Two Interesting Links

[phkrause]

This is what Rabbi Yisroel Weiss thinks about what's going on in Israel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RjnvQHWyLE&feature=PlayList&p=DD08DE8DC60C9D42&index=0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9OIqy6md...=PL&index=4

[carolaa]

Thanks for sharing those. I wasn't aware of that group. Very interesting. That would be one way to get peace in the region.

[bonnie]

Thanks for sharing those. I wasn't aware of that group. Very interesting. That would be one way to get peace in the region.

The Israeli's probably don't care much what this group says.

It is generally thought that Israel is about 80% secular. There are articles on the secular being religiously coerced in one way or another by the religious 20 percent.

There can never be lasting peace in the region.

[there buster]

"There will never be peace in the Middle East until Arabs love their own children more than they hate the Israelis."

Golda Meir

[bonnie]

"There will never be peace in the Middle East until Arabs love their own children more than they hate the Israelis."

Golda Meir

That is unlikely to happen. I am waiting to see if there are any links coming by prominent Muslims with the same tone.

[carolaa]

Interesting, I've never seen that kind of quote from a Palestinian. Sounds pretty belligerent to me.

[there buster]

Quote:

I've never seen that kind of quote from a Palestinian. Sounds pretty belligerent to me.

Really? How's this for a statement?

In case its' not obvious, that's a suicide vest this child is wearing.

Does that qualify as belligerent?

[bonnie]

Quote:

I've never seen that kind of quote from a Palestinian. Sounds pretty belligerent to me.

Really? How's this for a statement?

In case its' not obvious, that's a suicide vest this child is wearing.

Does that qualify as belligerent?

How could any mother do that or allow that to be done to a innocent beautiful little child?

All the noise about culture is just that. Mothers universally go thru the 9 months of carrying a little one and count the sometimes very painful labor to bring them into the world without complaint. Only twisted hate could induce a mother to do that to her child.

[there buster]

"There will never be peace in the Middle East until Arabs love their own children more than they hate the Israelis."

Golda Meir

And here's the evidence:

[phkrause]

One of the truest statements ever said, and the saddest at the same time.

pk

[bonnie]

Maybe this is where these words may apply........

It is sinful, illegal and morally wrong to use an innocent child in that way

Argue about the morality of what the Israeli's do, but say that, clearly and unequivocally. Or you have no moral standing.

[carolaa]

How do you know it was a mother who did that?

[bonnie]

How do you know it was a mother who did that?

I don't,but most children that age are under the mother's care.

Regardless if this were mother,father,brother or lunatic

Unless you can say.....

It is sinful, illegal and morally wrong to use an innocent child in that way

Argue about the morality of what the Israeli's do, but say that, clearly and unequivocally. Or you have no moral standing.

[Bravus]

It's most likely a fake suicide vest as part of a protest, but nonetheless:

It is sinful, illegal and morally wrong for anyone to place a suicide vest on a child.

[carolaa]

I agree, and I've never insinuated otherwise.

[bonnie]

It's most likely a fake suicide vest as part of a protest, but nonetheless:

It is sinful, illegal and morally wrong for anyone to place a suicide vest on a child.

How do the rules work in this.Israeli is responsible for the situation with the Palestinians.It was suggested that a couple of desperate suicide bombers could not be compared with Israeli actions. Of course most do know it is far more than a couple and we do know they use young people.

The picture is most likely a fake only part of a protest.

Bravus you did manage to say it but don't seem to be able to with out a qualifier

[carolaa]

Originally Posted By: carolaa

How do you know it was a mother who did that?

I don't,but most children that age are under the mother's care.

Mothers in some Muslim countries have very little say in how their children are raised, aside from taking care of their basic needs.

[bonnie]

I agree, and I've never insinuated otherwise.

No you actually indicated nothing,thereby avoiding a strong condemnation of something completely barbaric and based on twisted hate.

[bonnie]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_suicide_bombers_in_the_Israeli-Palestinian_conflict

It does not get much more vile than this. Such a fun loving innocent group.Taking a mentally handicapped teenager and having him blow himself to bits in hopes of killing others

Call this whatever you like but this is one of the sickest statements I have read by a mother. This is not isolated,not unusual. Somehow this muslim mother does not give me the warm fuzzies. What a sick human being

Umm Nidal, who sent three of her sons, including one 17 year old, on suicide attacks, said "I love my children, but as Muslims we pressure ourselves and sacrifice our emotions for the interest of the homeland. The greater interest takes precedence to the personal interest." She was later elected to the Palestinian legislature on the Hamas ticket.[10] According to Human Rights Watch,

According to the Palestinian Human Rights Monitoring Group, in the al-Aqsa Intifada, Palestinian military folk have used children as "messengers and couriers, and in some cases as fighters and suicide bombers in attacks on Israeli soldiers and civilians." Fatah, Hamas, Islamic Jihad and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) have all been implicated in involving children in this way, see Convention on the Rights of the Child. The issue was first brought to world attention after a widely televised incident in which a mentally handicapped Palestinian teenager, Hussam Abdo, was disarmed at an Israeli checkpoint.[6] The youngest Palestinian suicide bomber who blew himself up was Issa Bdeir, a 16-year-old high school student from the village of Al Doha. He blew himself up in a park in Rishon LeZion, killing a teenage boy and an elderly man.

