Is It Possible to Live Without Sinning?

[olger]

I reject the Gospel of Works .... I accept the Gospel of Grace.

The Bible brings grace & works together in the life of Jesus the Christ. Then He bids us "Follow Me."

og out

[Michael144]

Originally Posted By: michael144

Have you stopped sinning yet Gerry?

One thing is for sure: if we think it's utterly impossible, it will never happen. We can go through life excusing ourselves for our sins and never overcoming them, but the Bible says the end of that is death.

Read Romans 6 and 8 and 1 John 1, 2 and 3. There's a big difference between sin reigning in the life-- being a slave to sin-- and being a slave to God and to righteousness.

It's not a question of being absolutely sinless or never committing a sin again. It's a question of who your Lord is-- whether Christ or some other.

Jesus' command: "You be holy, for I am holy." God alone can do this in us, but we have to be willing to be made willing. [/quote']

The question of this thread is not whom your Lord is.

I assume everyone here believes on the Lord Jesus.

You contradict yourself when you say in one statement the end of sin is death then you say

Quote:

It's not a question of being absolutely sinless or never committing a sin again.

So are we to climb steeple stairs on our bleeding knees when we sin.

The question is can we stop sinning?

According to the majority posts here, we can stop sinning, but no one here will answer if they indeed have. Because they have not. No one would dare say in this thread, "yes I have stopped sinning."

So if we can where is the physical evidence?

Has John317 stopped sinning and if not, why?\

[Woody]

Quote:

Has John317 stopped sinning and if not, why?

Good Question.

[John317]

Originally Posted By: John317

Read Romans 6 and 8 and 1 John 1, 2 and 3. There's a big difference between sin reigning in the life-- being a slave to sin-- and being a slave to God and to righteousness.

It's not a question of being absolutely sinless or never committing a sin again. It's a question of who your Lord is-- whether Christ or some other.

Jesus' command: "You be holy, for I am holy." God alone can do this in us, but we have to be willing to be made willing.

The question is can we stop sinning?

Yes, by God's power through the Holy Spirit we can cease to commit known, conscious sins. We're enabled to resist and overcome all temptations.

That's God's promise in the Bible and it is also stated in the Spirit of Prophecy.

Quote:

"If we would only believe, we should receive the Holy Spirit. The question is asked, "Is the Lord's arm shortened that it cannot save? is his ear heavy that he cannot hear?"--No, he now works in the hearts of those who ask, who believe that God is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think. We must not be discouraged if Satan seeks to leaven the mind with subtle unbelief while we are engaged in prayer, and our hearts are impressed with the high standard of holiness to which we would attain. The enemy will suggest that the Lord will not keep us from sinning, and make us obedient to all his requirements. He will direct our mind to our past imperfections, to our sins, failures, and mistakes, and tell us we need not expect to come off conquerors at last. We are not to listen to the suggestions of the enemy, or think that our unaided efforts can save us, but we are to believe that Jesus does the work for us. At times when we have exercised a little faith, we have experienced a little help, and we have hoped to be victorious overcomers. But have we had faith that through Christ we should be able to overcome every temptation as he overcame? We have not generally exercised this quality of faith." The Signs of the Times , September 12, 1892, paragraph 2;Article Title: The Promise Verified to Faith.-By Mrs. E. G. White.-

[Woody]

Quote:

Has John317 stopped sinning and if not, why?

Good Question.

Perhaps he will answer it.

[Michael144]

Originally Posted By: Michael144

The question is can we stop sinning?

Yes, by God's power through the Holy Spirit we can cease to commit known, conscious sins. We're enabled to resist and overcome all temptations.

That's God's promise in the Bible and it is also stated in the Spirit of Prophecy.

