Two Interesting Links

[Tom Wetmore]

PS. What's interesting about propaganda, is that the same sentence is repeated verbatim from different people without even realizing what they are saying.

Yes, it is a mind virus, a meme...

[phkrause]

The only problem with that is, we can exchange images back and forth for awhile until you run out of images, but for what purpose? It wont settle the problem in the middle east. All we can do is ask God to be with his people there. And when I say people I mean the Arabs as well as the Jews.

pk

[bonnie]

Originally Posted By: fccool

PS. What's interesting about propaganda, is that the same sentence is repeated verbatim from different people without even realizing what they are saying.

Yes, it is a mind virus, a meme...

No Tom,it is not a mind virus. It is telling when you speak of virus's that you cannot understand a distinction between two warring countries that will cause the death of civilians without targeting civilians,Innocent children die in every war as well as innocent civilians. It is a frightening mind that can accept such human sacrifice and see it as not as bad or no different than the sad reality of war, Any war has civilian loss of life. Not all wars use innocent young people as human bombs,blowing themselves to bits so they can kill other innocent people

The terrorists leaders are cowards grooming young people to deliberately target innocent children and civilians.

There is no country,no people that have ever benefited from placing their country and welfare in the hands of barbaric cowards.Nothing heroic about a mother that is proud of the three young sons she was willing to sacrifice for these cowardly terrorists. A mother that does this is no mother,she simply was the incubator to produce a live killing machine taking out innocents.

The animal kingdom is above this. From time to time they will shove one young out of the nest,kill it and even eat it's remains. All instinctive as they know a baby that cannot make it or may attract predators to the rest.

Any human being that will sacrifice their children in this way is operating beneath the level of the animal kingdom.

There is no negotiating with terrorists without sacrificing what Israel or anyone can ill afford to sacrifice. You bring them down or you decide you can live with and accept their barbaric actions. As Iran has, these terrorists have made it clear they do not want peace. What they accept as peace is the complete destruction of Israel.

I guess I prefer to be seen as having a virus rather than complacently accepting mothers and fathers offering their children as a sacrifice as long as successful in killing innocents,their children included.

[Tom Wetmore]

You have absolutely no idea what I was talking about, do you?!?!

[bonnie]

You have absolutely no idea what I was talking about, do you?!?!

Yes Tom,altho it may be a surprise to you but I am aware of what

meme is.

I still stand by what I said.

[there buster]

fcool

apparently you miss the point.

"There will be no peace in the Middle East until the Arabs love their own children more than they hate the Israelis."

Then I posted a picture of a very young child dressed (by his parents) in a suicide vest (whether it was fake or not is immaterial).

I could find many links of Arab parents celebrating their own children's suicide bombings. That's a person who hates something else more than they love their own child.

To publish pictures of children injured in attacks by others is irrelevant to the point. The point is that Muslim terrorists intentionally target Israeli civilians, and intentionally hide among their own civilians in order to help produce such grisly results.

Israelis and Americans try to shield civilians of all parties; Muslim terrorists intentionally endanger their own, and target others.

Intentions make a moral difference.

[Bravus]

There's a famous road that's paved with them

[there buster]

Quote:

There's a famous road that's paved with them

NOw there's a misdirection. I said, "Intentions make a moral difference."

The road you're speaking of is paved with good intentions.

When you do that I don't know if you really can't tell the difference, or just being cynical.

Every law code in the world makes a difference between premeditated, intentional murder, and unintentional (at worst) manslaughter, and of course, self-defense.

The Bible makes the same distinction.

The only ones who don't these days are leftists trying to peddle moral equivalence of things which are not at all equivocal.

[Tom Wetmore]

Yes Tom,altho it may be a surprise to you but I am aware of what

meme is.

I still stand by what I said.

I wasn't questioning your familiarity with memetics. It wasn't a knowledge or vocabulary test. It was about not getting what part of the conversation I was responding to. You still appear to have no idea what I was characterizing as a meme.

Your long ranting post impressed me that you totally missed the object of my simply broad point that had little to do with the debate at hand. I was merely reacting to and agreeing with fccool's statement about propaganda. Fccool's post said about propaganda "that the same sentence is repeated verbatim from different people without even realizing what they are saying." That simply struck me as functionally a meme.

And the "mind virus" reference was an allusion to a new book about memetics by Richard Brodie Virus of the Mind: The New Science of the Meme.

