carolaa Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 Quote: Actually, we *were* discussing pollution and toxic waste with regards to oil, coal, and nuclear, in relation to cap and trade. But fine if you want to get back to specifics of cap and trade. The combination of cap and trade,oil,coal and nuclear ,pollution and toxic waste really can't be separated. That's kinda what I was thinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolaa Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 What Obama is promoting is not sustainable . By the time he is done the economy will be far below the bottom of the barrel. Some people are most concerned with saving the economy; others are most concerned with saving the planet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolaa Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 It just might be a intelligent move to stop worshiping at the altar of Obama and pay attention to what others have tried,what most of the economists say. Try reading Warren Buffets comments, a staunch supporter of Obama. Seems he has a little disagreement as to where we are and where we are headed. Barack Obama and Warren Buffett are both way more intelligent than I am. Hmmm....which one should I choose? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted June 26, 2009 Author Share Posted June 26, 2009 Quote: What Obama is promoting is not sustainable . By the time he is done the economy will be far below the bottom of the barrel. Quote: Some people are most concerned with saving the economy; others are most concerned with saving the planet. I favor those that want both. We will not destroy this planet,we can pollute it but we can not destroy it. We can and will destroy the economy and cause critical hardship on those least able to cope It is not either or. The big created crisis is necessary to implement the big power grab. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted June 26, 2009 Author Share Posted June 26, 2009 Quote: Barack Obama and Warren Buffett are both way more intelligent than I am. Hmmm....which one should I choose? So far Obama has not shown such an unusual intelligence. Being elected president is not a sign of a high IQ. He has never worked a regular job,he has never run a business. So many now can't wait to let the US economy rest in the hands of a novice, doing what has already been done that did not work. For me, I will put my money on a man that has been there done that.His success and wealth should give some indication of his ability and insight, along with a growing number of economists that say the same. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolaa Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 We will not destroy this planet,we can pollute it but we can not destroy it. But why would we choose to pollute the planet? We can and will destroy the economy and cause critical hardship on those least able to cope It is not either or. The big created crisis is necessary to implement the big power grab. Who is it that supposedly created this crisis? It didn't begin with the U.S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted June 26, 2009 Author Share Posted June 26, 2009 Quote: But why would we choose to pollute the planet? I didn't say we should choose to pollute it. Humans will cause pollution. That is not a right to dump toxic waste anywhere we choose to. Nor is it a right for Obama and friends to wreck havoc on our economy. Less and less believe Gore's drival in his book. Which was taken out of some of our classrooms in MN because of fraudulent statements Gore made. I am still waiting for Gore to live according to his book. Less and less believe in the global warming theory. Most can figure out what the cap and trade will do. The intelligent person might look at those like Spain,that have been there and done that for a little guidance. Quote: Who is it that supposedly created this crisis? It didn't begin with the U.S. Personally I could care less who started it. It is the US and what our government is doing now that we all have to live with. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted June 26, 2009 Members Share Posted June 26, 2009 Not to indorse Newt, but he is a very intelligent person, and I believe while he was speaker of the house, he did a very good job. pk Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted June 26, 2009 Author Share Posted June 26, 2009 300 pages of amendments added yesterday and no one has the time to read thru before vote today Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 300 pages of amendments added yesterday and no one has the time to read thru before vote today Bonnie ... Did you actually expect the Democrats to change their methods. This is the way Obama works. It's the new way. Let's not criticize things before we have given them a chance to work. Ha Ha. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted June 26, 2009 Author Share Posted June 26, 2009 Originally Posted By: bonnie 300 pages of amendments added yesterday and no one has the time to read thru before vote today Bonnie ... Did you actually expect the Democrats to change their methods. This is the way Obama works. It's the new way. Let's not criticize things before we have given them a chance to work. Ha Ha. No I didn't think that the democrats would change their way of doing things. There was that little glimmer of hope those that will be hit the hardest might have a light bulb go off. It will be interesting to see what happens with the poor,elderly.those holding low end jobs. Or when the jobs of the middle class are lost at a much faster rate. Cap and trade may be the bill to usher in the hope and change. Hope that it is rescinded as no one wants the change in their lives. Listening to the radio this morning Micheal Jackson's death rates higher in interest than something that will alter their lives in ways they can't understand now. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted June 26, 2009 Author Share Posted June 26, 2009 Redwood, You can draw a sigh of relief. Cow flatulance that was going to be taxed has been removed from the bill. There will be only 1,000 mandates in the cap and trade. Don't fear tho,the cows can continue to release flatulance Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted June 26, 2009 Members Share Posted June 26, 2009 Now that's a relief to hear. lol As far as the democrats changing they ways, come on neither will the republicans. pk Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted June 26, 2009 Author Share Posted June 26, 2009 Now that's a relief to hear. lol As far as the democrats changing they ways, come on neither will the republicans. pk One thing I was glad to hear is the millions set aside for a search for ways to help Chinese prostitutes to drink responsibly when plying their trade. We have a president that promised more than once,Transparency . Waxman is one of this bill. If the news report is correct,he doesn't know what is in this bill,especially the recent 300 pages,but is of course voting for it. Sadly,the republicans have done what you claim they won't. They have changed and play suck up on much of this Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 Originally Posted By: Shane New advances in drilling are allowing us to access oil in places where we could not get it before. That sounds awfully expensive to me - maybe we should re-think that idea. As long as oil stays above $45/barrel this method of getting oil is still profitable. If we want to talk about expensive and inefficient ways of getting energy, then let's talk about wind and solar. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolaa Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 Quote: Who is it that supposedly created this crisis? It didn't begin with the U.S. Personally I could care less who started it. It is the US and what our government is doing now that we all have to live with. But you said the global warming theory/crisis was created as a power grab. So who is it that created the theory/crisis and is trying to grab power? And is this happening all over the world, or is it just a U.S. problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolaa Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 Originally Posted By: carolaa That sounds awfully expensive to me - maybe we should re-think that idea. As long as oil stays above $45/barrel this method of getting oil is still profitable. If we want to talk about expensive and inefficient ways of getting energy' date=' then let's talk about wind and solar. [/quote'] Well, T Boone Pickens believes in it. And what about water power? Harness those ocean waves. Renewable sources of energy seems like a better idea to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 We have to build machines to "harness" that energy. The machines are expensive to build, expensive to maintain and have a limited lifetime. Hydroelectric power is old technology that is tried and true. There are a lot of rivers we could be building dams on and a lot of dams we could be modernizing to make more efficient. The problem is that the environmentalists tie all those efforts up in the courts for years. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolaa Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 Why do we have to build dams? Can't we develop a water wheel or some other method instead of damming up rivers? As far as wind and solar, I consider them investments, not expenses. Once built and going, they should be low maintenance and low expense. Gas and oil are expenses. They are a limited resource which makes them more expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted June 28, 2009 Author Share Posted June 28, 2009 Why do we have to build dams? Can't we develop a water wheel or some other method instead of damming up rivers? As far as wind and solar, I consider them investments, not expenses. Once built and going, they should be low maintenance and low expense. Gas and oil are expenses. They are a limited resource which makes them more expensive. Whether it is a called a investment instead of a expense,the investment has to be paid for upfront. A wind farm size can be in the neighborhood of 270 miles. It is not all that efficient or cheap. Don't you think if it were truly a viable option it would be in use far more than it is? The subsidies,tax breaks etc are huge. More than enough for companies to be slapping up wind farms all over. It isn't happening. Maybe to many follow Ed Kennedy,he refused it for his area because it is to ugly and he didn't want to look at the windmill farms Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 Solar and wind are not low maintenance. They have generators that generate electricity just like gas, oil or coal do. The difference is that it is wind or steam which is driving the generator. All of these have maintenance