Neil D Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 Neil, my friend. I wish you were right. Oh how I wish you wrer right. Lets look at a little history. Remember Katrina? Do you know why it took so long to get the relief supplies in there? Because they went through and disarmed the people first. Everyone should watch the video. There are so many things wrong with this, I am not sure where to begin..... Survival is the basis of this video. Christ never promoted 'survival' in His book...They hit you on one cheek, you are to turn and offer the other as well..It's not about survival, Joe. This video is from the NRA. The NRA promotes the idea of everyone having a gun in every home to protect themselves. Trouble is, if someone comes into your home to steal, and you kill them, YOU get to go to jail. YOU did not promote life, but rather sought to take life from an individual. SDAs have a history/stance of non-military/non-combantant standards. We dont carry fireairms in battle because firearms can kill, which is against our 10 commandment ethics, that is, to promote the destruction of life thru killing. This whole episode of preparing for last day events with guns and stored food and such...center on the survival ethic...that is, the root cause of selfishness. This is totally against Jesus' ethic of sharing/selflessness. How you can justify this, this promotion of guns, survival...is beyond me. Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 I think Joe is showing how fast some of this may happen. To prepare spiritually,not buying guns and stockpiling food. It is really interesting to hear other christians,people that do not profess to be christian recognize things that are happening that will lead some kind of loss of freedoms. Wondering out loud about the possibility of persecution. Hearing SDA's saying nope not yet,our guy Obama is doing a splendid job Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 Tell me Neil if you wouldn't mind what are your thoughts on a president that did the following. Bush or any other president are responsible for any dishonest act they committed so don't dismiss this "Well he did it to" Quote: Clearly the man lied when he pretended his shock and outrage over AIG bonuses,knowing he approved yet took the opportunity to target private citizens with the power of the presidency,so many were just glad "they got theirs". You know this is true. What criteria do you use to believe the next "crisis"? I wonder if Dodd,Frank and the president just lied this time for our own good of course? Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 Good Post Bonnie. I will look forward to Neil's response if you get any. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Key Guy Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 Quote: Trouble is, if someone comes into your home to steal, and you kill them, YOU did not promote life, but rather sought to take life from an individual. So, self defense is seeking to take life? Here, all this time I thought the point and definition of self defense was to SAVE a life. I am to assume that the robber, thief, home invader is only there for the goods or cash, right? Man, am I messed up?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 Quote: Trouble is, if someone comes into your home to steal, and you kill them, YOU did not promote life, but rather sought to take life from an individual. So, self defense is seeking to take life? Here, all this time I thought the point and definition of self defense was to SAVE a life. I am to assume that the robber, thief, home invader is only there for the goods or cash, right? Man, am I messed up?! Self defense is to preserve your life., that is, where someone comes to take your life...But a robber comes to steal, and not kill, he comes to take things you can replace. You, having a gun, seek to take something you can not repay, ...his life. Big difference.... An arguement that the NRA does not recognise as valid.One that the Adventist church does by extention of thier position as pacifists... Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 Tell me Neil if you wouldn't mind what are your thoughts on a president that did the following. You are right, Bonnie....I do mind.... I mind, in that, I have to be careful what I say around you...I mind, in that, I don't want a blow up between us..I mind, in that, I know that places me in a poor position in discussing the outragious arguments that are put forth here. I mind, in that, I am seeking to promote more friendly atomsphere, and I find that this area is very toxic to me.... So, I hope you don't mind me not replying to the allegations and accusations of people who have differing values than what I concider vital... I hope you dont mind my not replying to posts whose very existance convey hatred of Adventist values over conservative Republican ones...I hope you don't mind me not replying because this place has been over run with toxic self-centered posts positioned to destroy and obliterate any hope in troubled times... I hope you don't mind if I don't answer that question.... Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 Quote: I mind, in that, I have to be careful what I say around you...I mind, in that, I don't want a blow up between us..I mind, in that, I know that places me in a poor position in discussing the outragious arguments that are put forth here. I mind, in that, I am seeking to promote more friendly atomsphere, and I find that this area is very toxic to me.... Nope,don't care how careful you are, only your impression of the obvious lie and demonizing of private citizens by the president. Quote: So, I hope you don't mind me not replying to the allegations and accusations of people who have differing values than what I concider vital... I hope you dont mind my not replying to posts whose very existance convey hatred of Adventist values over conservative Republican ones...I hope you don't mind me not replying because this place has been over run with toxic self-centered posts positioned to destroy and obliterate any hope in troubled times... Excellent try in trying to divert. What values are you even referring to? Those SDA's that believe the events portrayed in Rev are true and considered warnings and instruction for last day events? SDA values here are not under attack. This is so far over the top it doesn't even qualify as funny.xistance convey hatred of Adventist values over conservative Republican ones.. Quote: posts positioned to destroy and obliterate any hope in troubled times. God gives us hope in troubled times. Not you,me or Obama. Quote: I hope you don't mind if I don't answer that question.... I don't mind at all as you answered it very nicely. Thank you Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe_in_RP Posted April 3, 2009 Author Share Posted April 3, 2009 Neil. I do not have any guns. I used to but when The Spirit came into my life at baptism I realized these are instruments of death. I disposed of all my guns. But the right of other people to own guns is important to me. History shows that when these rights are violated government control follows.Did you watch the video? These are not NRA people. These are just common ordinary passive people who were stomped on by the government. