Neil D Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Waitress are given a job whereby they please the customer with thier service... Managers in the financial sector are not pleasing customers. They are working for thier bosses. This is an inequality in the compensation of wages. And yes, the company needs to revisit those compensations and increase wages and remove bonuses. Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Managers do work for the customer. Everyone (except government employees) work for the customer. Bonuses are a good way to make sure that employees with little supervision do a good job. Getting rid of bonuses will result in less efficiency. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Quote: Managers do work for the customer. Everyone (except government employees) work for the customer. yes, everyone works FOR the customer...not everyone WORKS WITH a customer. Managers fall into the later catagory in that they do not work with a customer [unless they are a small business manager]. No, it's the employee that works directly with the customer. Therefore, it's the employee that deserves the bonus, as it is how the customer perceives how well he has been helped, if he comes back. It is not the manager that influences the customer. And yet, it is the manager who reaps the bonus.... Quote: Bonuses are a good way to make sure that employees with little supervision do a good job. Getting rid of bonuses will result in less efficiency. Depends...How would you give bonuses to teachers? Instead, we compensate them with salaries...fixed salaries. Which figures out to less than minimum wage. You want your kid educated by someone who is getting less than minimum wage???? [rhetorical question here] Compare that compensation with those who are paid by completed task. The more tasks you complete, the more money you make. Resulting in cheap quality taskes completed. Not necessarily efficent. In the case of the financial world, it would be best to phase out bonuses and compensate with a FAIR salary to which 95% of the people complete thier finacial tasks. There is nothing wrong with giving a small bonus to keep the efficency. Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted March 16, 2009 Author Moderators Share Posted March 16, 2009 I think we're straying off the topic a bit. Tips are meant to incentivize () good service. Bonuses are meant to incentivize good management. There need to be transparent criteria for when good management has not actually occurred so that bonuses can be withheld. Without that, bonuses revert to being simply salary, and don't serve their putative purpose. Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolaa Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Managers do work for the customer. Everyone (except government employees) work for the customer. Bonuses are a good way to make sure that employees with little supervision do a good job. Getting rid of bonuses will result in less efficiency. But the point is that they *haven't* done a good job. If they don't like not getting bonuses they don't earn, then they should be let go, and good luck to them on finding another job. Why are companies worried about losing these employees? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 everyone works FOR the customer...not everyone WORKS WITH a customer. Managers fall into the later catagory in that they do not work with a customer Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Webster ... Bonus bo⋅nus   /ˈboʊnəs/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [boh-nuhs] Show IPA –noun, plural -nus⋅es. 1. something given or paid over and above what is due. 2. a sum of money granted or given to an employee, a returned soldier, etc., in addition to regular pay, usually in appreciation for work done, length of service, accumulated favors, etc. 3. something free, as an extra dividend, given by a corporation to a purchaser of its securities. 4. a premium paid for a loan, contract, etc. 5. something extra or additional given freely: Every purchaser of a pound of coffee received a box of cookies as a bonus. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 When companies cut employees bonuses the employees leave. That is Business 101 folks. That is really, really basic stuff. These financial institutions are losing money because the housing bubble has popped and the economy has plummeted into a recession. They are not losing money because individual managers were not doing their jobs. We have the business world which is the real world where people live in reality. Then we have the political world where people live in a fantasy world of lies and propaganda. I understand both but choose to live in the first. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Quote: When companies cut employees bonuses the employees leave. That is Business 101 folks. That is really, really basic stuff. This is EXACTLY what we need to happen although I really doubt that they would leave in these economic times. Where would they go. Like pk said ... there are millions of unemployed workers that would love the job. And they haven't proved themselves to be failures ... like those that want their bonuses. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Oh and BTW. Shane I apologize for quoting the dictionary. For some stupid reason ... I had forgotten from previous experience that you don't accept the dictionary. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Oh and BTW. Shane I apologize for quoting the dictionary. For some stupid reason ... I had forgotten from previous experience that you don't accept the dictionary. That is normally the first resource people use when they are not familiar with a subject. This issue is a little deeper than Webster but certainly still basic in the world of business studies. Perhaps watching Chevy Chase's National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation would bring some up to speed. Specifically the ending where the lead character doesn't get his Christmas bonus. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Never met anyone with more excuses to ignore the dictionary. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Quote: Perhaps watching Chevy Chase's National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation would bring some up to speed. Specifically the ending where the lead character doesn't get his Christmas bonus. I understand this, Shane...What I am talking about is the whole industry. Perhaps it's time to make everyone a salaried individual, simply stated...no bonuses as there are some very talented, people who do the job very well without the need to job hop within the industry. Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Bonuses encourage excellence. Getting rid of bonuses would be very bad for an industry. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Never met anyone with more excuses to ignore the dictionary. How does Webster define "Guaranteed Bonus"? I worked for a company that gave guaranteed bonuses of a specified amount. The bonus would be larger than that based on the profitability of a manager's projects. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 WEll ... President Obama said today that he is going to do everything he can to stop those 'Guaranteed Bonuses'. Apparently he disagrees with your theories. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted March 16, 2009 Members Share Posted March 16, 2009 Good points Neil. But what's interesting to me is, I heard that bonuses are given out to those that make the company money not when the company is being bailed out because they are not making money. pk Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted March 16, 2009 Members Share Posted March 16, 2009 excellent post CoAspen. pk Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolaa Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 So, Shane, are you saying the taxpayers should pay for these bonuses? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 WEll ... President Obama said today that he is going to do everything he can to stop those 'Guaranteed Bonuses'. Apparently he disagrees with your theories. Obama is a Democrat. They use the politics of class envy to gain power by pitting one group of Americans against another group of Americans. I don't play that game. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Quote: Bonuses encourage excellence. Garbage! If that were true, then why do they need a bailout. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 So, Shane, are you saying the taxpayers should pay for these bonuses? I think the AIG Board of Directors knows more about running AIG than Washington politicians do. I don't kid myself into believing that AIG is somehow more to blame than the Washington political crowd. Why should I trust that a Washington politician knows more about running a giant insurance company than those sitting on the AIG Board of Directors? Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Quote: Paying bonuses for doing your job is one of the reasons for the economies failure, a big one. This goes contrary to everything taught in business colleges. It makes no business sense at all. It is more likely rooted in the violation of the Tenth Commandment. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 AIG is its employees... No, it's not. If we want to get technical, the stockholders are the company. Since the government owns much of AIG one might say that AIG is the government. However the debate is if the government knows more about running AIG than the Board of Directors does. I doubt that. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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