Human rights organizations such as Amnesty International has strongly and repeatedly condemned violence against civilians:

Palestinian armed groups have repeatedly shown total disregard for the most fundamental human rights, notably the right to life, by deliberately targeting Israeli civilians and by using Palestinian children in armed attacks. Children are susceptible to recruitment by manipulation or may be driven to join armed groups for a variety of reasons, including a desire to avenge relatives or friends killed by the Israeli army.[7]

Despite the harsh condemnations and internal controversy, Palestinian militant groups such as Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades and Islamic Jihad, have used children as militants and suicide bombers.

[edit] Indoctrinating children

According to emeritus professor of psychiatry at the University of Virginia School of Medicine Vamik Volkan,

Most suicide bombers in the Middle East are chosen as teenagers, “educated,” and then sent off to perform their duty when they are in their late teens or early to mid-twenties. The "education" is most effective when religious elements of the large-group identity are provided as solutions for the personal sense of helplessness, shame, and humiliation. Replacing borrowed elements sanctioned by God for one’s internal world makes that person omnipotent and supports the individual’s narcissism. I found that there was little difficulty in finding young men interested in becoming suicide bombers in Gaza and the West Bank. Repeated actual and expected events humiliate youngsters and interfere with their adaptive identifications with their parents because their parents are humiliated as well. [8]

Volkan gives the examples of beatings, torture, or the loss of a parent as typical humiliating events which might make a young person more susceptible to recruitment for suicide terrorism.

Once recruited, children and teenagers are encouraged to cut off contact with "real world" affairs and subjected to an intense program of memorization and repetition of the Qur'an based more on sound than on meaning.

The typical technique of creating Middle Eastern Muslim suicide bombers includes two basic steps: first, the "teachers" find young people whose personal identity is already disturbed and who are seeking an outer "element" to internalize so they can stabilize their internal world. Second, they develop a "teaching method" that "forces" the large-group identity, ethnic and/or religious, into the "cracks" of the person’s damaged or subjugated individual identity. Once people become candidates to be suicide bombers, the routine rules and regulations, so to speak, or individual psychology does not fully apply to their patterns of thought and action.[8]

Anne Speckhard, adjunct associate Professor of Psychiatry, Georgetown University Medical Center and Professor of Psychology, Vesalius College, Free University of Brussels, writes:

In the Palestinian territories, there currently exists a "cult of martyrdom". From a very young age children are socialized into a group consciousness that honors "martyrs", including human bombers who have given their lives for the fight against what is perceived by Palestinians to be the unjust occupation of their lands. Young children are told stories of "martyrs". Many young people wear necklaces venerating particular "martyrs", posters decorate the walls of towns and rock and music videos extol the virtues of bombers. Each act of suicide terrorism is also marked by a last testament and video, which are prepared ahead of time by the "martyr" who can later reach great popularity when the video is played on television. Despite the very deep and real grief of the family and friends left behind, the funerals of “martyrs” are generally accompanied with much fanfare by community and sponsoring organization. Often, the effect of this is confusing to outsiders as it can disrupt, delay and even circumvent the family’s ability to focus on its grief over the loss of a family member and it may even support the family in claiming to outsiders joy over the loss of its loved one. This "cult of martyrdom", which has a strong underpinning in longstanding cultural roots (the honoring of martyrs), appears to have developed principally over the last decade, as the first act of suicide terrorism occurred in Israel only twelve years ago."[9]

Umm Nidal, who sent three of her sons, including one 17 year old, on suicide attacks, said "I love my children, but as Muslims we pressure ourselves and sacrifice our emotions for the interest of the homeland. The greater interest takes precedence to the personal interest." She was later elected to the Palestinian legislature on the Hamas ticket.[10] According to Human Rights Watch,

Major Palestinian armed groups, including Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, Islamic Jihad, and Hamas, have publicly disavowed the use of children in military operations, but those stated policies have not always been implemented. Some leaders, including representatives of Islamic Jihad and Hamas, have said that they consider children of 16 to be adults. International law defines a child as any person under the age of eighteen. [...] Israeli government policy in the Occupied Territories defines Palestinians under the age of 16 as minors while Israeli children in the same territories are considered minors until they reach the age of 18.[11]

[Bravus]

I don't think what I said about that particular photo being of a fake vest was a qualifier of my moral statement about the action of using real suicide vests on real children. But if it makes you happy I will withdraw the first sentence and leave the second to stand.

[bonnie]

I don't think what I said about that particular photo being of a fake vest was a qualifier of my moral statement about the action of using real suicide vests on real children. But if it makes you happy I will withdraw the first sentence and leave the second to stand.

Thank you. Maybe it is my upbringing but if something is wrong it is wrong and should stand on it's own

[Planey]

Quote:

Two Interesting Links

I was thinking "You beaut! A thread about a couple of Scottish golf courses!"

I was wrong of course but I reckon had I been right the ensuing thread would have been a lot more pleasant reading.

Graeme

[fccool]

"There will never be peace in the Middle East until Arabs love their own children more than they hate the Israelis."

Golda Meir

And here's the evidence:

Of course you'll never post these:

I could do exactly the same things you are trying to do here:

[fccool]

PS. What's interesting about propaganda, is that the same sentence is repeated verbatim from different people without even realizing what they are saying.

[bonnie]

PS. What's interesting about propaganda, is that the same sentence is repeated verbatim from different people without even realizing what they are saying.

Unless these photos are from a Israeli suicide bomber,namely a child or young person why post them?

Perhaps these are photos of the damage done by the three young suicide bombers that the Palestinian was more than willing to sacrifice. Or are these photo's from a Israeli suicide bomber?

Many die,innocent children and civilians in many attacks in war. They are not singled out,there is not a wish or effort to kill civilians .

Or maybe you could give information as to this being an unprovoked attack by Israel deliberately targeting children