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 It might be interesting to hear from the other Obama supporters why they don't have a problem with what has been done. What hatred for what SDA values has been shown by anyone Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 Neil. I do not have any guns. I used to but when The Spirit came into my life at baptism I realized these are instruments of death. I disposed of all my guns. But the right of other people to own guns is important to me. History shows that when these rights are violated government control follows.Did you watch the video? These are not NRA people. These are just common ordinary passive people who were stomped on by the government. The right of "other people to own guns is important" to you??? why? Are you planing to align yourself with those who might have guns and will protect you from the goverment?? I am sorry, but I don't understand this logic..... Unless you plan to allow guns for everyone, why is there a need for guns? Hunting, ok, but other than that, why have guns at all? I did watch the video. I watched a production made and edited by the NRA. You saw everything thru the NRA's eyes and thier values....Is that what you want? To be influenced by a group whose main purpose is to bring guns to every household? Apparently, you have forgotten that there were skirmishes with firearms between rescuers during Katrina trying to get to a flooding hospital and those nearby unnamed indivuiduals who took pot shots at the helicopter trying to get to the hospital... No wonder the guns were confiscated...John Q. Public takes a dim view of people who shoot at volenteers who come to rescue those who desire to be rescued. Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe_in_RP Posted April 3, 2009 Author Share Posted April 3, 2009 History shows that when these rights are violated government control follows. Democracy dies. Its an early warning barometer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 Ok, so these people have had thier rights violated, and now, tell me, where is the goverment control? Don't you think that 3-5 years is enough time to elapse for goverment to come in and take control? Concider that myth that Bush built concentration camps already for illegals, where is the push for gun control???? Me thinks your history is a bit off....or your logic is.... Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 Quote: I hope you dont mind my not replying to posts whose very existance convey hatred of Adventist values over conservative Republican ones...I hope you don't mind me not replying because this place has been over run with toxic self-centered posts positioned to destroy and obliterate any hope in troubled times... Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm ? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm ? Instead of spewing hatred ... why don't you just ... Well ... just do as you have suggested . Not post. I apologize Bonnie that you have to be treated like this. Very Sorry. But this poster IS a moderator. If only we could treat others as we want to be treated. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 Quote: I hope you dont mind my not replying to posts whose very existance convey hatred of Adventist values over conservative Republican ones...I hope you don't mind me not replying because this place has been over run with toxic self-centered posts positioned to destroy and obliterate any hope in troubled times... Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm ? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm ? Instead of spewing hatred ... why don't you just ... Well ... just do as you have suggested . Not post. I apologize Bonnie that you have to be treated like this. Very Sorry. But this poster IS a moderator. If only we could treat others as we want to be treated. When anyone takes the liberty or the right to tell another they have sold their soul they have stepped into a role they have no right to take. When a disagreement concerning Obama and his presidency is seen as conveying hatred of SDA values that should tell others Obama has been placed in a position no mortal should be. At one press conference Obama said "Unlike what you have heard I was not born in a manager" it was not funny or cute. Maybe it is just my hatred for SDA values but there are things with this man that should concern all Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 Quote: When a disagreement concerning Obama and his presidency is seen as conveying hatred of SDA values that should tell others Obama has been placed in a position no mortal should be. If disagreeing with Obama is hating the SDA church ... then we are on dangerous ground. All our fears of what an Obama presidency is being played out right before our very eyes. This is a sad time in history. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 History shows that when these rights are violated government control follows. Democracy dies. Its an early warning barometer. Most people that have concerns over the confiscation of guns understands where you are coming from. very few would see what you have said as an endorsement for killing someone. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 Quote: When a disagreement concerning Obama and his presidency is seen as conveying hatred of SDA values that should tell others Obama has been placed in a position no mortal should be. If disagreeing with Obama is hating the SDA church ... then we are on dangerous ground. All our fears of what an Obama presidency is being played out right before our very eyes. This is a sad time in history. Redwood ... Let me just add ... I think our ONLY Saviour is Jesus Christ. I would not place much faith in ANY politician. I know ... I am talking to myself again. Oh well. Reading the kind of things I have read on this thread have caused me to do so. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 Quote: When a disagreement concerning Obama and his presidency is seen as conveying hatred of SDA values that should tell others Obama has been placed in a position no mortal should be. If disagreeing with Obama is hating the SDA church ... then we are on dangerous ground. All our fears of what an Obama presidency is being played out right before our very eyes. This is a sad time in history. I have seen nothing other than a mistrust of Obama and a opinion as to his presidency. When you claim to know who another has sold his soul to and is showing a hatred of SDA values on a SDA site one would think that proof of that would be given. Or a retraction if there is not a solid reason for saying such. Especially coming from a moderator. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted April 3, 2009 Members Share Posted April 3, 2009 He's just letting all know who he is not. The media has labeled him, all seem to follow along and accept this as if Obama has gone out and told the media to say this about him. pk Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 He's just letting all know who he is not. The media has labeled him, all seem to follow along and accept this as if Obama has gone out and told the media to say this about him. pk I don't think you quite understand where the concern is coming from. It is not that he lied about AIG bonuses,it is not the pretend shock and outrage he showed,it is not the targeting private citizens with the full power of the presidency. It isn't just the easy acceptance of him doing this but the glee and satisfaction from so many.The "finally they got theirs". There is only one little problem,those that abuse their power will continue to abuse it as it becomes necessary in their eyes. Without the willing acceptance and the satisfaction so many took,he could not have gotten by with it. The green eyed monster and revenge is alive and well. Wait to see who is next. BTW,probably some bank CEO will be next from the sounds of things. Another power play fueled and made possible by the first they had the willing consent of american citizens. Good old tax cheat Geigtner has already said he wants the power to fire others. Others that they may see as in trouble whether they have taken a bailout or not. It has only begun. Right now it is those so many resent so that is a good thing. Wonder when it falls on their doorstep how loud will they yell. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 He's just letting all know who he is not. The media has labeled him, all seem to follow along and accept this as if Obama has gone out and told the media to say this about him. pk I never said he told them that. Any time someone is so revered that the media actually does act if he is the messiah we are in trouble. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted April 3, 2009 Members Share Posted April 3, 2009 What goes around comes around. Or like the Bible says you reap what you sow. I didn't hear you complain when Bush decided to go against the UN and others when he did the things that he did with Iraq. Now I didn't vote for Bush, but I agreed with him that we needed to do something. I was not for invading but when we did I backed him. Now we have Obama, I did not vote for him either, and I might disagree with some things but I will let him have his chance to see if he can do something to fix this situation. Besides God is in control and he is not going to allow things to get out of hand or allow things to get away from what he wants to happen. Its either going to move to an end or its going to settle down. pk Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 What goes around comes around. Or like the Bible says you reap what you sow. I didn't hear you complain when Bush decided to go against the UN and others when he did the things that he did with Iraq. Now I didn't vote for Bush, but I agreed with him that we needed to do something. I was not for invading but when we did I backed him. Now we have Obama, I did not vote for him either, and I might disagree with some things but I will let him have his chance to see if he can do something to fix this situation. Besides God is in control and he is not going to allow things to get out of hand or allow things to get away from what he wants to happen. Its either going to move to an end or its going to settle down. pk This one is a little tough to follow. What has Bush and the UN got to do with the lie and behavior of the current president? As for Oabma's chance We already know a few things. One is that he will lie and the american people will cheer I do not revere the UN as many seem to. Kofi Annan was compltely corrupt. If I remember correctly some countries belonging to the UN were actually profiting from protecting Saddam. And I should care that Bush went against them? If you do not more than disagree,and find it very wrong then I guess we will have to disagree. This is not just a difference of opinion on policy,this was flat out lying with the citizens saying "Way to go" I doubt anything he does will be seen as wrong after this. You may believe a few righteous lies are okay,it may not disturb you that a president paved the way for private citizens to be targeted,but I do. I am not sure what you are referring to that "he did in Iraq" but Bush is not the topic. This always sounds like my boys when they were younger. If one was in trouble they were very good at trying to get me to focus on that really big sin of their sibling. If this is as you say.............. Besides God is in control and he is not going to allow things to get out of hand or allow things to get away from what he wants to happen. Its either going to move to an end or its going to settle down. Then why is Bush always used as a diversion when Obama is concerned.God was in control. God approved of Bushes actions concerning Iraq. Whatever sin Bush committed God would not have let things things to get out of control or move away from what he wanted to happen. and did not allow things to get away from what God wanted to happen. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 Quote: I hope you dont mind my not replying to posts whose very existance convey hatred of Adventist values over conservative Republican ones...I hope you don't mind me not replying because this place has been over run with toxic self-centered posts positioned to destroy and obliterate any hope in troubled times... Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm ? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm ? Instead of spewing hatred ... why don't you just ... Well ... just do as you have suggested . Not post. I apologize Bonnie that you have to be treated like this. Very Sorry. But this poster IS a moderator. If only we could treat others as we want to be treated. Hmmmmmmm..... Putting words in my mouth that were never there? There's a violation of rules..."Conveying" is not "spewing"...And are you, Redwood, suggesting that I said that Bonny is "spewing" hatred? I never suggested any such thing....But you said I did..... And aren't you the one who makes a big deal over PMing if there's a problem with a post? I have no PM over this one.... Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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