When Christ's character shall be perfectly reproduced in his people...

[Robert]

So Jesus fell short as far as teaching the gospel for the people of God. Paul makes up 53% of the NT because the RCC put it there, or are you not aware of the compilers of the Canon. Hand picked by a god not God.

[wayfinder]

Independent use of His deity? I always believed that God was One God not independent of each other. Who was Jesus Teacher? My understanding is that it was the Holy Spirit. I also understand that Jesus was both God and Man in one, Son of God and Son of Man.

[Robert]

Independent use of His deity? I always believed that God was One God not independent of each other. Who was Jesus Teacher? My understanding is that it was the Holy Spirit. I also understand that Jesus was both God and Man in one, Son of God and Son of Man.

Read!

[Robert]

Independent use of His deity? I always believed that God was One God not independent of each other. Who was Jesus Teacher? My understanding is that it was the Holy Spirit. I also understand that Jesus was both God and Man in one, Son of God and Son of Man.

When Christ became a man in the incarnation He had to give up not His divinity, but His divine prerogatives, in other words, the independent use of His divinity. Even His God-consciousness had to be given up. Jesus discovered He was God only by revelation. He was not God-conscious as a baby. He had to grow up in knowledge. He had to grow up in everything because He had given up the independent use of His divinity and was made in all things like unto us (Heb. 2:17).

Therefore, He was totally God-dependent all through His earthly ministry. John 5:30 says, “I can do nothing of myself.” John 6:57 says, “I live by the Father.” See also John 8:28 and John 14:10. All these texts state very clearly that Christ was totally God-dependent. Then read Rom 6:4; Acts 2:24, 32; Eph. 1:20. All of these texts clearly tell us that it was the Father who raised Christ from the dead. Keep these two things in mind: Christ was God-dependent, and He was dependent on the Father for the resurrection.

[Richard Holbrook]

Robert:

>>When Christ became a man in the incarnation He had to give up not His divinity, but His divine prerogatives, in other words, the independent use of His divinity. Even His God-consciousness had to be given up. Jesus discovered He was God only by revelation. He was not God-conscious as a baby. He had to grow up in knowledge. He had to grow up in everything because He had given up the independent use of His divinity and was made in all things like unto us (Heb. 2:17).<<

It's true he did depend on the the Father like we have to, but he could have used his power, and that would have been a sin. Satan tried to get him to.

[wayfinder]

Mt 24:14 "This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.

It is the gospel of the kingdom. Christ's fundamental element of His teaching was the kingdom of heaven/God. Check it out, see how many times Jesus uses kingdom in His teaching. Jesus says, "this gospel" not a gospel which I will tell you about through someone you do not now know.

Mark 13:21-23 "And then if anyone says to you, `Behold, here is the Christ'; or, `Behold, He is there'; do not believe him; for false Christs and false prophets will arise, and will show signs and wonders, in order to lead astray, if possible, the elect. "But take heed; behold, I have told you everything in advance.

I have told you everything in advance, it doesn't sound like Jesus is telling the disciples to expect another to come along and help clear things up.

[Richard Holbrook]

Mt 24:14 "This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.

It is the gospel of the kingdom. Christ's fundamental element of His teaching was the kingdom of heaven/God. Check it out, see how many times Jesus uses kingdom in His teaching. Jesus says, "this gospel" not a gospel which I will tell you about through someone you do not now know.

Mark 13:21-23 "And then if anyone says to you, `Behold, here is the Christ'; or, `Behold, He is there'; do not believe him; for false Christs and false prophets will arise, and will show signs and wonders, in order to lead astray, if possible, the elect. "But take heed; behold, I have told you everything in advance.

I have told you everything in advance, it doesn't sound like Jesus is telling the disciples to expect another to come along and help clear things up.

That was concerning the 2nd coming, not the gospel.

[Dr. Rich]

Rob, I can tell you (and others) are having difficulty with this thread. It appears to me that you have built your house (belief system) upon words of others other than Jesus' words given to us by His eyewitnesses. Would it be a difficult task to try something new? How about first reading the words of Jesus and then try to build your house on those words. Isn't this what Jesus warned us about?

BTW--I know Jack S. and I still choose Jesus' words over his.

[wayfinder]

Yes Rob, Jesus depended on His Father, because He and the Father always worked and acted together. Jesus was teaching dependence on the Father by example and He was an exemplary case in point.

[wayfinder]

Rich4truth, Jesus did not say the gospel of the kingdom is about the second coming. He said it would be preached throughout the world and then the end would come. Not, when the gospel of the kingdom is preached throughout the world about the coming end.

