Hoping America gets worse

[Bravus]

When Rush Limbaugh says he hopes Obama fails, that means he hopes Obama fails to help America. It's perilously close to hoping America fails.

[Liz]

Liz knows she is going to regret this.

So now disagreeing with the President is anti-American? Hmmm, interesting.

[Bravus]

Nope, not at all. The point is not that Limbaugh disagreed with the president, but that he hoped he failed. What does it mean for the president to fail? What are the consequences of that for America?

[Liz]

What is the difference between disagreeing with the President and/or disagreeing with his policies? Aren't they entwined?

[Bravus]

Again, saying "I think he has bad policies" seems to me to be different from saying "I hope he fails". Because if he fails, America gets worse. Isn't that logical? It seems as though Limbaugh hopes the current crisis just gets worse and worse for the next 4 years so that a Republican will get elected in 2012. But what happens to the people of America in the mean time?

It's putting party politics before the good of the nation as a whole. Wouldn't it be better to say "I disagree strongly with Obama and everything he stands for, but I hope he is able to help this country climb out of the crisis it's in and become stable and prosperous again, so that my fellow Americans' lives are better"?

I'm not trying to silence Limbaugh's voice, or deny him the right to his opinion. I just think he has expressed it in a very unfortunate way - and I hope people on all sides of politics can find it in their hearts to wish for the best for their country, not to wish bad for their country because it's good for their party.

I thought Bush was wrong to invade Iraq, and I predicted that the war would be a disaster, but I also hoped, once it was irrevocable, that it would be a success, for the sake of the American troops, the American people and most of all the Iraqi people.

[Liz]

I hear what you are saying. And since I didn't hear what Limbaugh (sp?) said, or even heard it in context, I can't really comment on what he meant.

I however, if I heard someone say "I hope the President fails", I would think that they were saying that they hoped the Presidents policies didn't come to fruition. And no that doesn't mean one wants America to fail, it just means that from one point of view America is in bad shape, and one believes that if all of the President's policies were to be put into place then America would be in even worse shape.

But like my Dad says, everyone is a Monday morning quarterback.

[John317]

When Rush Limbaugh says he hopes Obama fails, that means he hopes Obama fails to help America. It's perilously close to hoping America fails.

I see it as very different. What he is saying is that he wants Obama's socialistic policies to fail. He doesn't want socialism. He doesn't think it America needs socialism in order to succeed. But he is not saying he wants America to suffer or fail.

By the way, though, I know people who have told me that they wanted America to fail in Iraq. Why? Because they hated Bush and didn't want anything he did to succeed. Many were even glad to see America fail in order to bring Bush down.

I'm not doing that and I don't think Rush is, either, but it is true that a lot of Americans don't want socialism in this country, and those are the policies they want to see fail.

[Bravus]

Fair enough, I guess - but again, I'm interested on what would constitute 'failing', and what that would mean for the American people.

[John317]

If this "stimulus plan" doesn't work-- and I think there's a good chance it won't-- then it could get very bad indeed. Myself I wish they had tried a different way and hadn't spent so much on "pork" projects. And what I don't like, either, is that they voted for it without reading it. Lots bad stuff can be made into law that way.

I think even people supporting Obama say the economy is likely to get worse before it gets better, and it may not pull completely out for another 10 years. I hope they're wrong. But I expect unemployment to go up to 12%. I hope not but that is what it looks like in some places.

[Key Guy]

Quote:

It seems as though Limbaugh hopes the current crisis just gets worse and worse for the next 4 years so that a Republican will get elected in 2012.

Have you even read or listened to what Rush actually said? If so, you wouldn't be making statements like these. He clearly stated why he hoped the president fails and it has nothing to do with Obama personally. It has everything to do with the policies that are making our problems worse, not better.

Rush also clearly listed steps to be taken to reverse the economic crisis. Did anyone research that? No whining, but a presentation of a better solution, based on the successes of past history.

[Bravus]

I did actually read the full transcript of his original show where he said it, and also his fuller explanation later. I do actually do my research.

I'm also not looking for a brawl.

I still think the only way for the president to fail is for something to go badly wrong in the country, and think that's an unfortunate thing to wish for.

But I'm not gonna fight about it - believe as you wish.

[Dr. Shane]

The problem here is that the mainstream media has been reporting on things that Rush Limbaugh says and slanting their coverage to make him look bad. So people that don't listen to Rush Limbaugh have to get all their information about what he says from secondary sources.

Quote:

Because if he fails, America gets worse. Isn't that logical?

Rush Limbaugh would say "no". Rush would say that if Obama succeeds America gets worse because he believes socialism means less freedom and doesn't see Obama's stimulus programs as trying to help average Americans but rather trying to grow the size of the federal government.

Quote:

I just think he has expressed it in a very unfortunate way

Limbaugh is nothing less than a genius for expressing his concerns the way he has. If he had said, "I disagree strongly with Obama and everything he stands for, but I hope he is able to help this country climb out of the crisis it's in and become stable and prosperous again, so that my fellow Americans' lives are better" No one would have ever taken note. Saying what he said, the way he said it, has gotten him national coverage and numerous interviews on several national programs. His message is getting out.

Quote:

I thought Bush was wrong to invade Iraq, and I predicted that the war would be a disaster, but I also hoped... it would be a success people.

Thank God it was a success. Democrats in Congress tried to defend the war during the toughest days in order to guarantee failure.

[Dr. Shane]

I did actually read the full transcript of his original show where he said it, and also his fuller explanation later. I do actually do my research.

I don't see how anyone could have read the original transcript and those of following shows where Rush explained his comments and still made the post that started this thread. The original post that started this thread clearly shows that the person making it either didn't understand what Rush was trying to say or was purposely trying to mislead others about what Rush was trying to say. I certainly don't believe our friend Bravus was trying to mislead anyone here.

