bonnie Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 My point is that we do ask our culture to cater to us. This does not even make sense. We are americans living in the american culture. It is not catering to culture. We are not going to another country for a better life and demanding they cater to the american culture Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 Wouldn't it be a nice gesture if the town would be considerate enough to schedule their meetings when more people could attend? There's nothing wrong with their asking, but they should not be demanding it. First,they don't ask. You may not realize but meetings are already scheduled for the maximum turnout. Just where would you stop the nice gesture of changing the schedule. Muslims??? Hispanic catholics??, SDA's so as not to interfere with prayer meeting?? African -americans?? There is something wrong with any race or group of people that thinks they are entitled to be catered to. That think they can go into a place of business and demand it be run the way their culture dictates. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Oplinger Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 Quote: There is something wrong with any race or group of people that thinks they are entitled to be catered to.That think they can go into a place of business and demand it be run the way their culture dictates. Well, that just hit the nail on the head again... What do you expect when it is the long-running strategy of politics to create just this kind of demand? Then professed Christendom sits back very piously, justify the demandings, and copies the proceedings into their own political workings in their organizations...and all this shocks us when it is placed ingloriously before our eyes? Paul said it best - that the end will not come before there is a great falling away...carrying the form of godliness, but denying the power of true godliness. Quote "As iron sharpens iron, so also does one man sharpen another" - Proverbs 27:17 "The offense of the cross is that the cross is a confession of human frailty and sin and of inability to do any good thing. To take the cross of Christ means to depend solely on Him for everything, and this is the abasement of all human pride. Men love to fancy themselves independent. But let the cross be preached, let it be made known that in man dwells no good thing and that all must be received as a gift, and straightway someone is offended." Ellet J. Waggoner, The Glad Tidings "Courage is being scared to death - and saddling up anyway" - John Wayne "The person who pays an ounce of principle for a pound of popularity gets badly cheated" - Ronald Reagan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted June 17, 2009 Moderators Share Posted June 17, 2009 My point is that we do ask our culture to cater to us. I don't ask my culture to cater to me at all. I don't ask it and I don't want it. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fccool Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 There is something wrong with any race or group of people that thinks they are entitled to be catered to. That think they can go into a place of business and demand it be run the way their culture dictates. Bonnie, so I'm guessing that you would equally think that Adventists getting fired because they refuse to work on Saturday would be "ok"? After all, if you are asking for Saturdays off, that is "catering to your culture" is a way. I think that you would mind much if any elections would be restricted to 9-12 on Saturdays. The same goes for when we going out to eat. I ask for the meat to be left out from dishes with meat. That's a cultural demand. The same goes for asking people not to swear in front of their kids... that's a cultural demand. And if you think that you don't ask other people to cater to your culture (way of life), I ask you to rethink. All of us do in one way or another. There are ways to accommodate what is dear to other people. It's not that difficult. All of us make compromises on non-essential matters every day. We have traffic lights that make us wait for ONE car turning left, and we make no big deal about it, because we don't want to end up being in that car with no traffic light. Is it so hard to extend the same type of courtesy to other cultures when it comes to non-essential matters? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 Quote: Bonnie, so I'm guessing that you would equally think that Adventists getting fired because they refuse to work on Saturday would be "ok"? After all, if you are asking for Saturdays off, that is "catering to your culture" is a way. I think that you would mind much if any elections would be restricted to 9-12 on Saturdays. If you get fired for not working on sabbath it means you have already been given the job. A position you should have explained when applying. The employer is to give that off unless GIVING SABBATH OFF PRESENTS A UNDO HARDSHIP FOR THE EMPLOYER. In this what group or religion should be catered to for the town meetings? Quote: The same goes for when we going out to eat. I ask for the meat to be left out from dishes with meat. That's a cultural demand. No, that kind of reasoning is foolishness. I frequently ask for the meat to be left off. I do not ask when I voluntarily choose to eat in any restaurant that the restaurant be kosher for the time I am there.I do not demand the meat to be kosher. ;quote] The same goes for asking people not to swear in front of their kids... that's a cultural demand. And if you think that you don't ask other people to cater to your culture (way of life), I ask you to rethink. All of us do in one way or another. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fccool Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 Bonnie, I think you've missed my point. In the examples I've given above, these are all demands/requests on one's behalf. Sure, they may not be comparable to changing the time of the meeting... but the point is, in all of the cases one would want to be accommodated within reasonable means by the rest of the group. In the traffic stop case, some people may demand to put one even if there are no accidents, because they'd have to drive through the neighborhood to get to other traffic light. It's about making sure that the majority does not infringe on minority's rights. It's true that you can avoid attending things because of your religious preference, but it will only get you so far with society. In one way or another, you will be asked to be accommodated. You evaded my question about voting... if all of the voting would be conducted 9-12 on Saturday morning, would you mind? It's very comparable to having the town hall meetings at times that prohibit certain groups to participate. Especially considering that these groups are ENTITLED to participation because they pay local taxes and abide by the decisions in these hall meetings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fccool Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 Quote: How do they pick a night where something isn't dear to someone? They don't have to change anything, unless people who entitled to participation demand it. Otherwise, they are entitled for their money back . Quote: Why are businesses demanded to conduct business as those coming to our country want? They should not, but if they do want to run successful business, they should accommodate REASONABLE wishes of their customers and employees. I agree, that someone who became Adventist in the middle of the job is in bad place, and should not be seeking to sue the boss for firing them. But, any reasonable boss would try to keep the valuable workers by allowing certain compromises. My certainly does, and I started observing Sabbath just two years ago. I'm not pro forcing someone to do anything that they don't want, and even our judicial system accommodates people's timing when it comes to jury duty and court appearances. So, I don't see it being very unreasonable to move the town hall meeting, or schedule several of them that would accommodate certain group's religious preferences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 Quote: I think you've missed my point. In the examples I've given above, these are all demands/requests on one's behalf. Sure, they may not be comparable to changing the time of the meeting... but the point is, in all of the cases one would want to be accommodated within reasonable means by the rest of the group. You missed a couple of key words. REASONABLE How do you accommodate one group without being willing to accommodate all groups? You can't and you know it. The reason the meetings are scheduled at the day and time they are is they "accommodated" and picked the night most suitable for a greater number of people. Quote: In the traffic stop case, some people may demand to put one even if there are no accidents, because they'd have to drive through the neighborhood to get to other traffic light. It's about making sure that the majority does not infringe on minority's rights. It is really tough trying to take such an example as serious. I do think it is getting a bit desperate to try to prove your point. This is foolishness.....It's about making sure that the majority does not infringe on minority's rights. It is about making driving as safe as possible,not trying to accommodate a minority Quote: It's true that you can avoid attending things because of your religious preference, but it will only get you so far with society. In one way or another, you will be asked to be accommodated. I can't recall asking anyone to accommodate my religious beliefs. It has taken me this far in life. If there is a function I would like to attend but it is on fri night or sabbath ,I simply say why I can't. If they change it,it is of their choosing,not because I demanded or asked. {quote] You evaded my question about voting... if all of the voting would be conducted 9-12 on Saturday morning, would you mind? It's very comparable to having the town hall meetings at times that prohibit certain groups to participate. Especially considering that these groups are ENTITLED to participation because they pay local taxes and abide by the decisions in these hall meetings. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 Quote: They don't have to change anything, unless people who entitled to participation demand it. Otherwise, they are entitled for their money back . It is not their money they would be demanding back,It is our money. Common sense tells you not all can be accommodated so the best choice is made. Quote: They should not, but if they do want to run successful business, they should accommodate REASONABLE wishes of their customers and employees. Key word is reasonable and that has already been stated and is the law. Reasonable does not mean accommodating "one select groups,Muslims" Quote: I agree, that someone who became Adventist in the middle of the job is in bad place, and should not be seeking to sue the boss for firing them. But, any reasonable boss would try to keep the valuable workers by allowing certain compromises. My certainly does, and I started observing Sabbath just two years ago. You lack the knowledge and the right to determine what any employer sees as reasonable. That is not your call unless it violates the law. I'm not pro forcing someone to do anything that they don't want, and even our judicial system accommodates people's timing when it comes to jury duty and court appearances. So, I don't see it being very unreasonable to move the town hall meeting, or schedule several of them that would accommodate certain group's religious preferences. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 Cabbies,culture clash at MN airport http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-10-10-cabbies-culture_x.htm Quote: "When I'm American, I have freedom to practice my religion and freedom to work anyplace I want to work," Hashim says. "This is the way we address Islam. ... We have the right to say this is how we do it." He does not have a right to work anywhere he wants and to say how it will be. They do not have a right to rewrite airport rules. Quote: More than half the airport's taxi drivers are Somali Muslims, and customers have reported being turned away by four taxis before finding a ride. Not all Muslims agree that cab drivers are prohibited from transporting alcohol. Mahmoud Ayoub, an Islamic scholar at Temple University, says the main ban is against drinking. "I know many Muslims who own gas stations (where beer is sold) and sell ham sandwiches," even though pork is also prohibited, Ayoub says. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsailor29 Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 Sabbath observance is an interesting subject. Â Â Should we work on Sabbath? Â Â This question has come up. Â Â Jesus has a lot to say about Sabbath observance. Â Â He worked on Sabbath. Â Â I think when we dedicate our lives to God, from then on our jobs are not just our jobs, but they then become God's way of supporting us. Â Â And when we work, we are working for the Lord. Â Â If the Lord determines He can use us better in another part of His vineyard, He will lead us there. Â Â A lot of SDAs make it very difficult for the Lord to bless them by refusing to work in the Lord's vineyard on Sabbath. Â Â And the church as a whole has delayed the second coming by not waiting for the Lord to lead us, by jumping ahead and doing things which seem good, but things into which the Lord has not led. Â Â We all have seen many examples of this. Â Â Projects for which there is no funding, is a good example. Â Â When the Lord leads us into a project, it will not be short of funds. Â Â Things will go much smoother for people who let the Lord lead in their lives. Quote Prs God, frm whm blssngs flw http://www.zoelifestyle.com/jmccall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 Sabbath observance is an interesting subject. Â Â Should we work on Sabbath? Â Â This question has come up. Â Â Jesus has a lot to say about Sabbath observance. Â Â He worked on Sabbath. Â Â I think when we dedicate our lives to God, from then on our jobs are not just our jobs, but they then become God's way of supporting us. Â Â And when we work, we are working for the Lord. Â Â If the Lord determines He can use us better in another part of His vineyard, He will lead us there. Â Â A lot of SDAs make it very difficult for the Lord to bless them by refusing to work in the Lord's vineyard on Sabbath. Â Â And the church as a whole has delayed the second coming by not waiting for the Lord to lead us, by jumping ahead and doing things which seem good, but things into which the Lord has not led. Â Â We all have seen many examples of this. Â Â Projects for which there is no funding, is a good example. Â Â When the Lord leads us into a project, it will not be short of funds. Â Â Things will go much smoother for people who let the Lord lead in their lives. What you say is true. That is not the issue. The issue is making accommodations for a select religion. Asking for special privileges because they are muslims regardless of the inconvenience to others. I have no right to demand because I am SDA,unless what is being done is illegal. No one religious denomination has the right to demand an entire town accommodate their religious customs. I don't care where muslims or any other religious denomination work. Until and unless it becomes a demand and it is all "their right",I have a little problem with that. If those of a different persuasion don't like the way a business is run TOUGH,start your own. No one has a right to make so much disruption that paying customers that are considerate of others leave. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolaa Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 The employer is to give that off unless GIVING SABBATH OFF PRESENTS A UNDO HARDSHIP FOR THE EMPLOYER. But not all of them do this. So when they won't, we ask the denomination to go in and sue their pants off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 Originally Posted By: bonnie The employer is to give that off unless GIVING SABBATH OFF PRESENTS A UNDO HARDSHIP FOR THE EMPLOYER. But not all of them do this. So when they won't, we ask the denomination to go in and sue their pants off. If they do not grant what they easily can then they are breaking the law. That happens to be the law which protects the muslims as well as everyone else. That is not a law that is for SDA's alone to use. That law was not passed to give special consideration to SDA's. Maybe you think it would not be a hardship for all businesses and meetings etc to adjust their schedule to that of muslims. Try to figure out how many groups they may end up giving special consideration to. We live in a farming area. Should farmers disrupt their milking schedule so as not to interfere with muslim pray time?? They cannot do that. Muslims for some reason seem to be this protected group,all privileges granted to them as rights. Why is that? Let them abide by the same laws we do to earn the privilege. They do not have the right to demand we cater to all whims and cultural aspects or their religion. Sometimes being SDA can get down right inconvenient and in the way of what we want at a specific time. Tough cookies,I have no right to try to get everyone to make allowances for me Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted June 18, 2009 Moderators Share Posted June 18, 2009 This is true whether it is one of our own, or not. But the truth is...sinful flesh will make excuses for those who are "our own", while condemning those who are "not". You have rightly hit the nail on the head. Israelis elected a terrorist because he was one of their own. That's precisely the point. Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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