Worship the Creator not the destroyer

[Lutz13]

Quote:

(2 Corinthians 4:4 GW) The god of this world has blinded the minds of those who don't believe. As a result, they don't see the light of the Good News about Christ's glory. It is Christ who is God's image.

People may worship him as a God(even in ignorance). It doesn't make him one. Which is why I believe God tells him. "Will you still say before him who slays you, 'I am a god'? But you shall be a man and not a god in the hand of him who slays you."(Ezekiel 28:9)

[teresaq]

Quote:

Read and understand this. "The fire of God fell from heaven and burned up the sheep and the servants, and consumed them; and I alone have escaped to tell you"

Right, clearly Satan did this. God, because of Job's persistent self-righteous attitude, backed off or as it states in Romans - "He gave them over"... That allowed Satan to come in and destroy.

where does it say this?

from what i read God made a point of how righteous job was.

[LifeHiscost]

I am happy that has worked for you. It wasn't that easy for me. Even believing in God wasn't easy for me. I was not ok with text that contradicted.

For example, what are your thoughts on these?

"Now Satan stood up against Israel, and moved David to number Israel"(1 Chronicles 21:1)

"Again the anger of the Lord was aroused against Israel, and He moved David against them to say "go, number Israel and Judah."(2 Samuel 24:1)

I'm satisfied that David, being a man after God's own heart, was willing to put himself in a position where even the most unsavory chore needing to be accomplished was not something he would not do, including the cutting off of the head of an enemy of God's people.

Israel, because of their need for chastisement, and David, who had some very undesirable carnal attributes, both needed correction that God knew would take place under David's choice to number Israel, which choice was predetermined to bring the results necessary to move all hearts involved to open display of the direction of the inner man, and thus reveal to each individual involved, the danger of their course of action.

"He who leans on, trusts in, and is confident of his own mind and heart is a [self-confident] fool, but he who walks in skillful and godly Wisdom shall be delivered." Proverbs 28:26 AMP Brackets their's LHC

"For the Lord your God is God of gods and Lord of lords, the great, the mighty, the terrible God, Who is not partial and takes no bribe."Deuteronomy 10:17 AMP

" Opening his mouth, Peter said: "I most certainly understand now that God is not one to show partiality,"Acts 10:34 NASB

Blessings!

[oldsailor29]

I was not ok with text that contradicted.

For example, what are your thoughts on these?

"Now Satan stood up against Israel, and moved David to number Israel"(1 Chronicles 21:1)

"Again the anger of the Lord was aroused against Israel, and He moved David against them to say "go, number Israel and Judah."(2 Samuel 24:1)

I think most of the contradictions we can find in scriptures are the result of different writers. The results of divine inspiration has always been a mixture of human and divine.

[Robert]

Originally Posted By: Robert

Quote:

Read and understand this. "The fire of God fell from heaven and burned up the sheep and the servants, and consumed them; and I alone have escaped to tell you"

Right, clearly Satan did this. God, because of Job's persistent self-righteous attitude, backed off or as it states in Romans - "He gave them over"... That allowed Satan to come in and destroy.

where does it say this?

from what i read God made a point of how righteous job was.

The righteousness of works or faith? A careful reading will reveal works. He even brags, but when God addresses him he repents:

Job 40:4 "Behold, I am vile [not righteous]; What shall I answer You? I lay my hand over my mouth."

Why did Job lay his hand over his mouth? What was he saying?

Job 32:1 So these three men stopped answering Job, because he was righteous in his own eyes. 2 But Elihu son of Barakel the Buzite, of the family of Ram, became very angry with Job [why?] for justifying himself rather than God.

Two things:

1] Job was righteous in his own eyes.

2] Job even justified his righteousness before God instead of God vindicating Job.

So Job's problem was legalism.

3 He was also angry with the three friends, because they had found no way to refute Job, and yet had condemned him.

You see Job's 3 friends were accusing Job of some secret sin. They insisted God was punishing Job because of sin. But is that how God works? No! So they were misrepresenting God.

Job wasn't practicing a secret sin as in sin is transgression of the law. Job's sin was the sin of pride. He was very proud of his righteousness. That's why he ends up repenting:

Job 42:6 Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.

