

Amen.

[Michael144]

Quote:

The commandments came to reveal sin. Jesus came because we cannot keep them. No we do not keep the sabbath. We acknowledge the sabbath but there are 9 other commands. Break the least and you break them all.

So then, you do believe God gave us an impossible law to keep!? That Jesus could not have been serious when He said, "Go and sin no more." That the Apostle John was lying when he claimed, "No one who abides in Him keeps on sinning...?"

Oh ye, of little faith!

[color:red]For this commandment that I command you today is not too hard for you, neither is it far off. It is not in heaven, that you should say, "Who will ascend to heaven for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and dot?" Neither is it beyond thye sea, that you shouyld say, "Who will go over the sea for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?" But the word is very near you. It is in your mouth and in your heart, so that you can do it." Dt 30:11-14 ESV. "....(that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved." Rom 10:7-10 ESV. When you love God and your neighbor from the heart albeit imperfectly, grace says, you have fulfilled the law, Rom 13:8-10, Gal 5:14. "For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are NOT burdensome." 1 Jn 5:3 ESV. "For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light." Mt 11:30 ESV.

Quote:

If we cannot think like the centurion (Matthew 8:5) then the gospel has not been realized.

[..but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed.] Now tell me, who is the servant? What did the servant have to do with this healing. Nothing. Think like the centurion toward the most evil you know.

Are you saying that if I thought/prayed/asked God like the centurion to save someone who is planning to blow up NYC will be saved no matter what he did?

By the way you do realize that 9/11 was an inside job right? The the "terrorists" were actually trained on U.S. military bases. Fox news didn't tell you that did they Gerry.

I assume that is what you are referring to when you talked about blowing up NYC.

If 1 sheep of the hundred are lost will not the Shepard go and find that which is lost. I'm questioning your belief in the power of God Gerry. Do you think you are in some way more special than the very least in the kingdom.

No one comes to the father unless he draw him. God is no respecter of persons.

This scripture reveals who will be saved:

John 17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

You can add 2+2 but you can't answer how many God gave Jesus in the above verse.

Mark 4:12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.

Your unbelief is more than apparent.

Who can God save Gerry?

[Gerr]

Not injust at all. I find that God is very just. He came to forgive us our sins. If we could be sinless ... it would not have been necessary for Him to come and life a sinless life. He did it for us so that we don't have to.

On the contrary, "The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy [Gk luo - break (up), unloose, destroy, dissolve, melt, to loose one bound, i.e. to unbind, release from bonds, set free, discharge from prison, let go, to annul, subvert, to do away with, to deprive of authority, whether by precept or act, metaph - to overthrow, to do away with - Enhanced Strong's Lexicon] the works of the devil," 1 Jn 3:8 ESV.

If Jesus who is righteous, who had been vested with ALL power in heaven and on earth, dwells in the believer, how could he keep on practicing lawlessness? The Apostle John says:

[color:red]"By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is NOT of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother." 1 Jn 3:9 ESV.

Children of devil practice lawlessness. Children of God practice righteousness. The distinction is as clear as night and day.

[Gerr]

Let me get one thing perfectly clear: Are you of the belief that ALL will be saved? That none will be lost?

[Woody]

Those who believe on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ will be saved.

[Gerr]

We are not saved by our works Gerry. We are saved by the works of Jesus. He is our Saviour. So ... yes the man who blew up NYC could be saved no matter how terrible his actions were. There is nothing that God cannot forgive and save us from.

If you noticed Michael's post, he pointed out that the centurion's servant was healed solely on the basis of the master's faith, that the servant had no say so. So the point of what I said was not whether those who blew up NYC could be saved or not, the point was: Could they have been saved purely because I prayed for them apart from their own repentance and conversion?