Stan Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 Well? Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted March 29, 2009 Moderators Share Posted March 29, 2009 No, he isn't, but it sure seems like it sometimes, doesn't it? -- He does have many fallen angels who assist him in his work, though, and they are very intelligent and highly organized. So in a sense, through these helpers, it is as if he were everywhere at once. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haldog Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 I don't think the devil is real up-to-date as the saying goes. 1) When Jesus was born in Bethlehem the devil didn't even know where, until Herod asked the wise-men where Jesus was so that he could kill Him. 2) When Moses was born the devil knew that a 'saviour' had been born but didn't even know where Moses was. Despite killing all the male babies of the Jews, Moses still lived. 3) When Jesus met the Gadarene demoniac, the demon said in Mark 5:7 "What have I to do with you, Jesus, Son of the Most High God". The evil spirit did not know the Jesus was a man! The spirit addressed Jesus as Son of God. He knew that, as God, Jesus did not have the authority on this earth to cast him out, thus he said "I implore You by God that You do not torment me" But the demon soon discovered that Jesus, as son of Man, had the authority. On earth, only flesh-and-blood men have authority, satan only has the authority that flesh(man)let's him have. The devil was defeated at the cross. The authority that Adam handed satan in the Garden of Eden has been returned to man. We now have the authority which God originally intended us to have. Praise God! Quote "You may not agree with everyone. But if you are an honest man, when someone says something you disagree with it’ll drive you to the Word. If you find out that you were wrong and change your thinking then you are the better for it. If you go to the Word and find out that you were right then you have been strengthened. But either way always go to the Word!!” Billye Brim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Cloned Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 The devil cannot be omnipresent because he cannot be where Jesus is! Light always dispels darkness. Quote Put the horse before the cart! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRyan Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 1. No created being can be in more than one place at the same time. 2. Satan can be places "through his agents" that work for him - just as anyone else can. 3. In Rev 12 Satan is cast down to this earth after the cross. His access to non-earth areas of intelligent life is either drastically limited nor nill - or maybe he has to invent machines to help him do what he can not naturally do any longer. Who knows. 4. On earth he is simply limited to his own presence and the reports-and-actions of those who work for him. in Christ, Bob Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Cloned Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 Thanks Bob. It is true that omnipresence is a Divine attribute, not a creature attribute. Quote Put the horse before the cart! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvin mccarty Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 Same could be said as to how God is omnipresemt....mel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted March 29, 2009 Administrators Share Posted March 29, 2009 Does he really need to be omnipresent? If the devil and his minions went on holiday would we even notice? The original investment he made in the race of men by planting the first seed of sin has paid off like long term compounding interest. I suspect the devil enjoys getting credit for all the evil we cause all by ourselves without his assistance. Is it easier for us to believe that he has to work real hard to get us to sin? Or that he dogs our every step and won't let us alone? Facing up to our own responsibility and sinful nature is hard to do. Bad to the bone... Tom Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daryl Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 The devil isn't omnipresent, however, his other fallen angel spies are just about everywhere here. Quote In His Love, Mercy & Grace Daryl http://www.maritime-sda-online.com https://www.pugwashsdachurch.org/media?page=1&sort_by=Date&is_ascending=0&search=&tags=&presenter= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted March 29, 2009 Members Share Posted March 29, 2009 the devil is also known as the accuser of the brethren, and it would make him oh-so-happy were we to start dwelling on those accusations of our own responsibility and sinful nature... **ponders** Do you really think that we sin without the devil's influence? Without his urging us on? Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted March 30, 2009 Administrators Share Posted March 30, 2009 If it is the devil urging me on, that voice in my head doing the urging too often sounds an awful lot like my own voice. I don't doubt or diminish the devil's influence, but I think we may be too quick to blame him for what we end up doing all by ourselves as a result of that influence. We tend to grab the ball and run with it. The old Flip Wilson joke that the devil made me do it too easily becomes a bit of a cop out to avoid taking responsibility for our own bad choices. That's why I asked about the devil's holiday. I suspect that evil would continue for a very long time unabated and undimished if they all took a long holiday to Mars. Tom Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted March 30, 2009 Moderators Share Posted March 30, 2009 Jesus is omnipresent through His personal representative, the Holy Spirit. He Himself is no longer able to be literally with each of us, because He is always in the flesh after the Incarnation. So to a degree I agree with [Mel]. God the Father also has a form, but He can take on various other forms when He chooses to, such as He did in Gen. 17 and other verses. