When Christ's character shall be perfectly reproduced in his people...

[Woody]

makes you wonder why robert hates sdas, doesnt it? lol with such good Christlike examples running around.

I have to agree teresa.

It amazes me what some in the club can get by with saying.

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

Where have I said that God is a physical presence in us?

In the other thread where you said the Holy Spirit literally dwells in our heart muscle.

Quote:

The Holy Spirit is spiritual not physical.

I agree.

Quote:

Do you agree that the Holy Spirit resides in us?

What do you mean by that?

Quote:

That the actual Spiritual presence of God is in us.

Which means what?

Quote:

Not just outside of us and talking to us?

What do you mean "outside"?

When you say the Holy Spirit is "inside" of us, do you mean that its molecules are intermixed inside of our molecules? You say it's a spiritual presence, but "spiritual" is a mental function, right? What else could it be? This is why it's so important that we take care of our health. If our minds go, God cannot communicate with us, because all communication comes by way of the mind. So spiritual ==> mental function.

Quote:

We are God's workmanship, and His Word declares that we are "fearfully and wonderfully made." He has prepared this living habitation for the mind; it is "curiously wrought," a temple which the Lord Himself has fitted up for the indwelling of His Holy Spirit. The mind controls the whole man. All our actions, good or bad, have their source in the mind. It is the mind that worships God and allies us to heavenly beings. Yet many spend all their lives without becoming intelligent in regard to the casket [the human body] that contains this treasure.--Child Guidance, p. 360. {RC 149.2}

Notice this says, "a temple which the Lord Himself has fitted up for the indwelling of His Holy Spirit." This is explained as:

Quote:

The mind controls the whole man. All our actions, good or bad, have their source in the mind. It is the mind that worships God and allies us to heavenly beings.

This is agreeing with what I said, it seems to me.

You seem to view the Holy Spirit as something physical and arguing that I am claiming that is the case but then asserting it is spiritual at the same time.

Your post is very confusing.

I have stated my position.

Please state yours clearly because your post seems full of contradictions and confusion.

[teresaq]

could you take it part by part and show where your confusion lies, twilight? i understood it quite well

[teresaq]

are you able to justify this assertion, richard?

Originally Posted By: Richard Holbrook

He made Robert believe he can keep right on sinning until Jesus comes, and still be saved.

how did he do that, richard?

are you saying that robert has no free will of his own?

are you saying that people do not have the ability to misunderstand, misrepresent and misinterpret what is said?

[pnattmbtc]

You seem to view the Holy Spirit as something physical

[Twilight]

You have misrepresented my words Pnat, through confusion and misunderstanding I fear.

---------------

3 points:

1. God is spiritual and He comes into our hearts in a personal spiritual sense.

I am claiming this as truth:

Gal 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

And this:

2Cr 1:22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

And this:

Rom 5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

2. Nowhere in the bible does it state that the Holy Spirit dwells in the mind. Not in one single place, it only ever states body and heart.

3. When you argue biblical truth, please argue it from the bible. I get concerned when people try to prove something from the Spirit of Prophecy, that they cannot prove from the bible. As Adventists we should not do that.

If you cannot find it in the bible, you are mis-reading meaning into the SOP that is not there, you are abusing the precious gift of the Spirit of Prophecy.

It is this type of behaviour that distances other Christians from us and enables them to label us as a "cult".

Show it from the Bible, support it with the SOP and then use the Bible as the basis of your argument.

If you cannot show it from the bible, you have nothing to show my friend. :-)

Mark

[teresaq]

put simply, mark, you see the HS as literally inside a person based on your interpretation of scripture, while others see those same scriptures in a figurative sense...

would you agree or disagree?

from thayers for heart,

Thayer Definition:

Quote:

1) the heart

1a) that organ in the animal body which is the centre of the circulation of the blood, and hence was regarded as the seat of physical life

1b) denotes the centre of all physical and spiritual life

2a) the vigour and sense of physical life

2b) the centre and seat of spiritual life

2b1) the soul or mind, as it is the fountain and seat of the thoughts, passions, desires, appetites, affections, purposes, endeavours

2b2) of the understanding, the faculty and seat of the intelligence

2b3) of the will and character

2b4) of the soul so far as it is affected and stirred in a bad way or good, or of the soul as the seat of the sensibilities, affections, emotions, desires, appetites, passions

1c) of the middle or central or inmost part of anything, even though inanimate

Part of Speech: noun feminine

A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: prolonged from a primary kar (Latin, cor, “heart”)

Citing in TDNT: 3:605, 415

do you agree or disagree with these definitions as used for the greek word kardia?

[Twilight]

put simply, mark, you see the HS as literally inside a person based on your interpretation of scripture, while others see those same scriptures in a figurative sense...

would you agree or disagree?

The Bible plainly states in numerous places Teresa, that the Holy Spirit is "in us".

It leaves no room for a "figurative" interpretation.

I could produce at least 6 or 7 verses without even really trying.

Upon what scriptural basis can you support your claim?

Please supply the scripture that will show the that Holy Spirit is "not really" in us.

