Pro-Abortion still on the aganda!!!

[there buster]

Quote:

I reclaim the term 'potential'. Stop using it.

LOL. Why not "reclaim" the entire English language? That would certainly stop any opposition.

The rest of this is specifically NOT aimed at Bravus, because

1)he has declared himself a foe of abortion, and

2)the term "potential human" has been used by the pro-abortion folks for some time, quite independent of anyone on this forum.

The word "potential" is also a smokescreen, trying to turn a distinction into a difference.

For example, we have a term for a child less than a month old: a neonate. This term distinguishes a newborn and its specific needs, from older infants.

Does having this term make a neonate only a "potential human?" (To people like Peter Singer, it does--thus the slippery slope).

But when we examine the word "fetus" the manipulation of the term becomes evident. Any vertebrate goes through a 'fetal" stage. Thus, you can study the canine fetus, the bovine fetus, etc.

But no one says that a canine fetus is "potentailly a dog." It's not potentially anything else! It's not potentially a cow or a human. It's a dog in a very early stage of development.

Same with a human fetus--ooops! There it is. It's not just a fetus, it's human. It's not potentially human--it is human.

Is it potentially alive? No. That, too, is obvious. A human fetus is both human and alive. It's not potentially human--it's DNA is human. It's not potentially alive--it's really alive.

So in "terminating a pregnancy" we are terminating human life. It may be justifiable, it may not. But we should be honest about what is happening.

[bonnie]

I reclaim the term 'potential'. Stop using it.

You asked a question, I answered it, and was rewarded with a mouthful of sarcastic abuse even though I'd made it absolutely clear that my answer was not my opinion.

Well, I want my word back. Find your own.

No,I won't stop using it. Nor was anything you took as sarcastic aimed at you. You had already said you were strongly against abortion so it would not include you.

You were more than civil as to what you said and clear and I

apologize if it came across from me as sarcastic on a personal level.

It isn't even directed so much at those that abortion on demand should be legal .

It is those that cannot call it what it is and use the sanitized version that sounds so reasonable.

As in the man that killed his unborn child by beating his wife.

He was punished for what? Part of his sentnece was for assualt,the remainder for manslaughter. How can anyone commit the crime of manslaughter of a "potential"?

Had she been on her way to a clinic to terminate a potential it would not have been manslaughter.

Abortion on demand will be with us to the end I think,but let's at least call it what it is

[Jeannieb43]

Abstinence, on the other hand, does work. It has a 100% success rate.

Except for Sarah Palin's daughter.

When you give your teenagers only one option [abstinence] without any birth control education, you're likely to become a grandparent.

[Tom Wetmore]

Abstinence is a good idea. Ideas are intellectual. Ideas are rational. Sex is not. That's why the good idea fails.

Abstinence for moral reasons fairs only slightly better since moral reasoning is too often approached as an intellectual exercise

We are not biologically and psychologically programmed for abstinence. Abstinence is mental programming. That's why it fails.

[Jeannieb43]

True.

It takes self-control to follow one's mind rather than one's impulses.

[bonnie]

True.

It takes self-control to follow one's mind rather than one's impulses.

I thought self-control was something we taught our children from the beginning.

That we also tried to instill in our children the 'moral values" we as parents believed to be important.

[GreatLakesGramma]

But when we examine the word "fetus" the manipulation of the term becomes evident. Any vertebrate goes through a 'fetal" stage. Thus, you can study the canine fetus, the bovine fetus, etc.

In fact, it is called an embryo until it develops to the point of becoming recognizable for what kind of creature it is. So a human fetus even looks completely human.

[phkrause]

Good post buster.

pk

[Bravus]

Fair enough bonnie - my apologies. I mistook your intent.

Looks like I still need more time to chillax and calm down...

Just for clarity for everyone, I am a strong foe of abortion and I also consider that life begins at conception.

[bonnie]

Fair enough bonnie - my apologies. I mistook your intent.

Looks like I still need more time to chillax and calm down...

Just for clarity for everyone, I am a strong foe of abortion and I also consider that life begins at conception.

For those that are a strong foe of abortion I can understand that it is a gut wrenching,moral and spiritual decision on those

that have to make it. I personally could not so so when faced with that.

If and excuse me Bravus,I am only terminating a "potential" so what? I can pick a more convenient time in my life.

If I am on my way to an abortion clinic I am on my way to destroy my baby. No matter what words we use,that is what I would be doing

[GreatLakesGramma]

Waiting for a more convenient time doesn't always work. A friend of mine had an abortion while in college, before she was a Christian. Years later, after marrying, she longed to become a mother, but was never able to have children. Are young women not told that sterility is a possible side effect of abortion? Probably not, just like they hurry dying patients to the hospital so they can tell anyone who asks that they have never had a death at the clinic.

[bonnie]

Waiting for a more convenient time doesn't always work. A friend of mine had an abortion while in college, before she was a Christian. Years later, after marrying, she longed to become a mother, but was never able to have children. Are young women not told that sterility is a possible side effect of abortion? Probably not, just like they hurry dying patients to the hospital so they can tell anyone who asks that they have never had a death at the clinic.

With limited knowledge that has come from those that have done so

it doesn't appear that a lot of negative if any is explained.

Most seemed to focus on "their choice". Another sanitary phrase.

Their choice could be picking out a dress. It is not said "your choice is the termination of your baby"

Most things in life have rewards,whether good or bad. It doesn't have to involve just an unwanted pregnancy.

[Woody]

Good post buster.

pk

[Dr. Shane]

Originally Posted By: Shane

Abstinence, on the other hand, does work. It has a 100% success rate.