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvin mccarty Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 Speaking of angels..."Are they not all ministering SPIRITS?" What is the difference between Holy Spirit and ministering Spirits? Possibly some of what we "know" is actually conjecture?...mel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted March 30, 2009 Moderators Share Posted March 30, 2009 The biggest difference is that the Holy Spirit is God and Eternal-- i.e., uncreated-- whereas the angels are spirit creatures. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted March 30, 2009 Administrators Share Posted March 30, 2009 That leads me to more questions at the risk, if not hope, of furthering our adventure in conjecture-land. (Theology as the theoretical study of God is but a more sophisticated and educated form of conjecture... I am just not afraid to face the uncertainty that entails for my opinions, theories, conjectures or what have you... I personally think that if we have no more questions, we just haven't dug deep enough and thought about the topic long and hard enough...) What exactly is a spirit creature? And aside from some nebulous and ethereal concept of form, (ie, lack of physical body) how would a spirit being differ from us mere mortals of earth? And on the original question, if a spirit creature, either demonic or angelic, is without the confines of form, do they have size or shape? What confines them to a specific space if they have no form? If it is as we have discussed in the angel topic that they might inhabit another dimension, does that dimension have parallel time and space, overlapping our time and space or something way beyond our capacity to know? If their split times for East to West Coast travel is nano-seconds couldn't a spirit creature keep up with two conversations, one on each coast, at our comparative snails pace? (The near instantaneous time to travel from God's side to ours alone suggests a near equivalent to being everywhere at once.) How do we even know that they have limitations that correspond to our time and space dimensions? If that were true could they not be in only one "location" in their dimension but that spot overlaps or covers multiple locations within ours? While maybe not everywhere at once, maybe multiple places at once within our time and space? (If their comparative size is big enough they could fill up our space and beyond and thus be everywhere at once within our limited time and space and still be quite limited compared to God...) Tom Embrace and revel in uncertainty and the imponderable realm of the unknown... Questions without answers are bridges to new discoveries of answers to questions yet to be asked. Explore like you honestly believe in infinity. Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Cloned Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Tom, I like your out of the box thinking. We humans seem to limit all life to our own limitations. We try to recognize when it comes to God but we, I, am still at times guilty of limiting God. I need to also be careful not to limit all of even God's creatures including Satan to our limitations. I do believe that we have been given info that Lucifer was confined to this world at the time of the Cross. I also do not believe that he exists outside of time and therefore has time travel ability (just my own limited conclusion). It may be deceptive since he has what might be called conditional temporary immortality. Since he has been alive for so long it might be seen that he exists in a different time dimension but whatever be the case we are told that he knows that his time is short, so it seems he does exist in time. Quote Put the horse before the cart! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aliensanctuary Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 These extraterrestrial beings we call Satan, God, and angels, have the ability to communicate telepathically, both transmit and receive. This is how the Chosen Ones in the next life will communicate with God and each other in the Restored Kingdom. Human thoughts are an open book to those above who can read them, just as easy as a hacker breaking into an unprotected computer. Human thought can also be manipulated by the unscrupulous agents of Satan, directing the infected to commit evil acts they ordinarily wouldn't have had they had defended themselves from attack. Our only defense against this telepathic warfare is to maintain continuous communication with God by sending our thoughts and requests in his direction. Someday we will hear his voice in our minds, telling us where to go, what to do. We can only guess where these evil beings are now located. Maybe they are entombed in the depths of an ocean, or, are very far away, awaiting their summons to fight the