[Robert]

I'm satisfied that David, being a man after God's own heart,

[Robert]

The results of divine inspiration has always been a mixture of human and divine.

Hmmm?

[LifeHiscost]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

Do you believe Moses was inspired by God?

Mark

I smell a trap....I see a man who refuses light and then tries to muddy the water by going to Moses and the Old Covenant.

When it comes to the Old Covenant we need to stay clear of it. All the mayhem tied in it was never God's intent. It, the law of Moses, was given to open the eyes of Israel that's there's none righteous no not one. If you wish to be "under law" then you are under the reign of the "ministry of death". (2 Cor 3:7)

I am supposing the Ten Commandments are being referred to here as the law of Moses. Or at the very least, the Old Covenant law that no longer has a part to play in the New Covenant Christian's life.

OC: ‘You shall have no other gods before Me.

New Age: You may have as many gods as you like and before me if you choose.

OC: 8 ‘You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; 9 you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, 10 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

New Age: You may make any carved image to which you choose to bow down.

OC: 11 ‘You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.

New Age: You may use the name of God any way you choose.

OC: 12 ‘ Observe the Sabbath day, to keep it holy, as the LORD your God commanded you

New Age: You may ignore the day God has chosen for you to remember and choose any or all days as of equal importance.

OC: ‘ Honor your father and your mother, as the LORD your God has commanded you, that your days may be long, and that it may be well with you in the land which the LORD your God is giving you.

New Age: You may choose to dishonor those who gave you life on this earth, or as it suits you.

OC: ‘You shall not murder.

New Age: Murder away, or whatever is necessary, as you choose.

OC: "‘You shall not commit adultery."

New Age: You may have wives of all that you may choose, in whatever order it pleases you.

OC: "‘You shall not steal. "

New Age: You may take any and all that you need or want.

OC: "‘You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor."

New Age: You may tell whatever story will make you look good to others.

OC: "‘You shall not covet"

New Age: You may lust after whatever makes you sated.

"

And if it seems evil to you to serve the LORD, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of (your choice), in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.”"Joshua 24:15 NKJV Parenthesis mine LHC

Regards!

[Robert]

I am supposing the Ten Commandments are being referred to here as the law of Moses. Or at the very least, the Old Covenant law that no longer has a part to play in the New Covenant Christian's life.

Let me give you an EGW statement:

The terms of the “old covenant” were, Obey and live: “If a man do, he shall even live in them” (Eze. 20:11; Lev. 18:5); but “cursed be he that confirmeth not all the words of this law to do them.” Deut. 27:26.

Part to play? Well, what do you mean? If you mean "obey and live" then that is OC legalism.....

As to what laws are under the law of Moses the answer is all the laws contained in the first, five books of the OT. That's the law of Moses.

[Robert]

What law is Paul referring to here:

Gal 3:23 Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. 24 So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law.

[LifeHiscost]

God is longsuffering, and doesn't want anyone to perish, but eventually He has to destroy evil, because He is just. I think the reason people are afraid of God being a big, scary out-to-get-you monster is that they don't understand His loving mercy in destroying evil to protect His children. When God destroys Satan and His followers (willing followers, I might remind you), He is doing what is just and getting rid of evil forever. Same in the Old Testament; when people got so bad that God knew they would never turn back to Him, it was just to destroy them to protect His children from them and their evil influences. If God had not destroyed the Canaanites, and Sodom and Gomorrah, etc., then I imagine that terrible things would have come from them. We just have to trust that whatever God does is right and not question Him by our standards of "just" and "unjust", because God can see all time and knows exactly what to do.

This post deserves a second look. And then maybe a third.

Man is limited in his insights as a perverted part of the universe and is presumptious to believe himself capable of judging correctly, for right or wrong, Almighty God, and should hang his head in shame who believes himself to be so wise.

"But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him." Hebrews 11:6 KJV

"He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love."1 John 4:8 KJV

"Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men."

1 Corinthians 1:25 KJV

Blessings!

[LifeHiscost]

Originally Posted By: SivartM

God can see all time and knows exactly what to do.

Amen :-)

I take the view that I know God is loving, everything He does is motivated by love.

