Cartoons #1 Educational Problem!

[Bravus]

What does the new US Education Secretary take on in her first week in office?

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/nation/3009795

'Cos ya *know* there's no more urgent educational issue in the country than a little-seen PBS cartoon showing happy families on the farm.

Disclaimer: I've bittne my tongue nearly through in avoiding the gay marriage debate. I have my opinions but I know it's just gonna end up in a pointless flame war so I refrain. The issue I'm raising here is not lesbianism, gay marriage, homosexuality or anything related to it, and I hope you'll avoid getting sidetracked on those topics. The issue is a sense of priorities.

What does the Education Secretary do in her first week? Seek to shut down voices that disagree with the administration. Not an auspicious start, IMO.

[Rosie]

She explains her reasons:

"Education Secretary Margaret Spellings said the episode does not fulfill the intent Congress had in mind for programming. By law, she said, any funded shows must give top attention to "research-based educational objectives, content and materials."

But I agree, the priorities are off.

[Dr. Shane]

Well it looks like Education Secretary Margaret Spellings is looking out for our nation's children.

What can I say other than "It is about time"? Too bad she can't do anything about that Spongebob charachter.

[Bravus]

When she's looking out for the nation's children by fully funding No Child Left Behind and working with failing schools in urban areas, I'll be the first to cheer her on.

[Dr. Shane]

You do kow, of course, that she needs Congress' help in that. I try to give credit where credit is due. PBS should be safe television. I shouldn't have to worry about the content when I let my kids watch PBS.

[Michelle]

"fully funding No Child Left Behind"

Or fully revamping No Child Left Behind, perhaps? I'm not a ps teacher, but without fail, every ps teacher I've talked to unequivocally hates No Child Left Behind. I don't know all the ins and outs of the policy (I haven't taught in 5 1/2 years), but have heard nothing positive from the teachers I know (who cross the spectrum from very conservative to very liberal).

M

[Dr. Shane]

I know teachers that hate it too. That is because the kids have to be tested so they complain that they have to teach to a test. Well, I ask them how else can we measure what a child has learned. Not one has ever gave me a sure alternative.

Testing is not perfect but it has been the means to measure knowledge for centuries. What it comes down to is that teachers don't like it because it makes them accountable in a way they would rather not be. Not that they don't want to be accountable, just not to a test. Well, again, how else do we measure knowledge? Do you want to send your kids to a school where the teachers are not held accountable?

As far as registaring kids for selective service... big deal... they have to registar when they are 18 anyway. This just lets the government better estimate how many to expect to registar in the coming years. No more a scandel than taking a census.

[Neil D]

Quote:

---

I know teachers that hate it too. That is because the kids have to be tested so they complain that they have to teach to a test. Well, I ask them how else can we measure what a child has learned. Not one has ever gave me a sure alternative.

---

I am sure they did, Shane...you just weren't listening. Excessive testing does no good. It causes excessive stress to the child. Bravus has told you that there are other effective ways to cover a multitude of subjects in teaching such that they dove tail into one another. "Better Teaching" is the term that I think he used. But that just went in one ear and out the other.

Quote:

---

Testing is not perfect but it has been the means to measure knowledge for centuries. What it comes down to is that teachers don't like it because it makes them accountable in a way they would rather not be. Not that they don't want to be accountable, just not to a test. Well, again, how else do we measure knowledge? Do you want to send your kids to a school where the teachers are not held accountable?

---

Several month ago, I posted an allegory of the dentist being paid according to the number of cavities in a person's mouth. I see that it was wasted on you....

Quote:

---

As far as registaring kids for selective service... big deal... they have to registar when they are 18 anyway. This just lets the government better estimate how many to expect to registar in the coming years. No more a scandel than taking a census.

---

Since when does the goverment need address and other information on the child? It's the law that the youth needs to register. That is enough. The teachers are not to play spy on the students. And besides, it is a clear departure from student privacy.

[Dr. Shane]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />

I am sure they did, Shane...you just weren't listening.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Very judgmental statement. Do you think that the angels of God do not record every word and deed?

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />

The teachers are not to play spy on the students

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Talk about paranoia <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> I choose not to live in that world. If you have a job and your employer deducts Social Secuity from you than the government knows where you work and how much you make. If you have a driver's license with the correct address, they know where you live. If you own a house, the government knows what it is worth. The government knows where you live, where you work, what kind of car you drive, how much you make, how many children you have (and their names) and can find out how much your banking history as far back as they want to go. Now I can get all paranoid about that and start believing conspiracy theories or I can say God is in control. If the government hunts me down, I trust that God will never abandon me.