I have no idea why that set you off or why you felt a need to go after me for essentially a simple point of agreement with fccool. I wasn't talking to you or about anything you had said.

Tom

[bonnie]

Quote:

fccool's statement about propaganda. Fccool's post said about propaganda "that the same sentence is repeated verbatim from different people without even realizing what they are saying." That simply struck me as functionally a meme.

I have no idea why that set you off or why you felt a need to go after me for essentially a simple point of agreement with fccool. I wasn't talking to you or about anything you had said.

Tom

What foccol said about propaganda had nothing to do with what had been posted.

"There Buster" had posted a picture showing a innocent little boy dressed in a suicide vest. The Israeli's didn't put it on him,his parents or another twisted human being did.

The Israeli's that are so despised do not treat their children that way.

Only the Palestinian's that want peace sacrifice their children to terrorists organizations.Being blown to bits,preying on the vulnerable and grooming them,just as any predator does.

foccol and his "propaganda" remarks are just plain bull. There is no same sentence here being repeated from different people.

Whether you support anything the Israeli's do is beside the point. Civilians and children are unintentional victims of any war.

Innocent children and young people being used for the depraved,barbaric,animalistic,evil terrorists use, The slaughter Palestinian's provide their children for are no different than animals.

Posting the effects of military attacks in war are not similar. It is not the same remarks being repeated by different people.

"that the same sentence is repeated verbatim from different people without even realizing what they are saying

BULL

[bonnie]

Still no clue......listen....think...then engage.

Maybe there is a time to take your own counsel to heart.

To use the words of Bravus a little "misdirection" going on.

Foccol has come out is strong defense of Palestinians without really being able to defend other than generally.Foccol has also stated the number of suicide bombers involved only a couple of desperate people that had nothing. It began with a post with two links "trying to prove the Israeli's" did not have Jewish religious support. It's also been said that very few of Israeli's are Jews as if that has some significence. The nation of Israel is fighting for the nation of Israel. Anyone that is a citizen of Israel is a Israeli.

"there buster" posted a photo showing the Palestinians in what they accept as normal in fighting a war and a quote by Golda Meir is ignored.

Using a small toddler to show support for their own evil,twisted,barbaric methods.

The defense or acceptance of terrorism has become fashionable,among SDA's as well. Iran and the leadership of Palestine{Hamas) have plainly stated what they want from Israel is to cease to exist.

As usual,rather than responding to what was posted, it became what the Israeli's had done to the Palestinian children and called the other posts propaganda,rather than addressing what was posted. Tom has done the same thing.

[Tom Wetmore]

...What foccol said about propaganda had nothing to do with what had been posted...

Then why in blazes do you feel such a hot-headed burden to try and make it about what had been posted?!?!

I read fccool's statement to be a general observation about propaganda, applicable to any propaganda from any side of the story - and I responded accordingly, to fccool's statement only.

I feel like I got caught in the cross-fire of your war of words and that you now want to draw me into your fight. I am collateral damage in a battle in which I had not joined or even expressed sympathy for, or opposition to, either side. I just happened to stumble into your battle zone and make a simple observation about someone else's observation. Sort of like all the innocent civilians we call "collateral damage"...

For crying out loud!! Stop! Take a deep breath... Count to 100... Give it a rest and let it go!

Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill...

[fccool]

fcool

apparently you miss the point.

"There will be no peace in the Middle East until the Arabs love their own children more than they hate the Israelis."

Then I posted a picture of a very young child dressed (by his parents) in a suicide vest (whether it was fake or not is immaterial).

I could find many links of Arab parents celebrating their own children's suicide bombings. That's a person who hates something else more than they love their own child.

To publish pictures of children injured in attacks by others is irrelevant to the point. The point is that Muslim terrorists intentionally target Israeli civilians, and intentionally hide among their own civilians in order to help produce such grisly results.

Israelis and Americans try to shield civilians of all parties; Muslim terrorists intentionally endanger their own, and target others.

Intentions make a moral difference.

I think you've missed my point. There's much talk about Arabs not loving their children. What strikes me is:

1) The irrational reasoning that Arabs really don't love their children, which I put these pictures to show you that Arabs really grieve over their children like any farther would.

2) You selectively using images of a kid dressed up in radical outfit (with a plastic gun) to somehow support your point.

