Robert Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 Quote: No one is saying it's a sin to eat meat!!! Hmmmm.. If it keeps you out of the Kingdom, then what do you call it? See...you are presenting legalism. When I joined the SDA church back in 1988 I was told by the traditional/historic Adventists that if I continued to eat meat I would forfeit heaven. Also, at potlucks, the absence of meat was made up with deserts of every kind. Funny, didn't EGW say that deserts were much worse then meat? Yes, she did.... Anyway, if you want to attract folks to a healthier lifestyle that's one thing, but present it in a legalistic manner and they'll leave. My 2 cents, Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 No one is saying it's a sin to eat meat!!! Enter Ellen G. White ... who is turning over in her grave. Yes. According to Ellen White ... eating meat IS a sin. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo No one is saying it's a sin to eat meat!!! Enter Ellen G. White ... who is turning over in her grave. Yes. According to Ellen White ... eating meat IS a sin. Then Jesus sinned.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 Enter Ellen White ... who is turning over in her grave at the revelation that Robert is right. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 Moderation...moderation. Now, the thing is, how is your meat being prepared? That's the important question. Who is handling it? Is the animal free to roam and get exercise? Hence meats such as "free roaming chickens" and meats without growth hormones. So while too much meat is a bad thing - how it is raised and prepared is the most important factor. That's where the emphasis should be.... Again, my 2 cents Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 And it is amazing how much better free range meat tastes. I can personally verify this. Woe to me ... a sinner. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Key Guy Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 Here's the point: There is no doubt in anyone's mind that meat will not be served or consumed in Heaven. Therefore, at some point, anyone entering the Kingdom will have gotten to the point that meat-eating is not desired anymore. That desire in those that have died in Christ will be done away with. For the living, those that are 'in Christ', that desire will be dealt with here, in our lifetime, either now or in the future, before the second coming. It has nothing to to do with how meat is prepared. It has nothing to do with 'free range' or not. It has everything to do (along with all other aspects of our character) with pleasing and obeying Him out of a love response for what He has done for us. If we know meat eating will not occur in Heaven, then we already know what God's will is for us regarding this issue. Now, if that's legalism, then deal with it. But those are the facts and the logical conclusions. This isn't rocket science. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 Quote: 1 Corin. 15:51 Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality. I wonder when Jesus will change his own desire and taste for meat? Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Key Guy Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 Quote: I wonder when Jesus will change his own desire and taste for meat? So Jesus still eats meat in Heaven 'cause He has a desire for the taste? Perhaps He is sitting up there pining away that He is now forced to be a veggie. Maybe He sneaks off to another part of Heaven for a stick of beef jerky to feed His urge for flesh! Poor Jesus. Heaven must be hell for Him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 Therefore, at some point, anyone entering the Kingdom will have gotten to the point that meat-eating is not desired anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 Quote: 1 Corin. 15:51 Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality. I wonder when Jesus will change his own desire and taste for meat? See, that's a problem for KEY....Jesus, as God, came down and eat meat with Abraham. So did 2 angels. Now you can make the case that Jesus met Abraham where he was at and hence didn't refuse what was offered to Him, but nonetheless Jesus, as God, eat meat. And "no" there won't be any Kentucky Fried Chicken in heaven. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 Quote: I wonder when Jesus will change his own desire and taste for meat? So Jesus still eats meat in Heaven 'cause He has a desire for the taste? News flash: God doesn't need to eat at all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 Quote: I wonder when Jesus will change his own desire and taste for meat? So Jesus still eats meat in Heaven 'cause He has a desire for the taste? Perhaps He is sitting up there pining away that He is now forced to be a veggie. Maybe He sneaks off to another part of Heaven for a stick of beef jerky to feed His urge for flesh! Poor Jesus. Heaven must be hell for Him. Have you considered that He imports? Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Key Guy Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 Quote: There's be no Capitalism in heaven...no self-seeking...yet I don't see Christians renouncing their worldly possessions. So if the meat goes, so does the self-seeking and the accumulation of our things.... They go too, Robert. But, that's purely speculation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 Quote: There's be no Capitalism in heaven...no self-seeking...yet I don't see Christians renouncing their worldly possessions. So if the meat goes, so does the self-seeking and the accumulation of our things.... They go too, Robert. But, that's purely speculation. Not at all....In heaven there'll only be "agape". Agape, by definition, is a love that has no "self" in it. It is a selfless love that lives only for others and never for self. EGW agrees: "In heaven none will think of self, nor seek their own pleasure [i.e., own way]; but all, from pure, genuine love [agape], will seek the happiness of the heavenly beings around them." [2T 132] That is to say: "You will have that love which seeks not her own, but another's wealth." [DA 439] Capitalism is based on self-interest and the accumulation of wealth for one's self and family. It is based on the love of self, Satan's brand of love. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Key Guy Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 It's safe to quote Mrs White about one aspect of Heaven, but not another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 It's safe to quote Mrs White about one aspect of Heaven, but not another. My point was that if you are going to insist that we give up meat...then you must give up your possessions. Live Christ's life of agape love only. Then I'll give up the meat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Key Guy Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 Quote: Live Christ's life of agape love only. Then I'll give up the meat. While we're at it, should we humans give up or change anything else to meet your conditions? (now is the time to speak up, man) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 Quote: Live Christ's life of agape love only. Then I'll give up the meat. While we're at it, should we humans give up or change anything else to meet your conditions? (now is the time to speak up, man) It's not my conditions...it the law's! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Key Guy Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 Live Christ's life of agape love only. Then I'll give up the meat. That was your condition, sir... you stated it that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 Rob's point is well taken. The law condemns us ... there is no way out of it. We all fail. Guess we will have to accept the blood of Jesus on our behalf. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 Originally Posted By: Robert Live Christ's life of agape love only. Then I'll give up the meat. That was your condition, sir... you stated it that way. You asked, "should we humans give up or change anything else to meet your conditions?" My conditions are simple, live Christ's life - a life in full harmony with the law of God and I will stop eating meat. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 Guess we will have to accept the blood of Jesus on our behalf. You mean no pride? You mean nothing I do can gain me merit? Say it ain't so Joe! (To borrow a Sarah P. quote). Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted April 25, 2009 Moderators Share Posted April 25, 2009 Originally Posted By: KeyGuy Quote: No one is saying it's a sin to eat meat!!! Hmmmm.. If it keeps you out of the Kingdom, then what do you call it? See...you are presenting legalism. When I joined the SDA church back in 1988 I was told by the traditional/historic Adventists that if I continued to eat meat I would forfeit heaven. Also, at potlucks, the absence of meat was made up with deserts of every kind. Funny, didn't EGW say that deserts were much worse then meat? Yes, she did.... Anyway, if you want to attract folks to a healthier lifestyle that's one thing, but present it in a legalistic manner and they'll leave. My 2 cents, Rob I don't know what kind of weed you are smoking or meat you are eating to interpret what I said as legalism!!! Would you kindly show where I ever said you can gain eternal life by avoiding meat? Or miss it by eating it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted April 25, 2009 Moderators Share Posted April 25, 2009 Originally Posted By: KeyGuy It's safe to quote Mrs White about one aspect of Heaven, but not another. My point was that if you are going to insist that we give up meat...then you must give up your possessions. Live Christ's life of agape love only. Then I'll give up the meat. By the same reasoning then, since no one can live up to God's agape love, therefore I shouldn't give up meat, alcohol, drugs, fornication, cheating, murder, gossip, or whatever? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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