BobRyan Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 I have quite a few loved ones who are not believers; some of these don't believe in creation either. I for one, would love for 'new' evidence to be discovered; it might influence my loved ones - and others, to take a closer look at the Bible and/or SDA teachings. I agree. However my concern now is that the events of Maranatha pg 200 are just upon us -- it may be too late for that. in Christ, Bob Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeOfLife Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 So long as there is life there is hope... Yet, for each one ever alive, per the First Angel's Message there remains a choice to be made... Since the Second Angel provides a clear message re which choice not to make... It shouldn't be difficult not to make a choice such that the consequences outlined by the Third Angel's message would follow, should it? - Yet, why is it that so many are too afraid of taking a stand contrary to a blind following of the masses that are controlled by the Powers that Be that are appointed as owners and trustees of the sheeple characterized by being satisfied with imperfection in varying degrees, that is, by that which is represented by the numbers 600, 60, and 6 ??????? Compare Strong’s G5516! [if you don’t have Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance and Dictionary, why not download your free copy of e-Sword or Davar Bible Study Software to enrich your Bible study experience?!] More… Shalom, Tree of Life © Quote http://adamoh.org Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Rich Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Treeoflife, can you provide the evidence that the first angle's message, or for that matter, all three and the angle's messages has started already and that angels don't give these messages but people do? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeOfLife Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 The Three Angel’s Messages - When…? and By Whom? Treeoflife, can you provide the evidence that the first angle's message, or for that matter, all three and the angle's messages has started already and that angels don't give these messages but people do? Thanks Quote http://adamoh.org Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Rich Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 TOL, There is nothing to argue here and nothing to agree or disagree with. I just asked a couple simple questions. Please don't be so defensive. What the first angel is saying or preaching is "the hour of His Judment has come" -- right? Therefore your answer (if I can call it that) does not seem right to me. Yes, the gospel of the Kingdom is eternal since the Kingdom will last forever as prophecied in Daniel 2. But clearly, the hour of His judgment has not come already--or did I miss something? Also, I see that the angel is flying in midheaven. People don't do that so when the SDA church teach and preach that they are the ones that are bringing the '3 angel's messeges' to the world, it just does not make sense to me. Like they already started over a hundred years ago, but the 'hour' is not up yet I guess? The second angel is saying that Babylon has fallen twice. So didn't the Jews/Israel have 2 chances to be God's people and both times dropped the ball--or fell both times? Ok, I am not sure one way or the other here and that is why I am asking. Now this can't be in the past since it is just before the mark of the beast is a problem and the mark of the beast can't be worshiping on Sunday--can it? After all, don't most people who call themselves Christians and worship on Sunday also believe in righteousness by faith? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted July 1, 2009 Moderators Share Posted July 1, 2009 Yes, the gospel of the Kingdom is eternal since the Kingdom will last forever as prophecied in Daniel 2. But clearly, the hour of His judgment has not come already--or did I miss something? I believe the evidence is that the hour of God's judgment started in 1844. That time of His judgment is from the beginning of the Investigative Judgment to the end of human probation just before Christ's second coming. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted July 1, 2009 Moderators Share Posted July 1, 2009 Now this can't be in the past since it is just before the mark of the beast is a problem and the mark of the beast can't be worshiping on Sunday--can it? After all, don't most people who call themselves Christians and worship on Sunday also believe in righteousness by faith? The Beast is the same as the man of sin, or the man of lawlessness. He is opposed to the law of God, and he will try to cause all people to disobey God's law. The order that this power gives to all peoples of the world will eventually require them to disobey God or be killed. I think it makes the best sense that he'll have a law which calls for people to disobey the fourth commandment, because that is the part of the law which contains God's seal. It expresses God's authority to give the law. He is the Creator as well as Redeemer. The Sabbath is the only part of the law that is based strictly on God's will. The other part of the law is according to reason, but the Sabbath is only the result of the arbitrary command of God. It is like the tree in the garden of Eden in that respect. Both the tree and the Sabbath, therefore, make the perfect test. Everyone has the same amount of time, and so it is a completely fair test. The test on the Sabbath will reveal who really believes in God and who doesn't. Belief or worship is connected with obedience. If I truly worship God-- the same as having true faith in Him-- I will obey Him. Righteousness is "right-doing-ness." So righteousness by faith is actually "right-doing-ness that results from trust in Christ." Righteousness is conformity to God's moral standards, which of course is God's moral law, the Ten Commandments. Genuine righteousness by faith brings us into harmony with God's character and will. The beast power is out to cause all people to be opposed to God's will, yet to make them think that they are obeying Him. He can do that mostly easily with the Sabbath because He has most of the Christian world persuaded that God's Sabbath no longer exists. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeOfLife Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 The Hour of His Judgment… When and What? 666 - One Thing Only…? - Or a Most Important Characteristic Among Other Characteristics? TOL, There is nothing to argue here and nothing to agree or disagree with. I just asked a couple simple questions. Please don't be so defensive. Quote http://adamoh.org Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeOfLife Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Some Concerns Re Too Narrow a View… Originally Posted By: Dr. Rich Now this can't be in the past since it is just before the mark of the beast is a problem and the mark of the beast can't be worshiping on Sunday--can it? After all, don't most people who call themselves Christians and worship on Sunday also believe in righteousness by faith? The Beast is the same as the man of sin, or the man of lawlessness. He is opposed to the law of God, and he will try to cause all people to disobey God's law. The order that this power gives to all peoples of the world will eventually require them to disobey God or be killed. I think it makes the best sense that he'll have a law which calls for people to disobey the fourth commandment, because that is the part of the law which contains God's seal. It expresses God's authority to give the law. He is the Creator as well as Redeemer. The Sabbath is the only part of the law that is based strictly on God's will. The other part of the law is according to reason, but the Sabbath is only the result of the arbitrary command of God. It is like the tree in the garden of Eden in that respect. Both the tree and the Sabbath, therefore, make the perfect test. Everyone has the same amount of time, and so it is a completely fair test. The test on the Sabbath will reveal who really believes in God and who doesn't. Belief or worship is connected with obedience. If I truly worship God-- the same as having true faith in Him-- I will obey Him. Righteousness is "right-doing-ness." So righteousness by faith is actually "right-doing-ness that results from trust in Christ." Righteousness is conformity to God's moral standards, which of course is God's moral law, the Ten Commandments. Genuine righteousness by faith brings us into harmony with God's character and will. The beast power is out to cause all people to be opposed to God's will, yet to make them think that they are obeying Him. He can do that mostly easily with the Sabbath because He has most of the Christian world persuaded that God's Sabbath no longer exists. Quote http://adamoh.org Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRyan Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Originally Posted By: Dr. Rich Yes, the gospel of the Kingdom is eternal since the Kingdom will last forever as prophecied in Daniel 2. But clearly, the hour of His judgment has not come already--or did I miss something? I believe the evidence is that the hour of God's judgment started in 1844. That time of His judgment is from the beginning of the Investigative Judgment to the end of human probation just before Christ's second coming. All true John. The hour of His judgment HAS come and "yes" Rich has apparently missed something. Daniel 7 comes to mind. in Christ, Bob Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Rich Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 John, thanks for your answer and I know that people in the SDA believe that the investigative judgment started in 1844, but now that I have researched this it is my opinion that they got the date right of 1843 (not 1844) but the even wrong, both of them actually, the coming and the start of the so called 'investigative judgments' I mean, how long does it take to judge? Here is eveidence supporting my opinion: Rev. 11:1: And there was given me a measuring rod like a staff; and someone said, "Rise and measure the temple of God, and the altar and those who worship in it.." This must mean a judjment FIRST for only those in the Kingdom of Heaven (SDA church) against a measuring stick (rod) meaning the Ten Commandments. This takes place at or near the start of the 3 1/2 years tribulation. Therefore, the so called 'investigative judgment theory' is proven to be a false teaching for there is no support for that teaching. What this boils down to is that probation is up (they are judged first)for the SDA church before the rest of the world--those who are in the court yard of the temple as we see in verse 2: "And leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the [rest of] nations and they will tread underfoot the holy city for forty two months (new moons)." Enjoy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Rich Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 By the way "Tree of Life" and John317, don't think that I don't enjoy your posts because I do! Clearly I see that both of you have done independent study much deeper than most. I had to stop and take a breath a few times while reading some of the sentences, but all of your posts are very informative. I like that! I just hope you don't get upset with a 'jab' now and then from me. Please don't take it personal! Dr. Rich (SDA) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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