Just a couple facts for you:

- 60% of population of Palestine are younger than 19.

- 50% of Palestinian children are anemic due to nutrition deficiency

- in Gaza, poverty rate rose to 85%

I don't think these kind of conditions would breed happy people, especially considering that much of these conditions are due to the and economic blockade.

Now, back to Arabs not loving their children. In 1933 Stalin starved Ukrainian population to death... 6-8 million. This fact in history remains relatively unheard.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor

You will hear stories of rampant cannibalism. The point is, when human conditions worsen, people become VERY desperate. And I don't think it's your place to judge who loves and who does not love in a situation of extreme hopelessness and desperation. I wonder what you'd do being in their shoes?

So, please, be reasonable when regurgitating pictures and quotes. Treating people like animals might just cause them to bite and growl.

[bonnie]

Quote:

Then why in blazes do you feel such a hot-headed burden to try and make it about what had been posted?!?!

I read fccool's statement to be a general observation about propaganda, applicable to any propaganda from any side of the story - and I responded accordingly, to fccool's statement only.

I am aware of that. foccol wanted to indicate that the use of suicide bombers was itself propaganda or he would not have immediately responded to "there buster's" as he did.

Trying to indicate that the use of suicide bombers was somehow the same as innocents not deliberately targeted but were injured or killed. Palestinians deliberately use without regard to the lives of young people that are vulnerable to their propaganda

Quote:

I feel like I got caught in the cross-fire of your war of words and that you now want to draw me into your fight. I am collateral damage in a battle in which I had not joined or even expressed sympathy for, or opposition to, either side. I just happened to stumble into your battle zone and make a simple observation about someone else's observation. Sort of like all the innocent civilians we call "collateral damage"...

For crying out loud!! Stop! Take a deep breath... Count to 100... Give it a rest and let it go!

Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill...

You joined in the conversation. You didn't just happen to stumble,you had an interest in the topic and willingly participated as is your right.

Stopped took a deep breath,counted to a 100 and still feel the same.

Using the word propaganda in any connections to suicide bombers is nothing but a diversion.

You really need to quit rolling your eyes like that,you might end up permanently crosseyed

[bonnie]

Quote:

I think you've missed my point. There's much talk about Arabs not loving their children. What strikes me is:

1) The irrational reasoning that Arabs really don't love their children, which I put these pictures to show you that Arabs really grieve over their children like any farther would.

2) You selectively using images of a kid dressed up in radical outfit (with a plastic gun) to somehow support your point.

Palestine has accepted the leadership of terrorists. Their leadership is little different than a mad dog.

There is on this topic a report by a mother that is proud of the fact that she raised three that gave their lives as suidice bombers. That is no mother,that is not a mother that loves her children more than she hates the Israeli's.

As you selectively used the phrase that there had only a couple of suicide bombers,desperately young men ,a picture was posted to show the mind set of murderous thugs.

Quote:

Just a couple facts for you:

- 60% of population of Palestine are younger than 19.

- 50% of Palestinian children are anemic due to nutrition deficiency

- in Gaza, poverty rate rose to 85%

I don't think these kind of conditions would breed happy people, especially considering that much of these conditions are due to the and economic blockade.

Perhaps it is time for the palestinian to look to who controls their government and place the blame where it belongs.

Governed by thugs that care little for the citizens of Palestine.

The economic conditions are no different than that of other countries governed by barbarians.Extreme poverty,disease,no employment. They need to be kept that way or the terrorists would lose their grip.

A country that is productive and improving lives for their citizens,never has a thug at the controls.

They seem to be glad for Hamas,let them have him.

Quote:

Now, back to Arabs not loving their children. In 1933 Stalin starved Ukrainian population to death... 6-8 million. This fact in history remains relatively unheard.

What does that have to do with a terrorist controlled country warring with a free country.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor

Quote:

You will hear stories of rampant cannibalism. The point is, when human conditions worsen, people become VERY desperate. And I don't think it's your place to judge who loves and who does not love in a situation of extreme hopelessness and desperation. I wonder what you'd do being in their shoes?

So, please, be reasonable when regurgitating pictures and quotes. Treating people like animals might just cause them to bite and growl.

The lives of the palestinians will worsen. At the controls are people that do not care. They want power,they want to kill those they hate. They will without reservation use those they can to become sacrifices for their extreme hatred.