I will not lose one minute of sleep because of what the government knows about me. In the end, if my sins are not blotted out by the blood of Christ, all will know everything about me. I am more worried about that.

[Bravus]

http://bravus.port5.com/blog/index.php?p=50

[Neil D]

Having done a bit of looking into the NCLB policy, I would like to explain why I am against it.

No Child Left Behind is a policy that tests children at various elementary grades and once in high school, a unfunded mandate. While the concept sounds good, the problem is at the practical level. First, states are required to test the child. Did you know that all testing between states is not uniform? How can you measure states when their own standards are different?

Second, testing is only ONE way a child learns. Under NCLB, it is the ONLY way a child learns. A child learns, not only by testing, but by experiencing. A crude example is swimming. You can learn all the acadamia that you want regarding swiming..various strokes, floating, ect. but until you experience swiming, can you really say that you KNOW what swimming is? That is what NCLB does. It limits field trips to once per year [according to a California teacher]. Children have to have MANY LIFE EXPERIENCES to be able to learn and CONNECT learning experiences to know. Testing alone does NOT do that. It is life experiences that improve the knowledge base of your child.

3] While NCLB uses the phrase “scientifically based research” 111 times and demands such research from educational researchers, no scientifically based research-or any research--supports the law's mandates.

4] As schools fail to make arbitrary “Adequate Yearly Progress” (AYP) the law imposes punitive, increasingly harsh sanctions. IOWs, "the beatings will continue until morale improves."

[Dr. Shane]

By opposing NCLB you place yourself to the left of both Senators Kennedy and Kerry - quite to the extreame.

This past election I worked as a campaign advisor to a Republican congressional canidate who opposed NCLB. We had many discussions about it. Oddly enough, our Democrat opponent supported NCLB and only criticised the Republicans for not fully funding it.

[Neil D]

Hey, Nico....

Question: What do right wingers do when they can not find a counter arguement against one of their pet darling policies?

Answer: They go after the messenger.

Shane has shown a perfect example of this.

He complains that when he talks to teacher about the NCLB act, they JUST don't want to be held accountable. Well, I gave him at least 4 reasons and he can't come back with a counter arguement. Instead, he does the right winger ploy- go after the messenger. In this case, he says-

Quote:

---

By opposing NCLB you place yourself to the left of both Senators Kennedy and Kerry - quite to the extreame.

---

To which I will answer....I am against anything that is an utter failure. Did you know that under current NCLB policy, that there is a gap of 50% in learning in very state in the Union? Did you know that in 10 years that gap will increase to 80% and in 16 years, that gap will increase to 90%?

The premise of No Child Left Behind is good. It just got no one at the helm who knows what they are doing. That lady that Bush brought in has absolutely NO teaching experience, nor teaching education under her belt. She has no clue...All she is is a political Science major riding on the coat tails of President Bush...

[Dr. Shane]

Unless you have a crystal ball and are talking with the devil, you have no way to know what the future holds.

NCLB has been a great success in many schools where minority students are in the minority. And that was one of the big reasons it was created - to make sure minority students don't get left behind. Fact is that many "A" rated schools have lost their "A" rating becuase of NCLB.

You see I am married to a latin woman and my children are hispanic. I have good reason to support legislation that makes the school system focus on all the students. Fact is that many schools with a white majority were letting their black and hispanic students slip through the cracks. NCLB has changed that. If the black and hispanic students don't test as high as the white students the school loses points.

Don't flatter yourself too much, Brother Neil. I am not attacking you as an individual or a messenger. I am simply putting your radical position in prespective. NCLB is good bipartisan legislation that, like much legislation, will need some fine tuning in the years to come.

[Neil D]

Quote:

---

Unless you have a crystal ball and are talking with the devil, you have no way to know what the future holds.

---

Nope, just the facts that blow the NCLB Republican propoganda machine out of the water. Concider the performace gap in these states in this chart below-

[]http://nochildleft.com/2005/biggap.jpg[/]

What is Going Wrong?

Despite the claims of the NCLB gang and because of their wrong-minded policies, reading instruction in the United States has taken a fatal turn. It may take a decade to reverse the damage as focus has swung to phonics, drill-and-practice and scripted lessons in ways that contribute little to the development of comprehension.