Quote:

"If we would only believe, we should receive the Holy Spirit. The question is asked, "Is the Lord's arm shortened that it cannot save? is his ear heavy that he cannot hear?"--No, he now works in the hearts of those who ask, who believe that God is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think. We must not be discouraged if Satan seeks to leaven the mind with subtle unbelief while we are engaged in prayer, and our hearts are impressed with the high standard of holiness to which we would attain. The enemy will suggest that the Lord will not keep us from sinning, and make us obedient to all his requirements. He will direct our mind to our past imperfections, to our sins, failures, and mistakes, and tell us we need not expect to come off conquerors at last. We are not to listen to the suggestions of the enemy, or think that our unaided efforts can save us, but we are to believe that Jesus does the work for us. At times when we have exercised a little faith, we have experienced a little help, and we have hoped to be victorious overcomers. But have we had faith that through Christ we should be able to overcome every temptation as he overcame? We have not generally exercised this quality of faith." The Signs of the Times , September 12, 1892, paragraph 2;Article Title: The Promise Verified to Faith.-By Mrs. E. G. White.- [/quote']

That is my point. You have already been saved from sin. Paul said sin is condemned in the flesh meaning it is in jail and cannot touch the inward man.

Just like a leopard cannot change his spots neither can the flesh inherit the kingdom of God. Corruption cannot inherit incorruption.

Just like a literal circumcision, the flesh is removed from the inward man set apart.

Then shall two be in the field..

Romans 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

Ecclesiastes 4:15 I considered all the living which walk under the sun, with the second child that shall stand up in his stead.

The sword of the Spirit circumcised us when it first came into our ears.

This is depicted in the baptism. The water is symbolic of the word which kills our flesh just as when Egypt (our flesh) attempted to pass over the Red sea. Only Israel (inward man) passes over the water (Word of God) safely

An example of the Word killing us is found all over scripture.

A perfect example is 1John 3:8,9

These two verses not only circumcise you but describe your two parts perfectly.

Jesus was not talking to the devil when he said to Simon, "get thee behind me Satan..." Moments before, praising Peter for understanding.

There are two of you sitting there, one born of Adam and one born of God whom cannot sin according to 1 John 3:9

Even if it appeared that we had stopped sinning our flesh is still dead and cannot be recovered which is why God had to circumcise us.

FLESH AND BLOOD CANNOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM NEITHER CAN CORRUPTION INHERIT INCORRUPTION.

[Gerr]

Quote:

So are we to climb steeple stairs on our bleeding knees when we sin.

There are some sins I've done that I felt like doing just that. Not that I could earn forgiveness by doing so, nor is it because God would

would be any less forgiving; it is because I am too ashamed of the deeds and pained too much for the hurt I've cause in others, and most of

all for the pain I've caused to the heart of my Lord.

Quote:

The question is can we stop sinning?

According to the majority posts here, we can stop sinning, but no one here will answer if they indeed have. Because they have not. No one would dare say in this thread, "yes I have stopped sinning."

So if we can where is the physical evidence?

Has John317 stopped sinning and if not, why?\

By your statements, do I understand you then to be saying that 1) God was unfair to have given a commandment that is impossile to obey 2) Jesus also gave an impossible command when He said,"Go and sin no more." 3) the Apostle John gave false testimony in 1 Jn 3:4-10?

[Gerr]

See my post, #224207.

"To him who is able to keep you from falling, and to bring you faultless and joyful before his glorious presence- 25 to the only God our Saviour, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, might, and authority, from all ages past, and now, and for ever and ever! Amen."

American Bible Society: The Holy Bible : The Good News Translation. 2nd ed. New York : American Bible Society, 1992, S. Jud 24-25

Here's a quote from my church bulletin this morning:

"He who has not sufficient faith in Christ to believe that He

can keep him from sinning has not the faith that will give him

an entrance into the kingdom of God." 3SM 360.

[Gerr]

Quote:

FLESH AND BLOOD CANNOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM NEITHER CAN CORRUPTION INHERIT INCORRUPTION.

That's why Jesus said, "You must be born again."

[Woody]

Yes Gerry. We know. God has the power. Why would ANYone limit God. He is ALL powerful. He can do ANYthing.

But we don't let Him. And it just ain't goin' to happen. It don't happen.

[Gerr]

Quote:

That is my point. You have already been saved from sin. Paul said sin is condemned in the flesh meaning it is in jail and cannot touch the inward man.

Sooooooo, if the flesh, the old man, is in jail, how much mischief can he do?

Quote:

This is depicted in the baptism. The water is symbolic of the word which kills our flesh just as when Egypt (our flesh) attempted to pass over the Red sea. Only Israel (inward man) passes over the water (Word of God) safely

Soooooooo, if the word kills our flesh, how much mischief can dead flesh do?