The Israeli's or the US is not responsible for the conditions that could in part be quickly relieved by a government concerned for the welfare of their country.

Treating people like animals might just cause them to bite and growl.

As for judging who loves their children and who doesn't, Go back and read the proud mother that provided her sons for human bombs.

[there buster]

Quote:

1) The irrational reasoning that Arabs really don't love their children, which I put these pictures to show you that Arabs really grieve over their children like any farther would.

I leave it to you to explain the rationality of loving your children by encouraging them to commit suicide.

Quote:

2) You selectively using images of a kid dressed up in radical outfit (with a plastic gun) to somehow support your point.

Yeah, it's really hard to figure out why I would use a picture of a toddler dressed in a suicide vest to indicate that the parent may not love the child in any way we can relate to. Tough one, that.

Quote:

Just a couple facts for you:

- 60% of population of Palestine are younger than 19.

- 50% of Palestinian children are anemic due to nutrition deficiency

- in Gaza, poverty rate rose to 85%

I don't think these kind of conditions would breed happy people, especially considering that much of these conditions are due to the and economic blockade.

Well, let's see. Many countries,including the US, provide billions of dollars to the Palestinians, who then spend it on weapons (because they don't manufacture any) and bombs, and, oh yeah, suicide vests, INSTEAD of hospitals, schools, developing their own industry.

They never have enough money to pick up the garbage, but they always have enough money to buy rockets and bombs to kill Israelis.

And they teach hate in their schools. Maybe, just maybe, I know this will seem strange to you, maybe the Palestinians have some responsibility for not "breeding happy people."

Quote:

Now, back to Arabs not loving their children. In 1933 Stalin starved Ukrainian population to death... 6-8 million. This fact in history remains relatively unheard.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor

Actually, it's quite well known. Sadly, it to the left several decades to admit that even happened.

Quote:

You will hear stories of rampant cannibalism. The point is, when human conditions worsen, people become VERY desperate.

You'll find similar stories in the Bible. This concept may be news only to you.

Desperation does not cause people to do evil; it only reveals the evil that is already there.

Quote:

And I don't think it's your place to judge who loves and who does not love in a situation of extreme hopelessness and desperation. I wonder what you'd do being in their shoes?

In most higher life forms, the parents sacrifice themselves for their children, not the other way around.

Quote:

So, please, be reasonable when regurgitating pictures and quotes. Treating people like animals might just cause them to bite and growl.

It's you who regard people as animals, bereft of moral sensibility.

Perhaps you'd like to lecture us on how the worshipers of Molech, who burned their children alive, really loved them? Funny, God missed that part. Perhaps you'd better inform Him as well.

Next thing you know, we'll hear how the Nazis loved the Jews. After all, who is anyone to say any different?

[fccool]

You are taking actions of extremists and applying them to the entire nation of people who are caged in and maltreated, and still behaving quite well trying to survive.

See, I've heard your side of the story from most of the news outlets in the US... and I can see that something very big missing. A big piece in the puzzle. People don't kill other for no reason. Even Arabs don't do it for no particular reason.

Muslims (Arabs), Jews and Christians coexisted peacefully in the land of Palestine prior to conflict. Ask yourself, what changed? Do a little research on movement of Zionism.

Some Nazis loved Jews, some worshipers of Moloch loved sacrificed their children, but they have been caught up in a system that pushed them to do things they thought was right. I don't consider people animals, and I certainly would not think that anyone is void of love.

There were plenty of mothers around the world who let their underage children fight for their countries and die in countless wars. But they thought it was a right thing to do, and every one of them, no matter which side, thought that they are doing world a favor by sacrificing their children to war. You see many cases throughout the history... when you look at Viet Nam war for example.

[fccool]

So, when you look at it from the eyes of the Western World, as you browse the high speed internet from the comfort of your dwelling... you think that things are clear cut black and white. One side is clearly wrong, the other one is clearly right.

I've spoken to some of my military friends who wholeheartedly believe that God has a special interest in occupants of today's political Israel, and we should side with them no matter what.

But, other know the reality of war, and understand the living conditions. They understand WHY, because they ASKED WHY?

Your answer to WHY - Arabs are inherently evil?

My answer to WHY - HATE BREEDS HATE.