[Neil D]

Originally Posted By: Bravus

I did actually read the full transcript of his original show where he said it, and also his fuller explanation later. I do actually do my research.

I don't see how anyone could have read the original transcript and those of following shows where Rush explained his comments and still made the post that started this thread.

[Key Guy]

Quote:

Because if he fails, America gets worse. Isn't that logical?

Actually, no.... it isn't logical. If your neighbor is doing something harmful to your neighborhood, wouldn't you want his intentions and actions to fail? Wouldn't you be pleased if they did?

If Obama's intentions and actions fail, I will party because his policies of tax and spend are harmful to America.

When the administration rams a bill through congress without allowing opportunity to debate, breaking both election promises and congressional procedure, that cannot possibly be good for America. America governs itself, but this administration is bypassing that basic doctrine.

The debate is on anyway and today more congressional dems are jumping ship. The people are being heard. That's most excellent.

Long live democracy!!

[Neil D]

Quote:

Because if he fails, America gets worse. Isn't that logical?

Actually, no.... it isn't logical. If your neighbor is doing something harmful to your neighborhood, wouldn't you want his intentions and actions to fail? Wouldn't you be pleased if they did?

yeah, let's look at that "neighborhood" concept...Your neighborhood has some run down houses, along with some nice ones but the general trend is that houses have been not looking as nice but selling for large amounts of money and all of a sudden, they don't sell any more. Your neighbor does something radical...He tells the neighborhood associatation that we need to raise the dues to fix up the neighborhood and put in pathways and even get some windpower to supply the neighborhood and reduce our energy consumption costs. He even begins to expand his own house and is telling you the benefits of changing the exterior to a new siding that last's longer and reduces energy costs.

And you hear that the neighborhood is not selling houses because of the increase in neighborhood association fees. It's becoming less desirable to live here because of the inconviences of tearing up the neighborhood for the greenways coming in...In fact, the recent addition of wind turbines are becoming a new-cence [sp] because of the whiring sounds that they produce....

Yeah, I can see where that would be a real problem....

[Dr. Shane]

When Rush Limbaugh says he hopes Obama fails, that means he hopes Obama fails to help America. It's perilously close to hoping America fails.

This is the post that started the thread. Read it and read it again.

Now let's take it in parts.

Part 1: "When Rush Limbaugh says he hopes Obama fails"

This establishes the topic. The thread is going to discuss Limbaugh's hope that Obama fails.

Part 2: "that means he hopes Obama fails to help America."

This misleadingly explains what Rush wants to say by wishing Obama fails. Rush has clearly stated that he doesn't believe Obama's plan will help America. Rush believes Obama's plan will harm America. So when Rush says he hopes Obama fails he is saying that he hope Obama fails to harm America.

Part 3: "It's perilously close to hoping America fails."

Here we have a faulty conclusion based on a faulty understanding of what Rush was saying. If Obama fails to harm American, how does that cause America to fail?

DISCLAIMER: I personally disagree with Rush Limbaugh and would have never said this myself.

[Key Guy]

...it will only be temporary for we

know that things will get worse until JESUS comes

THAT is the truth.. no matter who's in office. But it doesn't mean I want to encourage our downfall.

(Yeah, I know... I need to be clear... to keep from getting jumped on, I'm not saying that anyone here is wanting that either).

[Woody]

Let me just provide another slant on this.

If King Obama succeeds (And I call him King because of the way he rammed the pork bill down our throats without allow people to even read it before voting and thus throwing Democracy out the window) ...

Yes, IF he succeeds ... he will have only more power and potential to do harm to Democracy. While there 'might' be short term success there will be much more long term harm.

So ... YES ... if King Obama succeeds ... we all fail. The country fails. Democracy fails.

[Key Guy]

"So ... YES ... if King Obama succeeds ... we all fail. The country fails. Democracy fails."

And that.. (Paul Harvey pause) ..is why his failure would be good for America.

[Neil D]

"So ... YES ... if King Obama succeeds ... we all fail. The country fails. Democracy fails."

And that.. (Paul Harvey pause) ..is why his failure would be good for America.

Democracy is the people of America. We elected him because he had a plan that Republicans didn't have. They had squat. Americans don't like squat. We want action, and Obama promised action....and so far, he's made action. And so far, the republican heads are not hearing that the common man is not able to make it day to day. Talking heads like Rush make $10 milliion for 8 years...You making that kind of money? I ain't. Never have. I never will. I doubt that you will also. But, the Republican talking heads do....And they are crying wolf because you ain't makin' it as well as they are...

[Key Guy]

Are you saying Rush is a hypocrite because he makes more money than you or I? What exactly does his earnings have to do with anything?

He just did this country a major service by creating a larger debate on the history, direction and purpose of the country and gov't.

Education and conversation are terrific things, even if folks don't agree. He stimulated that and I'm grateful we have the freedom to discuss, argue, debate and share opinions. What a country!

[olger]

Ameneth !! (old English amen)

[Woody]

Yes KeyGuy ... we do have that to thank Rush for. Obama's approval ratings are slippin' for a reason. People realize that he is the anti-democracy and anti-conversation president. He wants to dictate. Thus he is known as King Obama. Because of his honeymoon ... his spending and bail out plans of rich CEOs have been approved with out even reading the plans. But the real bipartisanship is now coming. But it is in opposition to Obama. More and more Democrats are joining the Republicans in opposition to Obama. He may have trouble passing his own budget.

I think we can ... as you say ... credit Rush Limbaugh for promoting some debate on the issue rather than succombing to King Obama and his taxation without review.

[Neil D]

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Can the GOP suceed?

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