bonnie Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 "the average patient waited more than 18 weeks in 2007 between seeing their family doctor and receiving the surgery or treatment they required" Average?!? That means half waited longer than 4 1/2 months. If I had a back pain issue for example, 4 1/2 months would seem like an eternity. AHHHHHHH,but it is free health care Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 Yes. KeyGuy. And this is what we would get with the Obamatization of Health Care. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Key Guy Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 Yes. KeyGuy. And this is what we would get with the Obamatization of Health Care. I think that's a safe assumption. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 If my husband had been under a health care plan in any country that has socialized health care he would be dead today. He had repeated strokes beginning at 58. Switching to another DR "he told my husband according to all we can see you are perfectly healthy. But whatever is wrong it will kill you if we don't find it. Beginning the next day we started a series of visits and tests with specialists,nothing showed. Our Dr went at it again and this time they discovered what was cauisng the strokes in a fairly young and very healthy man. Waiting months for all these tests I don't think he would have lived to have them Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Key Guy Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 Originally Posted By: KeyGuy "the average patient waited more than 18 weeks in 2007 between seeing their family doctor and receiving the surgery or treatment they required" Average?!? That means half waited longer than 4 1/2 months. If I had a back pain issue for example, 4 1/2 months would seem like an eternity. AHHHHHHH,but it is free health care Bonnie, the overall principle is the same. People would rather risk known health threats to eat a Big Mac because Big Macs are cheap and taste good. we look at the short term gratification of issues and prefer those options rather than face the short term pain of a long term benefit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 During this time with my husband his Dr's began to look like the United Nations. One from Pakistan, one Canadian,one from Japan and one American We spent enough time with them we got to know them as well as you can in that setting. When we chatted about why they left their home countries it was mainly because the US is on the cutting edge of new and innovative procedures. Available resources so care or diagnostic procedures were readily available with no waiting and did not have to be rationed. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted March 29, 2009 Members Share Posted March 29, 2009 A lot of radiologic exams done in the evening *afterhours* and/or at night are read in India and elsewhere via teleradiology. Some places use teleradiology for all of their exams, so you don't know *where* your exam is being read in some cases. (Nighthawk is an example of a teleradiology center.) Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted March 30, 2009 Moderators Share Posted March 30, 2009 I had a member who I thought was at least 7 months pregnant when I first came to my previous church. After a few more months I realized she couldn't be pregnant. She had fibroid's but could not afford to ge the operation one. He had experienced years of people saying "when is the Baby due?" Finally, a local surgical team at the Adventist hospital said they would do it for free. Now she is free. Something is very wrong with the American system of health care. Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted March 30, 2009 Moderators Share Posted March 30, 2009 I wasn't attacking anyone, especially thin-skinned pastors. If I am thin skinned I'm sure your "gracious" posting will thicken it nicely! Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted March 30, 2009 Moderators Share Posted March 30, 2009 There are definitely problems with Canadian and European health care systems. America may indeed be first in some aspects of heath care. In terms life expectancy and the health of the general population America lags behind most developed countries. Check out World Health Organization statistics. The current system is not serving its citizens and it is reflected in the overall health of the population. All Americans should be willing to lay ideology aside and do what is best for the overall health of its people. Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 I just think it is a shame, that people who live in a developed country, have to chose between their Home and their Healthcare. Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted March 30, 2009 Moderators Share Posted March 30, 2009 Another family from my church had a daughter that was a "preeme" and their bill for her stay in hospital was nearly $60,000. They have health insurance! They were able to get some discounts and blessings from the Lord and they are doing OK now but it was a major source of stress. And yes Stan they considered selling their house so they could deal with this massive bill. Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 Another family from my church had a daughter that was a "preeme" and their bill for her stay in hospital was nearly $60,000. They have health insurance! They were able to get some discounts and blessings from the Lord and they are doing OK now but it was a major source of stress. And yes Stan they considered selling their house so they could deal with this massive bill. If a family has the resources to pay they should. If they had that much equity in their home then take out a second mortgage and pay it. If not most hospitals nd Dr's will put patients on a payment plan. The hospital cannot force individuals out of their home. With that kind of debt load and no payment plan most will file bankruptcy. Even at that they will not forfeit their home. My neighbors daugther had a child out of wedlock. Multiple birth defects. Child was hospitalized for months. No insurance. Not one dime was paid by this young mother. There will always be some that fall thru the cracks,I am quite sure you would find them in any country. Just as my mother's cousin from Canada brought her husband to the US for medical care. She knew he was seriously ill and could not wait the time it would take to get in for tests. For most, there is medical care available when the people do their homework. If you are to poor to pay for a prescription and utilities or home there are remedies for that. Utility expenses for those that are facing that will be next to nothing thru a specific progrma. Those on it pay little more than 3-10.00 But you need to do your homework. The elderly that have their homes paid for can obtain a reverse mortgage,no strings,no turndowns. No repayments till death or sale. Free clinics are available in more than one area. Clinics for non emergency care are in many of the discount stores and large grocery stores. Very minimal cost. If medication cannot be paid for there is more than one avenue that gives substantial help. Flu shots,based on ability to pay. Elderly poor that need assisted living receive it,same quality of care. Elderly poor that require nursing homes are never turned away. Nor is there care substandard. They receive the same private nursing care when required and all else that goes with that. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Gail Posted March 30, 2009 Administrators Share Posted March 30, 2009 My son's girlfriend, on returning from Africa to live, discovered that she cannot get on a medical plan. Because she is epileptic, the rates of a regular plan are unattainable for her. She can apply for government assistance but has to wait six months in order to do so. In the meantime she'd better not start having seizures, I guess. But she did feel discouraged in having to wait. Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted March 30, 2009 Moderators Share Posted March 30, 2009 I'm sure all the remedies are available but that is why American life expectancy is lower than many developed countries and why the US ranks perhaps 20+ in overall health of the population. The system is broken despite the fact that more is spend here than any other country in the world! Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 My son's girlfriend, on returning from Africa to live, discovered that she cannot get on a medical plan. Because she is epileptic, the rates of a regular plan are unattainable for her. She can apply for government assistance but has to wait six months in order to do so. In the meantime she'd better not start having seizures, I guess. But she did feel discouraged in having to wait. That very well may be. However in most of these cases there is help available. It takes motivation and doing your homework. To many want that done for them as well Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 I'm sure all the remedies are available but that is why American life expectancy is lower than many developed countries and why the US ranks perhaps 20+ in overall health of the population. The system is broken despite the fact that more is spend here than any other country in the world! Well,I guess you can point me to the country that does not have flaws in it. If my life expectancy is shortened because I lack the motivation to get help perhaps I deserve a shorter life expectancy. As to what we spend,do you know where the most upto date medical procedures are developed? Where you are not put on a waiting list for much needed tests? Very few from the US go to Ca or overseas for medical treatment. But many do come here. Wonder why that is? Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted March 30, 2009 Moderators Share Posted March 30, 2009 Every system has flaws in it. The UK system has big flaws, I grew up under that system but living here now I see the benefits of the system we have despite its flaws. Quote: If my life expectancy is shortened because I lack the motivation to get help perhaps I deserve a shorter life expectancy. You can't be saying that the American people as a whole lack motivation. That surely is not true. We recently explored the option of switching to my wife's new health care plan. have one with a very low premium. The premium was about $1100 for our family! I'd rather pay the higher tax for a universal system. These insurance companies are gouging American citizens. Quote: As to what we spend,do you know where the most upto date medical procedures are developed? Where you are not put on a waiting list for much needed tests? Very few from the US go to Ca or overseas for medical treatment. But many do come here. Wonder why that is? [/quote'] Its great having the latest high tech treatments but if 40 million people cannot afford it its like hearing that Lexus has produced a 150 mpg car but it costs $80,000!!! Many come here because the can afford to and don't want the want to wait. Waiting is a disadvantage but I have never met anyone in the Uk who had to wait over 11 years for an operation because they did not have the money! Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted March 30, 2009 Moderators Share Posted March 30, 2009 Come on Gail, tell her just to "pull her socks up" that seems to be the answer! Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Key Guy Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 I had a member who I thought was at least 7 months pregnant when I first came to my previous church. After a few more months I realized she couldn't be pregnant. She had fibroid's but could not afford to ge the operation one. He had experienced years of people saying "when is the Baby due?" Finally, a local surgical team at the Adventist hospital said they would do it for free. Now she is free. Something is very wrong with the American system of health care. Doesn't sound that way. What did I miss in the story? I read that 1) A member had fibroids 2) She couldn't afford to get the operation for removal 3) An Adventist surgical team did the surgery for free 4) Now, she's over it Reading between the lines loud and clear... The gov't had nothing to do with her happy ending! Something sounds pretty good about the American system of health care, unless having surgery donated by good-hearted doctors/nurses is a bad thing. the right insurance is a fabulous service. However, the buyer typically never asks the right questions to pressure the insurers to provide the best coverage. That's not the fault of gov't. It's not the job of gov't. Our free enterprise system says "if you can't provide a good competitive service, you deserve to go out of business". There will be other competing and better companies that will step in. We have the best Capitalists in the world, most having a 'can-do' attitude that make great things happen.... as long a gov't gets way, way out of their way. When the gov't sets prices for services, then the whole system gets botched up. When I was a tech, we had 3 different prices for the same Chest X-ray: One for the self-paying patient, one for the gov't welfare coverage and one for insurance. What's wrong with this picture? I and the reading Radiologist did the same work using the same equipment. I'm quite certain these pricing structures are applied to all areas of medicine. Seriously.... tell me how that is fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 Come on Gail, tell her just to "pull her socks up" that seems to be the answer! They may be the answer you would have liked me to give,however that is not what I said. So maybe we can forgo the sarcasm as none was directed at you or at Gail,Thanks There are those that fall thru the cracks of any system. This girl may be one of them. However for the vast majority of americans there is medical help available. Many will not research best available options as long as the government is standing there waiting to give you their option without any effort. I have a little trouble believing someone waited 11 years for major surgery. Could depend on the surgery,depends on how much they did their homework. In any event tere would be very few people waiting for major surgery for that length of time. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted March 30, 2009 Moderators Share Posted March 30, 2009 Doesn't sound that way. What did I miss in the story? I read that 1) A member had fibroids 2) She couldn't afford to get the operation for removal 3) An Adventist surgical team did the surgery for free 4) Now, she's over it Reading between the lines loud and clear... The gov't had nothing to do with her happy ending! she had the condition for 11 years! Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted March 30, 2009 Moderators Share Posted March 30, 2009 Quote: There are those that fall thru the cracks of any system. This girl may be one of them. However for the vast majority of americans there is medical help available. The facts imply do not support your assertion. These are not cracks these are gaping chasms in a system that leaves the most vulnerable people to the mercy of insurance companies whose goal is to make money not provide health care. Quote: Illness and medical bills caused half of the 1,458,000 personal bankruptcies in 2001, according to a study published by the journal Health Affairs. BTW: pulling ones socks up is another way of telling someone to get motivated Quote: I have a little trouble believing someone waited 11 years for major surgery. Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted March 30, 2009 Members Share Posted March 30, 2009 Like I mentioned above, I have family that lives in Germany and they love the health care system. And also like I mentioned when my mom talks to her sister in Germany, her brother, or any other family, they can't believe the problems my mom has here in the USA to get health care or just what she has to go thru. pk Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 Like I mentioned above, I have family that lives in Germany and they love the health care system. And also like I mentioned when my mom talks to her sister in Germany, her brother, or any other family, they can't believe the problems my mom has here in the USA to get health care or just what she has to go thru. pk Is she on medicare? There are Dr's that will accept medicare only and not require the other 20%. If she is on SS they are taking medicare out of her check. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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