The gospel of the kingdom is the testimony of Jesus. The testimony of Jesus is the truth.

[Richard Holbrook]

Mark 13:21-23 "And then if anyone says to you, `Behold, here is the Christ'; or, `Behold, He is there'; do not believe him; for false Christs and false prophets will arise, and will show signs and wonders, in order to lead astray, if possible, the elect. "But take heed; behold, I have told you everything in advance.

This is talking about 2nd coming

[Richard Holbrook]

The thing that we need to realize is what we call in theology, “the kenosis doctrine,” based on Phil. 2:6-8. When Christ became a man in the incarnation He had to give up not His divinity, but His divine prerogatives, in other words, the independent use of His divinity. Even His God-consciousness had to be given up. Jesus discovered He was God only by revelation. He was not God-conscious as a baby. He had to grow up in knowledge. He had to grow up in everything because He had given up the independent use of His divinity and was made in all things like unto us (Heb. 2:17).

It's true he did depend on the the Father like we have to, but he could have used his power, and that would have been a sin. Satan tried to get him to.

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

As someone already pointed out, the commandment is: You shall love your neighbor AS [in the same manner NOT INSTEAD OF] yourself!

Right...now love your neighbor just as you love yourself....Are you doing this?

Yes, I do to my neighbors as I would like them to do to me. Are you giving everything to YOUR neighbor as you advocate God requires?

Quote:

If so, why doesn't your neighbor have at least 1/2 of your goodies?

For one thing, most of my neighbors are better off than me. If they were your followers and obeying your teaching, I'd be rich.

Quote:

On the cross, abandoned by God, Christ defeated our self-love (our bent to self) and instead of coming down and saving Himself, He died the 2nd death....He gave up heaven, not for 3 days, but for eternity so that His enemies could take His place....Where's the self-love in that type of love?

To die for someone else in no way shape or form indicate the absence of self-love. A lot of parents would gladly sacrifice their lives for the good of their children. It does not mean they have no love for themselves.

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Rich4truth

Tell me Robert, when you get through quoting yourself, do you have any goodies left, or does your neighbor have them all?

Wipe that smug self-righteous smile off your face! Unlike many I am glad that I have accepted my deliverance from under law.....It's called the gospel....Under law you must live Christ's life for He fulfilled the law....Under grace you are accepted "in Christ" and experience, to varying degrees, agape in the life....No genuine experience, no real faith...no salvation....

And how can you tell when you have experienced some degree of agape in the life? real faith? salvation?

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: Rich4truth

Tell me Robert, when you get through quoting yourself, do you have any goodies left, or does your neighbor have them all?

Wipe that smug self-righteous smile off your face! Unlike many I am glad that I have accepted my deliverance from under law.....It's called the gospel....Under law you must live Christ's life for He fulfilled the law....Under grace you are accepted "in Christ" and experience, to varying degrees, agape in the life....No genuine experience, no real faith...no salvation....

Yes. The bottom line. Thank you for setting it straight. Well ... I knew it anyways. But some here are ignorant.

[Dr. Rich]

Rich4Truth wrote: "It's true he did depend on the the Father like we have to, but he could have used his power, and that would have been a sin. Satan tried to get him to."

Have you ever read about the event where Jesus turned the water into wine? This was the 4th temptation--right? Yes, it was to help Mary, so it was really not for Himself I guess.

It is no secret among scholars of religions history that there are two separate gospels in the New Testament. One is the one Jesus gave about the Kingdom of Heaven and the other is from Paul. We as Adventists have had our head in the sand thinking that EGW gave us all we need as the truth. I have been suggesting to others not to trust my words either, but to do some honest research and by this I mean to really be honest with yourself. If your mind is made up already, you are no better off than those we are warned about in the message found in Rev. 3 to Laodicea. This is serious stuff we are talking about folks! Please do not take this lightly! Please stop your defense system and open your minds for a change.

There is a real warning for doing this however. Satan does NOT like it when people repent and choose to follow Jesus’ words as a bondservant. He may try to come down on you like a ton of bricks. I, for one know all about this and I have seen it happen with others. So it is your choice, take the easy and wide road, or the narrow one.

[Woody]

Keep up the good work Robert. Appreciate your Gospel centered message.

