When Christ's character shall be perfectly reproduced in his people...

[Guest]

It's not all wrong of course. It's mixed with error, which makes it more insidious for someone who is new to Bible study, and doesn't know what they are looking at.

[Robert]

It's not all wrong of course. It's mixed with error....

Okay, prove it....Start another post. Call it something like "the lies of Jack Sequeira". This will be interesting.

[Robert]

Okay, I'll start the post. You guys fill it in, only the best place to get your data is from Jack himself, not from others. Here's his website:

Click here

[Guest]

I'll start one.

[Robert]

Too late....

[Restin]

That comment of EGW (about perfectly reflecting the character of Christ) used to be the most discouraging thing I ever heard in church, because it meant to me that Jesus is never coming because it's pretty clear that the church isn't getting better. If He wanted an out, that's it!

But I believe now that it means there will be an outpouring of the Holy Spirit who will bring His remant people to perfection during the Latter Rain. At the least, their relationship with Christ will become perfected. That time hasn't come yet, and "His Church" is all those who are loyal to Him , not the Adventists in general.

[Live4Him]

Quote:

"so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter."

You see "the letter of law" demands two things:

1] Obey & live

2] disobey & die

I think scripture would disagree.

Quote:

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

There is no distinction here between old covenant and new covenant. The wages of sin is death... period. I really don't see where you get that you can live in sin and be saved under the new covenant.. That is exactly what you have posted. Paul is talking about trying to serve God through our own works vs serving God from love. Nothing here about some radical new change. The principle of the law being based on love is an OT principle.

[Restin]

The principle of the law being based on love is an OT principle.

[Gibs]

De 6:5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

De 6:6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:

Ro 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

It just wasn't spelled out in the writings as clearly.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[LoneRanger]

That comment of EGW (about perfectly reflecting the character of Christ) used to be the most discouraging thing I ever heard in church, because it meant to me that Jesus is never coming because it's pretty clear that the church isn't getting better.

[joeb]

Can you re-write this without the Advent-speak. It helps me understand what you are saying.

*PS This is not the sum total of my beliefs, and I alone remain the final, authoritative interpreter of my words.

If you're an SDA why do you have problems understanding "Advent-speak"? Not trying to be nasty, just to understand.

[LoneRanger]

Originally Posted By: LoneRanger

Can you re-write this without the Advent-speak. It helps me understand what you are saying.

*PS This is not the sum total of my beliefs, and I alone remain the final, authoritative interpreter of my words.

If you're an SDA why do you have problems understanding "Advent-speak"? Not trying to be nasty, just to understand.

Very valid point; not nasty at all.

We (Christians generally and SDA specifically) use words and phrases we have heard all our lives without really knowing what they are saying. Others use them, so we assume that everyone "knows" what we're talking about when we use the phrase. When you write without the catch-phrases, you now have to think about what it is that YOU are trying to say.

Outpouring How would one know if or when this has occured or how it occured. Who will it affect? What do we mean by "outpouring?" Is there an "INpouring?"

Remnant people Who are the "remnant?" Are they a definable group? Will the "outpouring" mentioned above only affect the "remnant?" Does the "remnant" = SDA church?

The point is not that I have never heard these words before; of course I have. But one person's ideas of what they mean differ from anyone elses. The words have come to represent a miscellaneous soup of meanings which varies according to the user and hearer.

When one avoids cliches and catch-phrases (and I'm guilty of this also) communication is clearer and stronger.

[joeb]

Very valid point; not nasty at all.

We (Christians generally and SDA specifically) use words and phrases we have heard all our lives without really knowing what they are saying. Others use them, so we assume that everyone "knows" what we're talking about when we use the phrase. When you write without the catch-phrases, you now have to think about what it is that YOU are trying to say.

Outpouring How would one know if or when this has occured or how it occured. Who will it affect? What do we mean by "outpouring?" Is there an "INpouring?"

Remnant people Who are the "remnant?" Are they a definable group? Will the "outpouring" mentioned above only affect the "remnant?" Does the "remnant" = SDA church?

The point is not that I have never heard these words before; of course I have. But one person's ideas of what they mean differ from anyone elses. The words have come to represent a miscellaneous soup of meanings which varies according to the user and hearer.

When one avoids cliches and catch-phrases (and I'm guilty of this also) communication is clearer and stronger.

OK. I now understand. It's a valid point to make.

