True-believer Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 We report today on Hillary Clinton’s announcement last week in Congress that the US government will begin a global push for a right to abortion. She also linked family planning with abortion, a clear violation of the Cairo Program for Action. We also report today on the Senate hearings of Harold Koh to be the top legal adviser at the US State Department. With him in this position, you can count on greater US engagement in the radical global agenda for abortion and homosexual rights. We chose these two “American” stories because of the impact these two individuals will have all over the world. Spread the word. Quote Luke 4:19To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tammy Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 I have often wondered why as a Church, the SDA Church does not take a strong stand against abortion. The only reason I can come to is that there is so much money involved....it seems like everything has to do with money. Recently, I was made aware of an article, written by a Catholic. I think that when it comes to Abortion, Catholics are closer to the truth than many Adventists. Here is teh article: Quote: Abortionist Family Dies - The Untold Story of the Montana Plane Crash2009 MARCH 25 I just ran across this story. See what you think. Pray for the family. Family of Irving ‘Bud’ Feldkamp, Owner of the Nation’s Largest Privately Owned Abortion Chain, Dies in Montana Plane Crash Christian News Wire MEDIA ADVISORY, Mar. 24 /Christian Newswire/ — Some of you may have seen the major news story of the private plane that crashed into a Montana cemetery, killing 7 children and 7 adults. But what the news sources fail to mention is that the Catholic Holy Cross Cemetery owned by Resurrection Cemetery Association in Butte - contains a memorial for local residents to pray the rosary, at the ‘Tomb of the Unborn’. This memorial, located a short distance west of the church, was erected as a dedication to all babies who have died because of abortion. What else is the mainstream news not telling you? The family who died in the crash near the location of the abortion victim’s memorial, is the family of Irving ‘Bud’ Feldkamp, owner of the largest for-profit abortion chain in the nation. Family Planning Associates was purchased four years ago by Irving Moore “Bud” Feldkamp III, owner of Allcare and Hospitality Dental Associates and CEO of Glen Helen Raceway Park in San Bernardino. The 17 California Family Planning clinics perform more abortions in the state than any other abortion provider - Planned Parenthood included - and they perform abortions through the first five months of pregnancy. Although Feldkamp is not an abortionist, he reaps profits of blood money from the tens of thousands of babies that are killed through abortions performed every year at the clinics he owns. His business in the abortion industry was what enabled him to afford the private plane that was carrying his family to their week-long vacation at The Yellowstone Club, a millionaires-only ski resort. The plane went down on Sunday, killing two of Feldkamp’s daughters, two sons-in-law and five grandchildren along with the pilot and four family friends. The plane, a single-engine turboprop flown by Bud Summerfield of Highland, crashed into the Catholic cemetery and burst into flames, only 500 ft. from its landing destination. All aboard were killed. The cause of the crash is a mystery. The pilot, who was a former military flier who logged over 2,000 miles, gave no indication to air traffic controllers that the aircraft was experiencing difficulty when he asked to divert to an airport in Butte. Witnesses report that the plane suddenly nosedived toward the ground with no apparent signs of a struggle. There was neither a cockpit voice recorder nor a flight data recorder onboard, and no radar clues into the planes final moments because the Butte airport is not equipped with a radar facility. Some speculate that the crash was due to ice on the wings, but this particular plane model has been tested for icy weather and experts have stated that ice being the cause is unlikely. In my time working for Survivors of the Abortion Holocaust, I helped organize and conduct a weekly campaign where youth activists stood outside of Feldkamp’s mini-mansion in Redlands holding fetal development signs and raising community awareness regarding Feldkamp’s dealings in child murder for profit. Every Thursday afternoon we called upon Bud and his wife Pam to repent, seek God’s blessing and separate themselves from the practice of child killing. We warned him, for his children’s sake, to wash his hands of the innocent blood he assisted in spilling because, as Scripture warns, if “you did not hate bloodshed, bloodshed will pursue you”. (Ezekiel 35:6) A news source states that Bud Feldkamp visited the site of the crash with his wife and their two surviving children on Monday. As they stood near the twisted and charred debris talking with investigators, light snow fell on the tarps that covered the remains of their hildren. I don’t want to turn this tragic event into some creepy spiritual ‘I told you so’ moment, but I think of the time spent outside of Feldkamp’s - Pam Feldkamp laughing at the fetal development signs, Bud Feldkamp trying not to make eye contact as he got into his car with a small child in tow - and I think of the haunting words, ‘Think of your children.’ I wonder if those words were haunting Feldkamp as well as he stood in the snow among the remains of loved ones, just feet from the ‘Tomb of the Unborn’? I only hope and pray that in the face of this tragedy, Feldkamp recognizes his need for repentance and reformation. I pray that God will use this unfortunate catastrophe to soften the hearts of Bud and Pam and that they will draw close to the Lord and wash their hands of the blood of thousands of innocent children, each as precious and irreplaceable as their own. “I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. Choose life, then.” (Deut. 30:19) http://jimblazsik.com/2009/03/25/abortio...na-plane-crash/ Quote When the character of Christ shall be perfectly reproduced in His people, then He will come to claim them as His own. {COL 69} The Narrow Way Ministires 5464 State Road Kingsville, OH 44048 choose_the_narrow_way@yahoo.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 President Bush tried to push democracy on the world and many thought of him as arrogant for doing so. Now Obama is going to try and push abortion on the world. We will if those same critics think it arrogant for him to do so? Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olger Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 Whoa.... wow Bud Feldkamp is an Adventist? The owner of Glen Helen National Motocross park? Whoa.. Sabbath National races (starting this year). Also owns abortion clinics...? Have we just put a sword in the hands of our enemies? Man, I got to ponder this... Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tammy Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 I think from what I've been reading online, this story has been posted everywhere...seems as everyone knows it, except Adventists... It makes me understand better, why we have not taken a Pro-Life stand, as a Church....money.... Quote When the character of Christ shall be perfectly reproduced in His people, then He will come to claim them as His own. {COL 69} The Narrow Way Ministires 5464 State Road Kingsville, OH 44048 choose_the_narrow_way@yahoo.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olger Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 Whoa.... Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olger Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 How many women carry this regret around, Tammy? Is it 41 million? let me know as soon as possible... thx Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tammy Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 I don't know, Olger....but it is astounding... Quote When the character of Christ shall be perfectly reproduced in His people, then He will come to claim them as His own. {COL 69} The Narrow Way Ministires 5464 State Road Kingsville, OH 44048 choose_the_narrow_way@yahoo.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olger Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 I believe it is 41-million...just researched it. Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tammy Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 Why would the Catholics listen to what we have to say about the Sabbath, when they know that we have no respect, as a denomination, for life? Quote When the character of Christ shall be perfectly reproduced in His people, then He will come to claim them as His own. {COL 69} The Narrow Way Ministires 5464 State Road Kingsville, OH 44048 choose_the_narrow_way@yahoo.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 How many women carry this regret around, Tammy? Is it 41 million? let me know as soon as possible... thx Probably not as many as one would think. We are pretty desensitized where it concerns abortion. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outta Here Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 Wow. I am astounded of the things I've been reading regarding the Official Adventist recommended guidelines concerning abortion. I had NO idea what Adventists are supposed to believe. This just blows me away: http://www.adventist.org/beliefs/guidelines/main_guide1.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 I hope, and not all are going to agree with me on this, BUT I HOPE the Church never tells us what to think. Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolaa Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 Wow. I am astounded of the things I've been reading regarding the Official Adventist recommended guidelines concerning abortion. I had NO idea what Adventists are supposed to believe. This just blows me away: http://www.adventist.org/beliefs/guidelines/main_guide1.html What exactly is it that blows you away? It doesn't look like anything earth shattering to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olger Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 Originally Posted By: olger How many women carry this regret around, Tammy? Is it 41 million? let me know as soon as possible... thx Probably not as many as one would think. We are pretty desensitized where it concerns abortion. Sorry, I meant how many women have had abortions? The fact that they have regrets & consequences was immaterial. Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derrell M Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 There are two wonderful women very close to me who could have been happily aborted with the blessing of the Church as per Church policy regarding what justifies an abortion. These women are successful, happy and have beautiful families. They are also SDAs. Their mother chose to let her daughters live, but she lives in "sin" acording to Church policy and would not be allowed membership. As per published policy, the church would bless the death of her daughters should she have chosen to have the girls killed, but cannot abide her in life. Who is closer to Christ... a Church that would have blessed the killing of these girls, or a woman living in "sin?" who chose to make sure her babies lived and thrived? I agree with Stan that the Church cannot tell us what to think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tammy Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 Wow. I am astounded of the things I've been reading regarding the Official Adventist