[Richard Holbrook]

If Christ's confidence in God could be shaken, Satan knew that the victory in the whole controversy would be his. He could overcome Jesus. He hoped that under the force of despondency and extreme hunger, Christ would lose faith in His Father, and work a miracle in His own behalf. Had He done this, the plan of salvation would have been broken. {DA 119.1}

[Robert]

Mt 24:14 "This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.

It is the gospel of the kingdom. Christ's fundamental element of His teaching was the kingdom of heaven/God. Check it out, see how many times Jesus uses kingdom in His teaching. Jesus says, "this gospel" not a gospel which I will tell you about through someone you do not now know.

Mark 13:21-23 "And then if anyone says to you, `Behold, here is the Christ'; or, `Behold, He is there'; do not believe him; for false Christs and false prophets will arise, and will show signs and wonders, in order to lead astray, if possible, the elect. "But take heed; behold, I have told you everything in advance.

I have told you everything in advance, it doesn't sound like Jesus is telling the disciples to expect another to come along and help clear things up.

You haven't told me a thing....Explain the gospel....For that you need Paul

[Robert]

To die for someone else in no way shape or form indicate the absence of self-love. A lot of parents would gladly sacrifice their lives for the good of their children.

But Christ died for us when we were His enemies....And He didn't die any death, He died the 2nd death...no hope of a resurrection.

Would you be willing (not just willing, but would you give up heaven and eternal life) so that some one who murdered, raped and tortured a family member could have heaven in your place.....That's what Christ did. There's no self-love in that.....

[Robert]

Keep up the good work Robert. Appreciate your Gospel centered message.

TU

[Robert]

Yes Rob, Jesus depended on His Father, because He and the Father always worked and acted together.

Jesus, as man, had no advantage....He set aside the independent use of His deity. He could not read the future unless His Father revealed it to Him. So on the cross Jesus couldn't see beyond the grave. Hence He had to make a choice:

1] Come down off the cross and save Himself

or

2] Die eternally (no hope of a resurrection) so that His enemies might take His place

# 1 is self-love

# 2 is agape love.

[Robert]

He hoped that under the force of despondency and extreme hunger, Christ would lose faith in His Father, and work a miracle in His own behalf. Had He done this, the plan of salvation would have been broken. {DA 119.1}

Christ never lost faith in His Father, but He did not see Himself coming forth from the grave.

[Robert]

For one thing, most of my neighbors are better off than me. If they were your followers and obeying your teaching, I'd be rich.

You mean the teachings of Christ....

In heaven, will there be super rich and super poor? No? Why not? No one will be living for self....In fact EGW say they won't even think of self....

Here, on this world, it's all based on self....Hence you have super rich and super poor....You have folks that live in nice neighborhoods as yourself, and folks that live in broken down trailers or under a bridges. This is what self-love brings....

Those who have an advantage (physically, mentally, etc) use their so called talents to serve themselves....Bill Gates is a good example....He built his empire....He spent many a day thinking of himself and how to build his wealth....And now, to make Himself look all holy, he gives a small percentage away. So you have self-love and you have legalism (more self-love).

Christ, on the other hand, never built wealth for Himself.....He only lived for others....In fact He states that the one who is greatest, in heaven's eyes, is servant of all. He lives to serve....He loves you more than Himself (the cross proves this)....This is agape...a love that has no self-love, self-importance and self-seeking in it....

You and I, on the other hand, have built up much wealth. You, being a doctor, much more of course....But you did this while others were suffering & dying.....Why did you not live as Christ? Answer: Self-love....None of that will exist in heaven. If you think you can take your self-love to heaven think again....Lucifer wasn't allow to develop his self-love in heaven, why do you think you'll take it along?

[Robert]

Here are some EGW statements....Please, find your love of self in the following:

"You will have that love which seeks not her own, but another's wealth."

"Self-love, self-interest, must perish. And the law of self-sacrifice is the law of self-preservation."

Note: Agape seeks not it's own wealth, but another's wealth. Also, self-love, self-interests must perish. So, Doc, when you went to medical school you would have taken that knowledge, not for your own self-interests & wealth, but instead for those around you. But instead you, like all of us, have a life of self-seeking. We all went to college (or whatever) to build up wealth for ourselves. In fact Capitalism is built on this premise. It will fail too (actually it is failing). Why? It's based in iniquity. Why are we, as Christians, participating in it? Answer: Self-love.....That's why in the end we'll be without....“Their earthliness must be removed that the image of Christ may be perfectly reflected.” [4SP 438] Then, when we have nothing, we will be completely Christ reliant. At that time (time of Jacob's trouble) we will experience agape to it's fullest....No more self-love.