[Twilight]

Here are the scriptures Teresa:

Jhn 14:17 [Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

1Cr 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

1Cr 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost [which is] in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

2Ti 1:14 That good thing which was committed unto thee keep by the Holy Ghost which dwelleth in us.

Have you considered these prayerfully?

[teresaq]

Originally Posted By: teresaq(sda)

put simply, mark, you see the HS as literally inside a person based on your interpretation of scripture, while others see those same scriptures in a figurative sense...

would you agree or disagree?

The Bible plainly states in numerous places Teresa, that the Holy Spirit is "in us".

It leaves no room for a "figurative" interpretation.

I could produce at least 6 or 7 verses without even really trying.

Upon what scriptural basis can you support your claim?

Please supply the scripture that will show the that Holy Spirit is "not really" in us.

was that a yes or no?

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

The Bible plainly states in numerous places Teresa, that the Holy Spirit is "in us".

It leaves no room for a "figurative" interpretation.

I could produce at least 6 or 7 verses without even really trying.

Upon what scriptural basis can you support your claim?

Please supply the scripture that will show the that Holy Spirit is "not really" in us.

was that a yes or no?

It is a yes, that the scripture states the Holy Spirit literally dwells in us, I am not sure how you would not be able to see that from my following post with all the scriptures?

How you can come to any other conclusion mystifies me, it really does.

I cannot see any basis for you to argue that the Holy Spirit does not "dwell in us".

From scripture.

[Twilight]

Here are some other texts Teresa:

Eze 11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:

Eze 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do [them].

Notice it does not say:

I will put "a" spirit "like mine" within you (which I suspect you may try to argue).

It states:

I will put "my" spirit within you.

[Guest]

Here are some other texts Teresa:

Eze 11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:

Eze 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do [them].

Notice it does not say:

I will put "a" spirit "like mine" within you (which I suspect you may try to argue).

It states:

I will put "my" spirit within you.

Amen!

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

Here are some other texts Teresa:

Eze 11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:

Eze 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do [them].

Notice it does not say:

I will put "a" spirit "like mine" within you (which I suspect you may try to argue).

It states:

I will put "my" spirit within you.

Amen!

I really do not understand how people can argue against this simple truth Richard.

It genuinely puzzles me.

[teresaq]

put simply, mark, you see the HS as literally inside a person based on your interpretation of scripture, while others see those same scriptures in a figurative sense...

would you agree or disagree?

[Guest]

I really do not understand how people can argue against this simple truth Richard.

It genuinely puzzles me.

It puzzles me too....

[pnattmbtc]

You have misrepresented my words Pnat, through confusion and misunderstanding I fear.

[teresaq]

i read this text today in my bible reading which reminded me of some others,

1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

there are others...

reading about the kellogg crises in the ellen white biography section can help clarify the issues...

[teresaq]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

Here are some other texts Teresa:

Eze 11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:

Eze 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do [them].

It states:

I will put "my" spirit within you.

Amen!

richard, would you know what your position is? or do you just make remarks without knowing what you are responding to?

http://clubadventist.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/323777/3.html

the whole thread might remind you in case you had forgotten....

[Guest]

I have not forgotten. I do believe God puts His spirit within us. Just like the Bible says. I don't believe when it refers to the heart, that it is talking about that muscle that pumps blood, but the mind. They are used interchangably by the Bible and EGW. But that is a minor point. Hence the Amen, to:

"I will put "my" spirit within you"

[teresaq]

so you havent really studied the kellogg crises, then? or testimonies 7 and 8?

[Twilight]

so you havent really studied the kellogg crises, then? or testimonies 7 and 8?

Kellog was teaching that the Holy Spirit was an impersonal force, rather than an individual.

You may have confused that with the simple fact that your body is indeed a temple to the Holy Spirit.

You are talking about a seperate issue.

[Twilight]

Secondly, what does it mean to say that the Holy Spirit dwells "in" us? I get the impression you view this in a physical way, as if the Holy Spirit were a gas. So He dwells in us like air dwells is us. But in our heart muscle.

Where have I ever said that Pnat?

You are indeed misrepresenting my views.

There is no one here that could explain what Gods Spirit consists of.

Just like we cannot explain what our "spirit" is exactly.

Can you explain what Gods Spirit is?

I cannot.

I do not understand it.

But please please desist in this putting words in my mouth about what you think I believe the nature of the Holy Spirit is when I have expressed no such thing.

And please stop making claims that I beleive God is gas or other such foolish points.

Study this verse:

1Cr 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

Then come and argue, but please stop arguing pointless issues that I am not stating.

It really does put me off discussing anything with you.

[Twilight]

Just to stop this nonsense.

I do not believe or have ever expressed at any time that the Holy Spirit is a form of Gas or other type of physical being.

I believe He is a Spiritual being.

I also do not understand what He consists of or how He can be in all places at once.

I do not even know what "spirit" is, none of us do.

I am not claiming He is some type of "cellular being" either.

Contrary to what Pnat keeps trying to insist I am saying.

[Guest]

Yeah pnat, stop with the word putting already. Mark never said those things.