[bonnie]

So, when you look at it from the eyes of the Western World, as you browse the high speed internet from the comfort of your dwelling... you think that things are clear cut black and white. One side is clearly wrong, the other one is clearly right.

I've spoken to some of my military friends who wholeheartedly believe that God has a special interest in occupants of today's political Israel, and we should side with them no matter what.

But, other know the reality of war, and understand the living conditions. They understand WHY, because they ASKED WHY?

Your answer to WHY - Arabs are inherently evil?

My answer to WHY - HATE BREEDS HATE.

Wonder what it is like to live in an Ivory tower far above reality.

Let's give more aid,it is a nice way to fund the terrorist leadership of Palestine. If it does not reach and lift Palestinians out of squalor let's give some more. Never mind that it is not used in a responsible manner,just feel good about telling others to give more.

Dismiss the valid concerns of Israel in negotiating and trusting terrorists that have expressly stated they want Israel wiped on the face of the map.

Tell me what responsibility the palestinians have for living conditions in their country? They elected terrorists to rule. Their terrorists leaders couldn't care less as to their welfare.

As you think suicide bombers are poor and desperate you should look it up.

The profile of your typical suicide bomber is anything but and the numbers far exceed the couple you referred to.

They are educated and middle/upper class and beyond.

Maybe it is high time to put those resources to work for the palestinians instead of a career choice of blowing themselves and others to bits.

A parent that is willing to sacrifice their child/children for a bunch of murderous thugs have ceased to love their children. Instead they have given themselves over to just plain good old fashioned evil

[there buster]

I can't tell if your moral confusion arises from your generally muddled reasoning, or whether your reasoning suffers from a lack of moral underpinnings.

Anyone who thinks the Palestinians are "caged" needs a dictionary. Anyone who thinks they are "behaving quite well" either suffers from moral inversion or lack of information.

Quote:

Muslims (Arabs), Jews and Christians coexisted peacefully in the land of Palestine prior to conflict.

Then why can't Muslims co-exist peacefully with each other in Gaza? Your argument is self-refuting.

Quote:

I don't consider people animals, and I certainly would not think that anyone is void of love.

This is a delusion of your own invention. The original quote did not say anything about absence of love for their, only that it was less than their hatred of someone else.

Quote:

There were plenty of mothers around the world who let their underage children fight for their countries and die in countless wars. But they thought it was a right thing to do, and every one of them, no matter which side, thought that they are doing world a favor by sacrificing their children to war.

This continual confusion of one thing with another is tiring. IF you cannot detect a number of significant differences between a mother allowing her adult child (for millennia, anyone over 12 was an adult, you could look it up) to be part of the military, and a mother placing an infant on a red-hot metal idol to be immolated, then discussion alone will not help.

[there buster]

Quote:

But, other know the reality of war, and understand the living conditions. They understand WHY, because they ASKED WHY?

Your answer to WHY - Arabs are inherently evil?

My answer to WHY - HATE BREEDS HATE.

Do not presume to answer for me. You haven't a clue.

[fccool]

That's why a question mark is there... I just want to know what do you think the answer to that question is.

[Ted Oplinger]

fccool,

My apologies in advance if this unnecessarily steps on tender toes, yet I cannot abide the misinformation that gets pedalled under the guise of love and sympathy...

Quote:

Just a couple facts for you:

- 60% of population of Palestine are younger than 19.

- 50% of Palestinian children are anemic due to nutrition deficiency

- in Gaza, poverty rate rose to 85%

I don't think these kind of conditions would breed happy people, especially considering that much of these conditions are due to the and economic blockade.

And to which Palestinians would these stats apply to? Those peacefully living under the Israeli government? Or those under the wonderful auspices of the Palestinian authority?

Yes, In Gaza, the poverty rate rose to 85%. Why? Because the prosperity that used to be there for the Palestinians under Israeli governance vanished when the Israelis were pressured to get out of Gaza "for the sake of the Palestinians". The result? The Palestinian leaders promptly removed the wealth-creating jobs and conditions to create the kind of poverty that fuels their terrorism plans. No amount of anyone's "caring and giving" is going to alleviate that, because it does not serve the purpose of vilifying and eliminating Israel.

It's not due to a concerted economic blockade. Those blockades you see in the newsreels are to keep terrorist attacks out. Or does Israel have no right to defend themselves? It is all about the Arab agenda. Nothing else.