[Gerr]

Yes Gerry. We know. God has the power. Why would ANYone limit God. He is ALL powerful. He can do ANYthing.

But we don't let Him. And it just ain't goin' to happen. It don't happen.

Do you realize what you are saying? If you don't let Him, WHO then are you allowing to tell you what to do? John (the apostle) is clear: "Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil...."1 Jn 3:8 ESV. You can't serve 2 masters. That's why it "ain't goin' to happen." Until Christ IS LORD, it ain't/can't/don't happen. So what's your problem? Why can't you let Jssus be LORD?

To see why/how it can/will/does happen, read my post #224207 if you haven't do so already.

[Michael144]

Originally Posted By: Redwood

Yes Gerry. We know. God has the power. Why would ANYone limit God. He is ALL powerful. He can do ANYthing.

But we don't let Him. And it just ain't goin' to happen. It don't happen.

Do you realize what you are saying? If you don't let Him, WHO then are you allowing to tell you what to do? John (the apostle) is clear: "Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil...."1 Jn 3:8 ESV. You can't serve 2 masters. That's why it "ain't goin' to happen." Until Christ IS LORD, it ain't/can't/don't happen. So what's your problem? Why can't you let Jssus be LORD?

To see why/how it can/will/does happen, read my post #224207 if you haven't do so already.

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: Redwood

Yes Gerry. We know. God has the power. Why would ANYone limit God. He is ALL powerful. He can do ANYthing.

But we don't let Him. And it just ain't goin' to happen. It don't happen.

Do you realize what you are saying? If you don't let Him, WHO then are you allowing to tell you what to do? John (the apostle) is clear: "Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil...."1 Jn 3:8 ESV. You can't serve 2 masters. That's why it "ain't goin' to happen." Until Christ IS LORD, it ain't/can't/don't happen. So what's your problem? Why can't you let Jssus be LORD?

To see why/how it can/will/does happen, read my post #224207 if you haven't do so already.

[olger]

Yes Gerry. We know. God has the power. Why would ANYone limit God. He is ALL powerful. He can do ANYthing.

But we don't let Him. And it just ain't goin' to happen. It don't happen.

So you're saying that a man cannot choose to "let this mind be in you.." Doesn't that make God a hypocrite? (difficult for me to write that).

First you say that we have a choice ("we don't let Him") then you turn around and say we don't have the ability to choose "it just ain't going to happen." There is a fundamental incoherence in your position.

Which is it?

og

[Woody]

Not at all ...

[olger]

First you say that we have a choice ("we don't let Him") then you turn around and say we don't have the ability to choose "it just ain't going to happen." There is a fundamental incoherence in your position.

Which is it?

[Woody]

Thanks for that clarification olger.

I never said we don't have the ability to choose.

What I said is that our choice will not always be for God.

[cardw]

This whole discussion reminds me of a cartoon. In it this fellow called Russell builds a robot with free will and then tells the robot, "I have given you free will and the rule is if you do anything good then I get the credit and if you do anything bad then its your fault."

Silly, isn't it?

[olger]

What I said is that our choice will not always be for God.

Ok, you are positing an absolute here.

If the absolute is that man will never choose to submit his will to God, then man really doesn't have free will.

You cannot put limits on free will, and still call it free will. Ravi Zacharius explains this adequately in the Veritas Forum.

og

[Woody]

No limits are present. I am just predicting human choice.

[phkrause]

And that same God who doesn't care came down and died so that we can be reconciled with him. Otherwise why bother, he could have just let us all die if he wanted robots.

pk

[olger]

No limits are present. I am just predicting human choice.

I realize that you are, but I am afraid that imposing your personal experience upon all others is limiting their free choice. Just another form of judging people.

regards,

og

[olger]

At the very least it is an exercise in negative thinking that the Bible does not advise.

"Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things" (Phillipians 4:8).

Which one is Biblical?

"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me" (Phillipians 4:13)

"I will not do all things through Christ and don't have to."

og

[cardw]

And that same God who doesn't care came down and died so that we can be reconciled with him. Otherwise why bother, he could have just let us all die if he wanted robots.

pk

Well this is God making up a law that requires him to sacrifice himself to himself so that he won't require himself to kill all of us. It all makes sense?