Last War of All Time in the skies and on the surface of our poor, unfortunate planet. Quote The Parable of the Lamb and the Pigpen https://www.createspace.com/3401451 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Cloned Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 Aliensanctuary, I like your idea of "communicate telepathically". I am not sure where to support this concept scripturally but it seems logical. I could not tell if you were saying this but I have been careful not to apply this ability to Satan to communicate with us in that fashion. I don't believe that Satan can read my thoughts. He is a student of the mind and may think he knows our thoughts but this is where he is limited. My silent prayer life is an extreem security for me. I can express my fears concerns and joys to my God with total confidentiality. This might have been what you were saying, I wasn’t sure. The idea is peaceful to me. Blessings! Quote Put the horse before the cart! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inga Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 The devil can NOT read our thoughts -- except as we give ourselves away. He's a pretty good student of human nature, I suspect. Only God can truly know our thoughts, and thus I suspect that His messengers, the holy angels, are also allowed to know our thoughts -- the better to lead us to God. Btw, I think Tom is right on point with most of his remarks. (Not sure I agree with the devil & his minions being able to escape from the dimensions that we inhabit.) Quote "Worship Him who made the heaven and the earth and sea and springs of water." Rev. 14:7 Check out what's new at Sabbath School Net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 Someone here posted that Jesus and the Devil can not be in the same place at the same time because "light dispels darkness"....I wonder then, how Moses was resurrected? Because at the graveside, Satan disputed with Christ over Moses' body....So much so, that the only thing that Jesus said was "The Lord rebuke you." At that point, Jesus went about resurrecting Moses while, I assume, the devil stood silently. Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted April 2, 2009 Members Share Posted April 2, 2009 Not sure that he stood there silently Neil. I think he went away complaining, one more time saying "Foiled again." pk Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Cloned Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 I believe Lucifer tried to keep Moses in the grave because he feared the significant of his resurrection. The dispute over Moses body could not have been much of a dispute; after all we are talking about the King of the universe and one of His creatures. Satan did not stick around very long at all. If God allows Satan to stick around then he can as with the wilderness temptations. But when the power of God is expressed Satan can not remain. He is a creature and can only be where God will allow him to be Quote Put the horse before the cart! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted April 3, 2009 Members Share Posted April 3, 2009 pk Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliAgins Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 Satan is not omnipresent. He is a created being. An angel that was assigned a place in heaven that was close to God. Remember a third of the angels chose to leave heaven with Lucifer. That must have been a number so large that we just don't have any real idea about it. Every time you are tempted does not mean that it is the actual fallen angel Lucifer/Satan that is tempting you. He has larger fish to fry. He has legions that are everywhere on earth doing the job of destruction of lives and souls. Armies of fallen angels that have had thousands of years to perfect their purposes. Lucifer goes to the elbow of world leaders in politics and religion and he works on planning big stuff...oh lets say the the murder of 6 million Jews... or the bombing of Pearl Harbor or the invasion of Iraq. Anytime he can get world leaders to go on a war rampage to murder he delights. Lucifer/Satan can not be in more than one place at a time. I'm sure he loves it that people think that he can. Must make him feel proud and strong. But we serve a Savior that defeated Satan. The Spirit of God is everywhere at the same time. When we are tempted to do wrong, that is when God says he would send all the angels of heaven to help us out. God has given us Freedom of Conscience. And that is because God IS love. Satan and his devils would force allegiance to himself in the guise of false religions. The angels that turned away from God are declining. Think about it. They do not have access to the Tree of Life. They are planning to do something so terrible before they are destroyed forever. It is always so hard to understand when someone commits a terrible act. Mass killings for instance and then they kill themselves. They know that they are doomed and they try to take as many as they can with them. That is just what Satan will do. We should rejoice because our Redeemer liveth and he has planned an amazing rescue from this planet before Satan can accomplish his plan. I wish everyone a very good Sabbath. AliAgins 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted April 11, 2009 Members Share Posted April 11, 2009 Thanks and have a blessed Sabbath yourself. pk Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.