So when I get home, He can explain everything to me, as He will in the 1000 years.

Mark

[LifeHiscost]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

For love to be true, has to be willing to eliminate evil, otherwise it (love) must love evil also!!!

I agree. :-)

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

"For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light." Mt 11:30.

Since it's so easy I assume you are perfect? No? Jesus yoke is grace....He was addressing the legalists of His day. You can't see this, huh? Sad....

Quote:

"For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome." 1 Jn 5:3 ESV

And his commandment? Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved. Your right, that isn't burdensome. But living under law, well, I don't see you measuring up. So being under law is a yoke of bondage. Why? Since you never are measuring up the law condemns you to the grave. And that's not bondage???

Quote:

"Loving God means keeping his commandments, and really, that isn't difficult." NLT

NLT? Well, that's a paraphrased, but whatever....If it isn't difficult why do you still practice the love of self? Why is there self-seeking in your life? Did you get your goodies by being selfish or unselfish?

You are to love your neighbor as you naturally love yourself. Self-love is sin according to the spirit of the law. So it's not that difficult?

Yep, I've seen you quote ONE text out of 1 Jn that you think supports your position and laugh at the rest that contradicts your sick notion of love.

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Robert

No, I mean one's view of God will eventually lead him/her to do as they perceive Him doing. Look at King David...Saul before he became Paul. The disciples, all fighting and ever ready for contest ....Etc, etc.... [/quote']

Look, we are all ignorant of many things....That's not necessarily bad, BUT...according to Christ,

"There will even come a time when anyone who kills you will think he's doing God a favor. They will do these things because they never really understood the Father." [John 16:2,3 MSG]

What's to understand? Well, look at the OT. I see god of wrath...of cruel vengeance. After all there was a lot of blood letting in the name of God.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm. Behold him who laughs when a paraphrase is used while he himself uses one because it's convenient!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Lutz13]

Quote:

For love to be true, has to be willing to eliminate evil, otherwise it (love) must love evil also!!!

Thanks for the human definition of love Gerry. Now please explain Gods love.

[Lutz13]

Quote:

God could have destroyed Satan and his sympathizers as easily as one can cast a pebble to the earth; but He did not do this. Rebellion was not to be overcome by force. Compelling power is found only under Satan's government. The Lord's principles are not of this order. His authority rests upon goodness, mercy, and love; and the presentation of these principles is the means to be used. God's government is moral, and truth and love are to be the prevailing power. [Desire of Ages, page 759

[Gerr]

Quote:

For love to be true, has to be willing to eliminate evil, otherwise it (love) must love evil also!!!

Thanks for the human definition of love Gerry. Now please explain Gods love.

Just turn to 1 Cor 13 & Ex 20:1-18, if you think that what I described above is merely human love.

[LifeHiscost]

God sends them delusion? Really - how can a righteous God deceive? God cannot lie....It's impossible. Neither can God destroy...it is not in His nature.

If God doesn't deceive folks then neither does He kill.

"The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness."2 Thessalonians 2:9-12

NKJV Underlined mine LHC And that's New Covenant

Blessings!

[Gerr]

Quote:

God could have destroyed Satan and his sympathizers as easily as one can cast a pebble to the earth; but He did not do this. Rebellion was not to be overcome by force. Compelling power is found only under Satan's government. The Lord's principles are not of this order. His authority rests upon goodness, mercy, and love; and the presentation of these principles is the means to be used. God's government is moral, and truth and love are to be the prevailing power. [Desire of Ages, page 759

If you think the above quote is supporting your notion that God does not destroy evil, you are quite mistaken. Love postpones the destruction to allow evil to show its true colors.

If sin is the ACTIVE terminator of sinners, why is it that people do NOT go puff in smoke every time they sin? Why did not Satan? Why are they still around?

[LifeHiscost]

So Job's problem was legalism. Job's sin was the sin of pride.

Since there is no specific texts that says that, I'm supposing you have further substantiating evidence to the facts. Or is this the gospel according to man's wisdom.

"Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes, And prudent in their own sight!"Isaiah 5:21 NKJV

"Do you see a man wise in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him." Proverbs 26:12 NASB

Regards!