recommended guidelines concerning abortion. I had NO idea what Adventists are supposed to believe. This just blows me away: http://www.adventist.org/beliefs/guidelines/main_guide1.html I know, Aubrey! It is horrible! Yers ago, back in 1980, I was a student at Southern. Neil Wilson was the GC President. He came to speak at a Question/Answer forum Sabbath afternoon on campus. Someone asked him, "Why do all our Adventists hospitals do abortions?" My husband and I looked at each other, and I thought, surely, he is going to tell them that the hospitals do not do abortions! But no.....he said, "Well, if we don't give them the abortions, they will just go somewheres else to get them, so we may as well offer it to them." I couldn't NOT believe what I heard! I was shocked! And to hear it from the GC President, with my own ears! Quote When the character of Christ shall be perfectly reproduced in His people, then He will come to claim them as His own. {COL 69} The Narrow Way Ministires 5464 State Road Kingsville, OH 44048 choose_the_narrow_way@yahoo.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aldona Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 I hope, and not all are going to agree with me on this, BUT I HOPE the Church never tells us what to think. I agree with Stan. I think I have mentioned this on other threads in the past, but here goes. I'm a medical practitioner, I do not perform abortions, and I pray that I am never in a situation where abortion is one of the options. When I was doing my ob/gyn training, I was a conscientious objector when it came to abortion - meaning I was excused from being involved. This was easy, as my clinical supervisor was a Catholic ob/gyn and he thought likewise. However, there were two cases that we WERE involved in, about which my conscience does not trouble me in the slightest. (1). A lady who found out, at nine weeks of pregnancy, that she had a very aggressive form of thyroid cancer - and that in order to have the treatment that would potentially save her life, she would have to sacrifice the pregnancy. (and if she went ahead and had the radiation/chemo anyway without terminating the pregnancy, it was virtually certain that she would miscarry anyway.) And yes, she did have the treatment, was given the all-clear, and a few years later did go on to have a healthy baby girl. (2). A devout Christian lady who found out at her 18-week ultrasound that her baby had no arms or legs, and severe brain deformities as well. After much heartache, prayer and soul-searching, she and her husband made the difficult decision that it was not fair to bring a child like that into the world. Unfortunately, we live in a sin-tainted planet, and while abortion is a great evil, there are some circumstances in which it may be the lesser of two evils. I do not know what proportion of abortions feature cases like the ones I mentioned, but even if it is a very small minority, for these people's sake abortion needs to be available, legal and carried out in safe circumstances by someone who knows what they are doing. (not to mention cases of rape or incest). Interestingly, the last teenage mom that came to my clinic with an unplanned pregnancy was an 18-year-old who found herself pregnant to her unemployed, drug-and-alcohol-abusing boyfriend, who was completely freaked out at the idea of being a parent and was pressuring her to have an abortion. She was about as atheist as it is possible to be (had spent her senior year in high school on debating teams tearing religious ideas to pieces and trying to "prove" there was no God), but she was adamant that there was NO WAY she was going to kill this baby, and nothing on the planet was going to make her change her mind. When the boyfriend tried to increase the pressure, she told him to take a hike, and he did. She is now raising her little boy with help from her mother, and has met a lovely guy who treats her and the baby like royalty. Someone with a strong ethical conviction like that will not have an abortion regardless of whether it is legal, illegal, available at every corner grocery store, preceded by compulsory counselling or not, or requiring multiple different forms to be signed by two doctors, a lawyer, a social worker and an ethics committee. Most of the girls who do go on to have an abortion are the ones who say things like "My parents want me to get rid of it," or "My boyfriend/husband wants me to get rid of it." Someone who is in this situation and whose level of inner conviction is being outweighed by the pressure being applied (emotional, social or financial), will find a way to end her pregnancy even if it is illegal and involves great risk and harm to herself. This was the case for thousands of years before abortion was legalized - just look at the number of old herbal and traditional medicine books that have potions designed to "bring back delayed or absent menstrual courses" or similar coy language. Or speak to older ob/gyns such as those who trained at the Royal Women's Hospital in Melbourne (and wrote about it in the recent book, "Sex and Suffering", about the history of that facility) in the 1940's or 1950's - there would be always at least one ob/gyn resident on duty at all times, constantly busy performing curettes to finish off "halfway complete miscarriages" for all of the women who came in bleeding after "falling down the stairs", "falling off the horse", "moving heavy furniture", etc. When abortion was decriminalized in Victoria in the late 1960's, pregnant women magically became less accident prone and this constant stream of mishaps suddenly dried up. Maybe if we want to reduce the number of abortions, we need to start with people's attitudes (both male and female), and the level of support that we (as individuals and as a society) give those with unplanned pregnancies. I don't know what the complete answer is, but it seems to me that the legal (or illegal) status of abortion is only a very small part of the big picture. aldona Quote www.asrc.org.au (Asylum Seeker Resource Centre, Melbourne)Helping over 2000 refugees & asylum seekers each monthIMSLP/Petrucci Music LibraryThe Public Domain Music Score Library - Free Sheet Music DownloadsLooking for classical sheet music? Try IMSLP first! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tammy Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 There are two wonderful women very close to me who could have been happily aborted with the blessing of the Church as per Church policy regarding what justifies an abortion. These women are successful, happy and have beautiful families. They are also SDAs. Their mother chose to let her daughters live, but she lives in "sin" acording to Church policy and would not be allowed membership. As per published policy, the church would bless the death of her daughters should she have chosen to have the girls killed, but cannot abide her in life. Who is closer to Christ... a Church that would have blessed the killing of these girls, or a woman living in "sin?" who chose to make sure her babies lived and thrived? I agree with Stan that the Church cannot tell us what to think. I agree, Friend, the Church takes a totally wrong stand. I too, have a very good friend, her mother was raped, and she was conceived. Thank God, her mother made the right decision! And my friend has 4 children, the third one, they said would be born with severe health problems...and counseled her to abort the child. She wouldn't consider it! The baby is now 3 years old and has never had any problems...My friend is not an Adventist. I wouldn't even try to get her to consider becoming one, with the stand the Church takes on abortion. Quote When the character of Christ shall be perfectly reproduced in His people, then He will come to claim them as His own. {COL 69} The Narrow Way Ministires 5464 State Road Kingsville, OH 44048 choose_the_narrow_way@yahoo.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outta Here Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 Originally Posted By: Aubrey Wow. I am astounded of the things I've been reading regarding the Official Adventist recommended guidelines concerning abortion. I had NO idea what Adventists are supposed to believe. This just blows me away: http://www.adventist.org/beliefs/guidelines/main_guide1.html What exactly is it that blows you away? It doesn't look like anything earth shattering to me. Well, this for one, really bothers me: "Therefore, any attempts to coerce women either to remain pregnant or to terminate pregnancy should be rejected as infringements of personal freedom." The language "infringements of personal freedom" is insulting to prenatal life. When I read the guidelines I get the impression that ending prenatal life by choice is of little consequence. I get the impression that whatever the pregnant woman chooses is perfectly acceptable and that the church will embrace her decision whatever it may be. And yet, in the same church smoking is a terrible sin, as is drinking alcohol, eating pork, working on the Sabbath, and a multitude of other deemed inappropriate behaviors. There are actions that are far less evil (i.e., adultery, thievery), IMO, that will get a person excommunicated from the church. It is my opinion that the moral standards are a bit skewed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planey Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 Tammy, it is clear that you disagree with the the official church stand on abortion. It is always easy to say "That is wrong! I disagree!" but it is often harder to say what the "wrong" stand should be replaced with. Could you post a different set of standards which you believe we could use to replace the current unacceptable stance? I for one would like to see it. Graeme Quote Graeme____________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
True-believer Posted May 17, 2009 Author Share Posted May 17, 2009 Tammy, it is clear that you disagree with the the official church stand on abortion. It is always easy to say "That is wrong! I disagree!" but it is often harder to say what the "wrong" stand should be replaced with. Could you post a different set of standards which you believe we could use to replace the current unacceptable stance? I for one would like to see it. Graeme Abortion -------------- Or Euthanasia???? Abortion is clearly wrong!!! But euthanasia I think is alright because I don't want to see even my grandparents go through so much pain... it would be easier to pull the plug and let them die peacefully... What are your thoughts??? Quote Luke 4:19To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 Tammy, it is clear that you disagree with the the official church stand on abortion. It is always easy to say "That is wrong! I disagree!" but it is often harder to say what the "wrong" stand should be replaced with. Could you post a different set of standards which you believe we could use to replace the current unacceptable stance? I for one would like to see it. Graeme Good observation Graeme. I would also add that many times when people are this condemning of the church ... they themselves are not SDA. Tammy ... are you a Seventh day Adventist? Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 I hope, and not all are going to agree with me on this, BUT I HOPE the Church never tells us what to think. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derrell M Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 Since the conception of the institution of "church" the primary function of churches/religions has been to tell people what to think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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