Except for Sarah Palin's daughter.

[Dr. Shane]

Abstinence is a good idea. Ideas are intellectual. Ideas are rational. Sex is not. That's why the good idea fails.

Didn't fail me. We have a thread in the political forum on this for those wanting to keep politics out of Townhall.

[Planey]

I am reading on this thread that since you can only get pregnant by sexual intercourse, then no pregnancy may be called "accidental". So if a married couple do not desire to increase their family, and take a number of reasonable steps to make pregnancy much less likely (the pill, prophylactics, creams, etc) and yet the wife still falls pregnant, this could not be called an accident?

That's like saying you cannot be involved in a road "accident" unless you get in a car and drive. So once you hop in that car and set off, you can no longer call any resultant incident an accident.

I believe telling a married couple the only way to avoid a pregnancy is by abstinence is like telling a driver the only way to avoid an accident is to not go anywhere.

If you have taken reasonable steps to greatly lower the chance of getting pregnant then a resulting conception could justifiably be called an "accident", in much the same way as if you are still involved in a collision in your car after driving carefully and defensively you say you have had an "accident"

Graeme

[GreatLakesGramma]

I agree Planey. Just because someone considers a pregnancy an accident doesn't mean they want to have an abortion, or would even consider it. Both of my granddaughters were accidents. Neither came at a time when my daughter and son in law were in a stable financial condition, and adding a child to the situation made things more difficult. But neither of them would ever have considered aborting either child. And they are devoted, loving parents.

[Dr. Shane]

The comparison falls apart. Car accidents are exactly that. They are accidents. Neither person involved intends on hitting the other or whatever was hit. A driving mistake or weather related issue came into play and caused the accident.

When two people have sex, the male injects sperm into a woman where an egg awaits fertilization. When pregnancy results that is not a mistake. It is like mixing dirt and water and getting mud. It is what is expected. Birth control methods are used to decrease the expectation of pregnancy but these methods do not eliminate this expectation completely. Whenever human sperm is injected into a fertile female, pregnancy is a realistic expectation. Stories of birth control methods failing are not that uncommon.

An accidental pregnancy can only be when a person that has been determined not to be fertile gets pregnant. I, for example, have had a vasectomy. I have also been tested and it has been determined that I have zero sperm in my seminal fluid. Thus if I were to impregnate my wife that would certainly be an accidental pregnancy.

Studies are showing that more and more unmarried people are engaging in other sexual options that do not lead to pregnancy. Oral sex and mutual masturbation among adolescents and college students has increased significantly since "I-did-not-have-sex-with-that-woman" Clinton brought the issue into the public conversation.

[Outta Here]

Even vasectomies are not 100% effective: recanalisation.

According to Harvard Medical School, "Vasectomy can reverse itself, but it is a very rare event. It develops in only about .025% or one in 4,000 vasectomies".2

Which means, that for every 100,000 vasectomies performed in a year, 25 of these will be "failed vasectomies" and a "potential" for "accidental" pregnancy. According to previous line of thought, it would not be an "accident" because it is possible.

[there buster]

The old Civil War myth about a man being shot, shall we say, "below the belt," and the bullet carrying his, er, "genetic material" into the abdomen of a woman and thus impregnating her, would have been accidental I think. However, Mythbusters pretty well disproved that.

But if two people engage in intercourse, no pregnancy that results can be considered accidental. The odds are almost always against impregnation (in humans; in animals the opposite is true). Such a pregnancy may be unintended, as many are, but it's not an accident.

[Dr. Shane]

Failed vasectomies normally occur within the first year after the vasectomy. Some doctors recommend a sperm count 30 days, six months and one year after the vasectomy. After getting the all-clear after a year it is extremely rare that the vasectomy fail. My brother-in-law never went back for a sperm count after his vasectomy and instead of getting the all-clear after a year his fourth child was born.

[John317]

Abortion is not right. No killing is right. God loves life because He is life. However, there is one thing God wants more than anything else, and that’s freedom of choice. Now we should ask the question: Which God wants us to have freedom to choose? The god who aborted precious babies during the flood? Who also aborted little ones when the first-born in Egypt was killed? How about Sodom and Gomorrah? No, it’s the Creator God who gives us freedom of choice, not the destroyer, “the god of this world (2 Cor. 4:4).” Now, if Jesus killed all those precious babies like those of the world believe, He would sanction abortion today! Right?

Don't you see the God of the Old Testament as the same God who inspired the New Testament, both the Gospels and the Epistles of Paul, etc.?

[Servant]

So, the Adventist church does not formally condemn abortion. And abortions are performed at many Adventist hospitals, which only serves to underscore ones impression that Adventist decision makers do not believe abortion is wrong.

When an Adventist couple is faced with an unplanned pregnancy, and they grapple with the decision to keep, or terminate, the pregnancy; the weighty decision is left solely between the parents and God (if they prefer privacy). And unguided study, especially during stressful times, is unreliable.

How many Adventist women, who have truly desired the right decision, have had an abortion?

[missionlady]

What is that statement Paul makes about everything being permissible, but not all things beneficial?

I believe in being able to choose. But most people that choose to MURDER go to jail, unless the victim of their murder is a helpless child (often that includes young children after birth).

We can choose, but we had better be aware of the possible consequences. When people "choose" to have sex (that's the pro-choice I'm in favor of) they had better be prepared for the possibility of bringing a child into the world.

I don't understand why more feminists are not concerned about the rights of female fetuses.

[olger]

There is good evidence that "Everything is permissable" is a quote from the letter that Corinth sent to Paul. The NIV (for one) recognizes this. Same with the "All things are lawful" dealio...

g