issues. Electricity does lose power the longer it is transported so when we generate wind or solar power out in our deserts and send it back to our cities, we do lose a good portion of what has been generated in the process of transporting it. Wind and solar sources also can only generate power when the wind blows or sun shines. That does not always coincide with peak power usages so these green sources always need to be backed up with another source like nuclear or fossil fuel. Hydroelectric generators are run off from water flowing through a turbine. The water has to have enough pressure to turn the turbine with enough velocity to generate electricity. In order to achieve that a dam needs to be built to create that water pressure. There are friendly hydroelectric dams that allow wildlife to go up and down the river. However it isn't enough for the extremist environmentalists. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolaa Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 Don't you think if it were truly a viable option it would be in use far more than it is? No, I really don't. I firmly believe the oil & gas companies are so powerful that they snuff out the competition pretty quickly. The subsidies,tax breaks etc are huge. More than enough for companies to be slapping up wind farms all over. It isn't happening. Maybe to many follow Ed Kennedy,he refused it for his area because it is to ugly and he didn't want to look at the windmill farms Do you mean Ted Kennedy? Doesn't he live on Martha's Vineyard? That's a tourist area, and I don't think they even allow motorized vehicles, so why would they allow a windmill farm? They would do at least as well to harness the power of the ocean. Anyway, yes, I'm glad they finally have subsidies and tax breaks for renewable energy. It's really crazy to depend on nonrenewable sources. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolaa Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 Solar and wind are not low maintenance. They have generators that generate electricity just like gas, oil or coal do. The difference is that it is wind or steam which is driving the generator. All of these have maintenance issues. Electricity does lose power the longer it is transported so when we generate wind or solar power out in our deserts and send it back to our cities, we do lose a good portion of what has been generated in the process of transporting it. Wind and solar sources also can only generate power when the wind blows or sun shines. That does not always coincide with peak power usages so these green sources always need to be backed up with another source like nuclear or fossil fuel. Hydroelectric generators are run off from water flowing through a turbine. The water has to have enough pressure to turn the turbine with enough velocity to generate electricity. In order to achieve that a dam needs to be built to create that water pressure. There are friendly hydroelectric dams that allow wildlife to go up and down the river. However it isn't enough for the extremist environmentalists. I think you've explained where we are right now very well. But even now electricity has to be transported, no matter what its source is. I think with a little thinking outside the box, along with the increased funding they are getting, these issues can be resolved. But I also don't think the oil & gas (or coal & nuclear) companies are going to let it happen without a huge fight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 Alternative energies are not viable for the foreseeable future. If Jesus does not return in the next century, these are technologies our great grandchildren or great great grandchildren may need. So we should invest in the research and trials of the many options. However our power source needs today are not going to be met by wind or solar. Nuclear is the most promising clean fuel and it will lessen our dependence on foreign oil. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted June 28, 2009 Author Share Posted June 28, 2009 Quote: No, I really don't. I firmly believe the oil & gas companies are so powerful that they snuff out the competition pretty quickly. Odd isn't it that other countries as Spain along with the US have energy supplied by windmills? It isn't working so well. With other forms of energy that is renewable one would think they would be springing up all over. Why didn't the oil and gas companies just snuff it out. If there was a real demand for their product, manufacturers would not be able to keep up with it. It is pretty far fetched to think a oil company could snuff out a windmill company. If true I would think they already would snuff out the existing ones Quote: Doesn't he live on Martha's Vineyard? That's a tourist area, and I don't think they even allow motorized vehicles, so why would they allow a windmill farm? They would do at least as well to harness the power of the ocean. Anyway, yes, I'm glad they finally have subsidies and tax breaks for renewable energy. It's really crazy to depend on nonrenewable sources. I don't know where he lives and don't care. For the good of the country and the planet he should be willing to do what is necessary,not what is necessarily pleasing. We have the resources and subsidies and tax breaks have been around for quite awhile. Hasn't seemed to help Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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