Should demon possessed people be held accountable

[LifeHiscost]

Vince Li, accused of stabbing, beheading and cannibalizing another man on a AP – Vince Li, accused of stabbing, beheading and cannibalizing another man on a Greyhound bus in Canada …

* Bus Beheading Trial Slideshow:Bus Beheading Trial

WINNIPEG, Manitoba – A Canadian judge ruled Thursday that a man accused of beheading and cannibalizing a fellow Greyhound bus passenger is not criminally responsible due to mental illness. The decision means Chinese immigrant Vince Li will be treated in a mental institution instead of going to prison. The family of victim Tim McLean said Li got away with murder.

"A crime was still committed here, a murder still occurred," said Carol deDelley, McLean's mother. "There was nobody else on that bus holding a knife, slicing up my child."

Li stabbed McLean dozens of times and dismembered his body last July while horrified passengers fled.

Justice John Scurfield said the attack was "barbaric" but "strongly suggestive of a mental disorder."

"He did not appreciate the actions he committed were morally wrong," Scurfield said.

Both the prosecution and the defense argued Li can't be held responsible because he had schizophrenia and believed God wanted him to kill McLean because the young man was evil.

Li will be institutionalized without a criminal record and reassessed every year by a mental health review board to determine if he is fit for release.

DeDelley said a yearly hearing is ridiculous and Li should be locked up for the rest of his life.

That Li killed the 22-year-old carnival worker was never in question at the trial. Li has admitted he killed McLean but pleaded not guilty.

Witnesses said Li attacked McLean unprovoked as their bus traveled at night along a desolate stretch of the Trans-Canada Highway.

Passengers fled and stood outside as Li stabbed McLean dozens of times and beheaded and mutilated his body. Finding himself locked inside the bus, Li finally escaped through a window and was arrested.

Li then apologized and pleaded with police to kill him.

Police said McLean's body parts were found throughout the bus in plastic bags, and the victim's ear, nose and tongue were found in Li's pocket.

A psychiatrist called by the prosecution testified that Li cut up McLean's body because he believed that he would come back to life and take revenge.

After the trial, government prosecutor Joyce Dalmyn said people who are mentally ill should be treated, not convicted, when they don't know what they did was wrong.

Li's lawyer, Alan Libman, said, "Mr. Li advised me after court that he's going to work with his treatment team because it's his desire to get better."

McLean's family says they will fight the law that allows people who are found not criminally responsible to be released into the community once they are deemed well, without serving a minimum jail sentence.

(This version CORRECTS that prosecutor said mentally ill should be treated, instead of should not be treated.)

[olger]

He should be made a senator !! Get a book deal... Be a guest on the Opera Windbag show. That's how we do it in America where right is called "wrong", and wrong is called "right."

oG

[Gail]

Sad, sad, sad.

[Cosmin M.]

I dislike bad news. Which is what most of the news is today. Did you guys know that when you read bad news it causes stress?

[phkrause]

That's agreed, but calling people names is not any better!

pk

[olger]

"Opera Windbag" comes from Adventures in Odyssey. I can't take credit for it but..

thanks,

og

[GreatLakesGramma]

He should never be allowed to walk free again. Paranoid schizophrenics can only be safe to others while on medication. And most mental patients don't keep taking their medications. They think, "I'm doing fine, I don't need this any more," - partly because they don't like the side effects, some of which can be pretty unpleasant. If they treat that man and let him go free, he will probably quit taking his medication and end up killing someone else.

One of my close friends in high school's father was paranoid schizophrenic. He was a really nice guy when he was on his medication, but he always quit taking it as soon as he felt he was OK. Then it was back off the deep end again. He threatened my friend's mother with a gun one time too many.

My best friend was married to a paranoid schizophrenic. He was a very dangerous man. He tried several times to strangle her. One night, as they were getting ready to go to bed, he came out of the bathroom and told her, "I told them I'm not going to do it." She asked "What?" He said, "they told me to kill you and I told them I'm not going to do it." He's also a pedophile. But he's never spent a day in jail.

When my friend found out he had been molesting their children and divorced him, Social Services threatened to take them away from her because she "allowed him" to molest them. And get this - the judge gave them JOINT CUSTODY!!!!

[Neil D]

[devil's advocate mode-on]

But Catherine....he's 'demon possessed'...and not responsible for his actions...therefore, we should ship him to Olgers place and let Olger cure him with a hands on exercisim....

[Gerr]

Accountable or not, such a person needs to be separated from society, i.e. locked up!

[GreatLakesGramma]

I agree. And locked up for life. Because they will never be cured. They will only have their mental illness controlled, and that only so long as they take their medication.

[Outta Here]

Is the man in this article demon-possessed or mentally ill?

[Neil D]

Is there a difference???

[John317]

He could be demon possessed but we don't know that. There are other reasons people do things that way. One of them is simply mental illness. It's impossible to diagnose demon possession without actually being with the person and asking them some pointed questions and hearing their answer. Most of the time the only way to know for sure is if the person says they are or that they feel that they have a demon inside them controlling them. They will often have other physical symptoms.

Besides, even demon possessed people must be held accountable by law for their actions.

[Outta Here]

I asked only because I wanted to know which one Christians believe to be uncurable.

[John317]

There is most definitely a difference. Not all mentally ill people are demon possessed, and often the demon possessed aren't mentally ill although they may sometimes act like it.