[joeb]

Still is. Or would be if I believed it. We don't even understand the character of Christ, so how can we perfectly reflect it? I reject Perfection Theology in any form. I am not perfect and never will be. I rely ONLY on the Word of God which says "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved." Acts 16:31*

[BobRyan]

Originally Posted By: LoneRanger

Still is. Or would be if I believed it. We don't even understand the character of Christ, so how can we perfectly reflect it? I reject Perfection Theology in any form. I am not perfect and never will be. I rely ONLY on the Word of God which says "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved." Acts 16:31*

I don't know what you mean by "Perfection theology", but you deny much of what Paul has to say on the subject of righteousness by faith. (I'd quote EGW to you but I know you reject her.)

[BobRyan]

That comment of EGW (about perfectly reflecting the character of Christ) used to be the most discouraging thing I ever heard in church, because it meant to me that Jesus is never coming because it's pretty clear that the church isn't getting better. If He wanted an out, that's it!

But I believe now that it means there will be an outpouring of the Holy Spirit who will bring His remant people to perfection during the Latter Rain. At the least, their relationship with Christ will become perfected. That time hasn't come yet, and "His Church" is all those who are loyal to Him , not the Adventists in general.

Interesting -- but at the same time we are told that He will not pour out His Spirit on unclean vessels or on those who have not first received the former rain.

So preparing for the Latter Rain by separating sin and compromise from the soul through the work of the Holy Spirit is what we are to do now.

If not - then we get Early Writings 71 handed to us.

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

145 pages ??? really!?

Time to start a new thread.

[Ted Oplinger]

145 pages ??? really!?

Time to start a new thread.

Only 29 pages, the way I have my profile set-up....but I agree - to continue this discussion, it would be better to start a new thread and reference this in the OP.

Blessings,

[HopefulOne]

Saved By Grace:

For by grace are ye saved through faith;

and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:... Eph 2:8

Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption

that is in Christ Jesus:..............Romans 3:24

Do we then make void the law through faith?

God forbid: yea, we establish the law..........Romans 3:28-31

What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin,

that grace may abound?God forbid. How shall we,

that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?............Romans 6:1-2

For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not

under the law, but under grace.What then?shall we sin, because we

are not under the law,but under grace? God forbid..........Romans 6:14-15

Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that

we might be justified by faith..... Gal 3:24

Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace,that we may

obtain mercy,and find grace to help in time of need..........Heb 4:16

He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar,

and the truth is not in him.....1 John 2:4

for sin is the transgression of the law...... 1 John 3:4

For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments:

and his commandments are not grievous........1 John 5:

Any Questions ?? Get on your knees and ask Jesus.

[Live4Him]

It honestly goes beyond my understanding why anyone would want to excuse sin. I know what it is like to be a slave to sin. satan is a most forceful and cruel master. Why would anyone WANT to serve someone who forces you to do things against your will? Why wouldn't you want Christ to free you from the law of sin and death. Not saying I am perfect by any means but I find it truly disgusting when I see anyone giving excuses to follow satan. Why would you want guilt and condemnation when you can instead rest in Jesus in His Law of love?

[joeb]

It honestly goes beyond my understanding why anyone would want to excuse sin. I know what it is like to be a slave to sin. satan is a most forceful and cruel master. Why would anyone WANT to serve someone who forces you to do things against your will? Why wouldn't you want Christ to free you from the law of sin and death. Not saying I am perfect by any means but I find it truly disgusting when I see anyone giving excuses to follow satan. Why would you want guilt and condemnation when you can instead rest in Jesus in His Law of love?

Amen Brother. I couldn't have said it better.

The freedom that Christ brings is something anyone who has fallen deeply into sin greatly appreciates. I guess its exactly like Christ said in Luke 4:47 Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.

[Guest]

Originally Posted By: Live4Him

It honestly goes beyond my understanding why anyone would want to excuse sin. I know what it is like to be a slave to sin. satan is a most forceful and cruel master. Why would anyone WANT to serve someone who forces you to do things against your will? Why wouldn't you want Christ to free you from the law of sin and death. Not saying I am perfect by any means but I find it truly disgusting when I see anyone giving excuses to follow satan. Why would you want guilt and condemnation when you can instead rest in Jesus in His Law of love?

Amen Brother. I couldn't have said it better.

The freedom that Christ brings is something anyone who has fallen deeply into sin greatly appreciates. I guess its exactly like Christ said in Luke 4:47 Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.

Amen brothers! I couldn't agree more.

Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen. Jude 24,25

[Guest arnie]

Hi Gail, I go with what the Bible says, "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world, and then shall the end come". Doesn't say God's waiting for His people to be perfect. Carol C.