[LifeHiscost]

for it has been given to me,

Now these words were directly out of the mouth of the deceiver! And we're asked to believe that? as sufficient evidence.

Usurped authority is not ownership. So his statement was based on a lie.

If there is a Scripture to the contrary I will stand corrected.

Regards!

[Lutz13]

Quote:

If you think the above quote is supporting your notion that God does not destroy evil, you are quite mistaken. Love postpones the destruction to allow evil to show its true colors.

Not sure how you come to that conclusion, but ok. If you say so.

Quote:

If sin is the ACTIVE terminator of sinners, why is it that people do NOT go puff in smoke every time they sin? Why did not Satan? Why are they still around?

I believe grace is the answer. Why hasn't the world gone crazy yet? Because God is holding back the four winds. Once that restraint is gone people will go crazy.

Look all around you and you can see what sin leads to. Death. God doesn't force Himself onto us, so sometimes He just has to do what we want Him to do. Which is to go away.

[teresaq]

Originally Posted By: teresaq

where does it say this?

from what i read God made a point of how righteous job was.

[/quote']

The righteousness of works or faith? A careful reading will reveal works. He even brags, but when God addresses him he repents:

Job 40:4 "Behold, I am vile [not righteous]; What shall I answer You? I lay my hand over my mouth."

Why did Job lay his hand over his mouth? What was he saying?

Job 32:1 So these three men stopped answering Job, because he was righteous in his own eyes. 2 But Elihu son of Barakel the Buzite, of the family of Ram, became very angry with Job [why?] for justifying himself rather than God.

Two things:

1] Job was righteous in his own eyes.

2] Job even justified his righteousness before God instead of God vindicating Job.

So Job's problem was legalism.

3 He was also angry with the three friends, because they had found no way to refute Job, and yet had condemned him.

You see Job's 3 friends were accusing Job of some secret sin. They insisted God was punishing Job because of sin. But is that how God works? No! So they were misrepresenting God.

Job wasn't practicing a secret sin as in sin is transgression of the law. Job's sin was the sin of pride. He was very proud of his righteousness. That's why he ends up repenting:

Job 42:6 Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.

theses texts were not at the beginning of the book. this is what God said.

Job 1:1 There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.

Job 1:8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

...Job 1:22 In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly.

even after satans attacks God still said of job:

Job 2:3 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.

jobs friends kept insisting that job had done something wrong for all these things to happen to him. job set them straight on that point. i suppose one could look at it as "self-righteous" but i believe God wanted us to see what He, God, considers righteousness. it was God Who was the One that stated that job was righteous in the first place.

jobs friends made all his troubles far worse than they were by playing that little "blame game" on the poor man. they could have sympathized with him, but all in all, job did not curse God for what happened to him.

and at the end, God said:

Job 42:7 And it was so, that after the LORD had spoken these words unto Job, the LORD said to Eliphaz the Temanite, My wrath is kindled against thee, and against thy two friends: for ye have not spoken of me the thing that is right, as my servant Job hath. Job 42:8 Therefore take unto you now seven bullocks and seven rams, and go to my servant Job, and offer up for yourselves a burnt offering; and my servant Job shall pray for you: for him will I accept: lest I deal with you after your folly, in that ye have not spoken of me the thing which is right, like my servant Job.

[Lutz13]

Quote:

Now these words were directly out of the mouth of the deceiver! And we're asked to believe that? as sufficient evidence.

Usurped authority is not ownership. So his statement was based on a lie.

If there is a Scripture to the contrary I will stand corrected.

Regards! peace

"Now is the judgment of this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out."(John 12:31)"I will no longer talk much with you, for the ruler of this world is coming, and he has nothing in Me"(John 14:30)"Jesus answered, 'My kingdom is not of this world, if My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here.'"(John 18:36)"In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them."(2 Cor 4:4)

Who was dominion given to when this world was created?

"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."(Genesis 1:26)

When Adam and Eve ate the fruit, they handed Satan their world. Since God(Creator) said they would die. Satan said they wouldn't die. They believed Satan over God. By doing so, they made Satan their god.

Satan then injected death and corruption throughout the land.