But most often demon possessed people act perfectly "normal" by societal standards.

[GreatLakesGramma]

There is most definitely a difference. Not all mentally ill people are demon possessed, and often the demon possessed aren't mentally ill although they may sometimes act like it.

But most often demon possessed people act perfectly "normal" by societal standards.

All very true. Mental illness is caused by messed up brain chemistry. And it tends to be hereditary.

[Planey]

Besides, even demon possessed people must be held accountable by law for their actions.

Did Jesus hold the demoniacs that He cured accountable for their actions?

Graeme

[John317]

Originally Posted By: John317

Besides, even demon possessed people must be held accountable by law for their actions.

Did Jesus hold the demoniacs that He cured accountable for their actions?

Graeme

When Jesus was on earth, he didn't hold anyone accountable for their actions. He came to save and not to judge or punish. He came as the Savior, not as the Judge or King.

But when He returns, it will be as Judge and King, and at that time the demon possessed will be very much held accountable for their actions. At the Second Coming, if a person is demon possessed, he will be lost and condemned. People become possessed by demons due to choices that individuals make.

[Neil D]

When Jesus was on earth, he didn't hold anyone accountable for their actions. He came to save and not to judge or punish. He came as the Savior, not as the Judge or King.

"How shall I inherit eternal life?" "How do you read the scriptures?"

"Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven. "

"He said to them, "Why are you afraid, you men of little faith?" Then He got up and rebuked the winds and the sea, and it became perfectly calm."

"But go and learn (what this means: 'I DESIRE COMPASSION, AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."

Maybe we are not understanding what "holding anyone accountable" is...as I suspect that these cursery texts shows some accountablity on the part of the individual when Jesus interacted with them.

[John317]

Originally Posted By: John317

When Jesus was on earth, he didn't hold anyone accountable for their actions. He came to save and not to judge or punish. He came as the Savior, not as the Judge or King.

"How shall I inherit eternal life?" "How do you read the scriptures?"

"Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven. "

"He said to them, "Why are you afraid, you men of little faith?" Then He got up and rebuked the winds and the sea, and it became perfectly calm."

"But go and learn (what this means: 'I DESIRE COMPASSION, AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."

Maybe we are not understanding what "holding anyone accountable" is...as I suspect that these cursery texts shows some accountablity on the part of the individual when Jesus interacted with them.

He said he didn't come to judge or condemn but to save. For example, there's the woman caught in adultery and other sinners he interacted with. He never condemned them, but as you your verses here show us, Jesus did explain God's standards and desires. He told people what would happen if they didn't repent.

But that is different from God's condemnation. When Jesus walked the earth, he was God, but he distinguished between His mission as a man and His work as Judge at the end of the world.

He came the first time to condemn sin in the flesh-- to show there was no excuse for it-- and to put the nail, as it were, in Satan's coffin.

[Gerr]

Is the man in this article demon-possessed or mentally ill?

What difference does it make? Either way, the reasoning power is off! And can't be accountable!

[Outta Here]

Originally Posted By: Aubrey

Is the man in this article demon-possessed or mentally ill?

What difference does it make? Either way, the reasoning power is off! And can't be accountable!

[John317]

HEY GERRY CABALO

I HAVE heard that mentally ill people are really

possessed

so should we let these people go free---put them in prison---

put then in a mental institution????/

dgrimm60

It's simply not true that we can assume all mentally ill people are really possessed. Some are; many are not. There are many reasons for mental illness, including chemical imbalances, and hereditary problems.

Many criminals have mental illnesses and some are indeed possessed. Others are harassed by the devil and still others are controlled by him.

[phkrause]

When I was a teenager in NY, the pastor of my church, Dr JM Hoffman, his wife ran a nursing home in upstate NY. He always mentioned to the people when he was giving D&R seminars and health lectures, that he had people in the nursing home that had mental problems and that with changing there diets he reversed there mental problems.

pk

[Neil D]

Originally Posted By: Neil D

"How shall I inherit eternal life?" "How do you read the scriptures?"

"Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven. "

"He said to them, "Why are you afraid, you men of little faith?" Then He got up and rebuked the winds and the sea, and it became perfectly calm."

"But go and learn (what this means: 'I DESIRE COMPASSION, AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."

Maybe we are not understanding what "holding anyone accountable" is...as I suspect that these cursery texts shows some accountablity on the part of the individual when Jesus interacted with them. [/quote']

He said he didn't come to judge or condemn but to save. For example, there's the woman caught in adultery and other sinners he interacted with. He never condemned them, but as you your verses here show us, Jesus did explain God's standards and desires. He told people what would happen if they didn't repent.

But that is different from God's condemnation. When Jesus walked the earth, he was God, but he distinguished between His mission as a man and His work as Judge at the end of the world.

He came the first time to condemn sin in the flesh-- to show there was no excuse for it-- and to put the nail, as it were, in Satan's coffin.

There is a difference between "accountability" and "condemnation"...While you said that Jesus didn't hold people accountable, my verses do show, along with your example of the Adulterous woman, an accountability...Here is the standard, there is your behavior. There is a discrepancy...what are you going to do about it? <- that is accountability, to my understanding....Condemnation, is also accountability, with the added pronouncement that a person will NOT change thier behavior and that is bad. I agree that Jesus was not condeming, but He still asked for accountability....