Robert Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 According to the Bible, God never defines someone by what they are tempted by, but only by what they actually do. ???? Say that you are kidding me, right? Matthew 5:21 "You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'Do not murder, and anyone who murders [something one does] will be subject to judgment.' 22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother [which is a thought] will be subject to judgment. The law requires your thoughts to be sinless: "The law penetrates to the thoughts and intents of the heart (mind)" [EGW] "It is evident that where a claim to sinlessness is made, there the law of God has not been written in the heart; for the commandments of God are exceeding broad, and are discerners of the thoughts and intents of the heart." [EGW] "The law of God is so brief that we can easily commit every precept to memory, and yet so far-reaching as to express the whole will of God, and to take cognizance, not only of the outward actions, but of the thoughts and intents, the desires and emotions, of the heart [mind]." [EGW] "Not even by a thought did He [Jesus] yield to temptation." [EGW] Take King David for example. He was overlooking the city from His palace and saw Bathsheba taking a bath. Immediately his self-centered nature said, "Wow, don't you just want and need that?" That's temptation...that's not sin, but David thought, "maybe!" That second he sinned, even though outwardly the act had not been carried out. BTW, David wouldn't have had these thoughts if he didn't have a nature that was "bent-to-self"! So the very fact you and I have a nature makes us sinners in the eyes of God's law because it requires that even our humanity must be perfect (i.e., holy flesh - a glorified sinless humanity). Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 I have spoken to several Adventist pastors about this, and they all agree with it, so I am assuming this is the official position of the Adventist church. So? Let's say I'm thirsty....I go in a convenience store and being a good little SDA I ask the clerk, "Do you have any 7-up?" She says, "No, I just have some ice cold beers." So my good old nature says to my mind, "No body knows you here, why not just one beer?" But, just as I'm about ready to give the clerk the money for the beer a church member drives up. So I say to the clerk, "Never mind". Have I sinned? Robmyster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 BTW, David wouldn't have had these thoughts if he didn't have a nature that was "bent-to-self"! So the very fact you and I have a nature makes us sinners in the eyes of God's law because it requires that even our humanity must be perfect (i.e., holy flesh - a glorified sinless humanity). 1 Cor 5:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood [our fallen humanity] cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. [Why not?]. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. Romans 7:20 Now if I do what I will not to do [i.e., if I make up my mind not to sin and do it anyway], it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. Mark 7:21 21 For from within, out of men's hearts [minds], come evil thoughts [not an act], sexual immorality [both thought and act], theft, murder, adultery, 22 greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. 23 All these evils come from inside and make a man 'unclean.'" Eph 2:3 All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were [by outward acts] objects of wrath. ? No, it doesn't say that. It says, by nature objects of wrath. So not only do our thoughts condemn us, but we stand condemned under law because we have natures that are bent-to-self. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatLakesGramma Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 No Robert, I am not kidding you. And I am also not disagreeing with you. You are absolutely correct to state that homosexuality comes from the sin nature. But when people ask whether being homosexual is sin or only homosexual activity is sin, it never seems to be in the context of corrupt nature, but in whether a homosexual is judged as unacceptable to God by virtue of their feelings, while the rest of us are judged by what we do. Our corrupt nature makes us all totally unacceptable to God, apart from his grace. The person with same gender attraction is no worse in God's eyes than any other variety of sinner. But when God points out a specific category of sinner by name (liar, thief, homosexual), He is referring to the outward manifestation of their sin nature, not the nature itself. Quote Catherine God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever. Psalm 73:26. "To be a Christian means to forgive the inexcusable, because God has forgiven the inexcusable in you." -- C. S. Lewis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 The person with same gender attraction is no worse in God's eyes than any other variety of sinner. But when God points out a specific category of sinner by name (liar, thief, homosexual), He is referring to the outward manifestation of their sin nature, not the nature itself. Okay.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 Whoops Quote: There are two subjects that I have asked not to be in townhall. Politics and religion, am tired of moving them. Locked some today will just delete in the future. _________________________ Stan The world headquarters for the www.adventistsecretservice.com has been relocated to www.adventistan.com Both RELIGON and POLITICS Double bad Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatLakesGramma Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 Redwood, this is not a political discussion or a theological discussion. It just happens to have some aspects related to both, but that is not its primary reason for being here. If the rule against theological or political discussions in townhall were meant to be applied to a discussion like this, then very few decent discussions could ever be allowed to remain in townhall after they have gone on for any length of time. Quote Catherine God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever. Psalm 73:26. "To be a Christian means to forgive the inexcusable, because God has forgiven the inexcusable in you." -- C. S. Lewis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 I guess we will just have to concede that it just may be in the eye of the beholder. And there may be times that some will get it wrong in the eyes of another. Perhaps a little grace will be needed along with a more percise definition so that all can know and not get their feelings hurt when they make a mistake. ??? Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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