Palestinians enjoy prosperity, success, and inclusion in the local and national government offices in Israel. They can own property, vote, run for office, receive government benefits, own a business - all without fear of reprisal because their Muslims. How many Jews and Christians (let alone Palestinians) enjoy that anywhere else in the Arab world?

In 1948, the Palestinian people rejected the same two-state plan being proposed today, for the sole reason because their religion says that land is Muslim land, and cannot be shared by anyone! No one is allowed to make any kind of historical claim on Muslim land after Muslims take it over, no matter how ancient. There is no negotiation for respect of claims...only a biding of time to remove any infidels/non-Muslims from the land.

To add insult to injury, Israel treats Arabs far, far better than Arabs treat their own, and Israel is very successful in their economy without the need for oil reserves. Both points only fuel Arab hatred toward Israel, and by extension, America.

Until people realize that 1) the Arab world is maintaining a vested interest in keeping the Palestinian people poor, wretched, and miserable, all the while piously harping how bad they have it; 2) this is a mindset completely foreign to the Judeo-Christian/Western mindset, 3) people can mindlessly hate you for the sole reason that you exist (regardless of how much goodwill you extend to them), and 4) the Muslim nations have this kind of hatred for both Israel and America...

...there will be no real resolving the Palestinian/Middle East issues at all, short of a catastrophic war which is convincingly won by one side or the other...or the conversion of America's energy grid to nuclear/coal/natural gas usage, which would economically deplete the treasuries used by the terrorist networks.

Even Obama's selling out of Israel won't change that.

Quote:

Now, back to Arabs not loving their children. In 1933 Stalin starved Ukrainian population to death... 6-8 million. This fact in history remains relatively unheard.

This fact is quite widely known in my circles. The US MSM refuses to publish it loudly, but it's easily known from the Internet.

That Stalin (a tyrannical communist dictator) would subject his people to this all the while crowing about the Proletariat's sacrifice is quite analogous to what I said earlier - the Arab dictators crow piously about how bad the Palestinians have it, yet purposely keep them in squalor. Same mindset. We can't deal with the Palestinian people issues until that mindset which rules over them is removed.

Quote:

And I don't think it's your place to judge who loves and who does not love in a situation of extreme hopelessness and desperation.

But I will pass judgment upon those systems and people who purposefully keep the Palestinians in such desparate conditions, solely to push a genocidal agenda of hatred against a country that would rather just be left alone....just like Stalin starve millions of his own people just to promote a communist advance across the world. I despise them, and indeed pity them, for there's nothing in Christ's teachings and commandments that says I must love with approval and approbation those things that are not of God.

This subject treads real close to politics, so I won't say much more, for it is politics that keeps the status quo in effect.

[carolaa]

And to which Palestinians would these stats apply to? Those peacefully living under the Israeli government? Or those under the wonderful auspices of the Palestinian authority?

The Palestinians in Israel are "lesser" citizens and live in fear of getting kicked out if/when certain political factions have their way.

the Muslim nations have this kind of hatred for both Israel and America...

That is untrue.

Obama's selling out of Israel

What do you mean by that?

[

[Ted Oplinger]

carolaa,

Quote:

The Palestinians in Israel are "lesser" citizens and live in fear of getting kicked out if/when certain political factions have their way.

Really? Lesser citizens that have held offices in the Knesset, built successful businesses, and know that the factions you speak of are so small as to not constitute a threat to the main society?

Sounds like something based more on anti-Israel propaganda than rational fact.

Quote:

the Muslim nations have this kind of hatred for both Israel and America...

That is untrue.

Uh huh. And what is taught in those Wahibbist schools? "We love America" and "We want to peacefully co-exist with Israel"?

No, what is taught in those schools so widespread across the Arab world is that America is the Great Satan, that American people are infidels, and that Jews are nothing more than the descendants of apes and pigs - all deserving nothing but a quick extinction, to the greater glory of Allah.

These schools form the bulk of education in Arab countries, and these ideas are drilled into their children's minds from day 1. I don't see any real love there, and it is quite apparent they have no qualms about projecting this as the image of way they think. They don't have the same emoting, "I'm OK-you're OK" touchy-feely stuff America has in its cultural thought.

The morning of 9/11 should have removed all the doubt on this.

It is so very profound to me how many people claim to be so open and intellectual about the Middle East, yet ignore this very point.

Rolling on...