Ideology masquerading as research-based policy is warping the way young children learn while state test results give the (misleading) impression that reading is improving. The scores improve in part because those state tests are tilted in ways that exaggerate (and falsify) results. They also improve when schools drop all other subjects except reading and math. They improve when teachers teach to the test and students memorize patterns. But these kinds of improvements are short lived and unlikely to transfer or show up on more demanding, secure tests that cannot be rehearsed.

Some states, as seen above, have inflated their success stories more than others, wandering farther from the tough standard posed by the NAEP tests. The gaps in Mississippi, Texas and Georgia top the list with a more than 50% gap between state reports of passing students and the NAEP results.

While the Rand Report authors are too polite to state the obvious, what we are seeing is the intrusion of politics into the educational world in ways that are reminiscent of the Enron accounting scandal.

To survive in the NCLB environment, schools and states must look good. It would be better if they also did good, but packaging has replaced substance in some states.

Quoting from the Rand Study . . .

[:"green"] To succeed in post–secondary education or employment, students must emerge from high school possessing literacy skills and critical-thinking skills so that they can extract and construct meaning from a variety of texts. Recent reform efforts have yielded positive results in improving reading achievement for the nation’s children in the primary grades. However, many children are not moving beyond basic decoding skills—deciphering and/or sounding out—to fluency and comprehension, even as they advance to the fourth grade and classes in history, mathematics, and science (deLeon, 2002). [/]

You see Shane, there is more to reading than just sounding out the words...There is understanding and comprehension...something that the Rand Report [which shows bipartisan support] shows greater discrepancys with non-white children.

Hey, don't blame me...Go look at the Rand Report for yourself.

Rand Report

[Dr. Shane]

Again:

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />

NCLB is good bipartisan legislation that, like much legislation, will need some fine tuning in the years to come.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

We don't need to throw out the baby with the bath water.

[Neil D]

Quote:

---

We don't need to throw out the baby with the bath water.

---

When teachers can't do thier job, when they can't do what they have been trained to do, because some meddling politician is gonna get political points out of a PR blitz, I say it's time to take action and get rid of the stupid jerk who implimented it.

As Truman once said, " The buck stops here." indicating the White House.

[Dr. Shane]

You sound angry, Brother Neil. I read through the Rand Report and it doesn't seem to be as negetive on NCLB as you are.

The problem isn't that teachers can't do their job. It may be that their job is now harder to do. It is no wonder so many teachers don't like NCLB. It raised the standards to a level that may be impossible to achieve.

A big problem with achieving high standards is students that don't care. It is hard to teach anything to a student that doesn't want to learn.

[Bravus]

Wanna lift reading scores? Ban television!

[Neil D]

Quote:

---

You sound angry, Brother Neil. I read through the Rand Report and it doesn't seem to be as negetive on NCLB as you are.

---

I read thru it with my wife, a teacher. As she is explaining the ramifications of the NCLB and the Rand report, it becomes very obvious that it is nothing more than a PR political job on John Q. Public.

You said you help with some republican congressman to get re-elected. You really ought to go to him, along with a real teacher who not only gives a darn, but is intelligent enough to explain to you and the congressman how the brain works [i have one in my family] and go thru the Act to see why it is a rediculous bill , and set down with him and listen to the teacher. When you do that, Shane, you will see why I am so angry....It is NOT practical. IT is not an all encompasing learning policy, one that will make teachers really do thier jobs, but rather a policy that makes teachers accountable for only ONE tinest part of their job. This policy has now made it the BIGGEST part of the job.

And the losers are the kids, who come out less equiped to deal with life and problems. Sure, they can read S-T-O-P on a red 8 sided sign, but do they know what it MEANS?

Am I angry? Yeah, I hate it when I have been lied to, especially by politicians. What is just as bad is people who are shown the problem but insist that there is no problem....

Ok, when the train crashes, don't say that I didn't warn you.....

[Rosie]

Quote:

---

However, many children are not moving beyond basic decoding skills—deciphering and/or sounding out—to fluency and comprehension, even as they advance to the fourth grade and classes in history, mathematics, and science (deLeon, 2002).

---

How on earth can children be learning their history, math and science without reading comprehension?

[Neil D]

And the report shows that the descrepancys get larger with ethnicity...Hispanics, and blacks show a large "performance gap" especially at the grade 10 level.

In every state, the perfomance gap was LESS THAN 50% since the NCLB was enacted....Tell me that this is not a PR job!

[Neil D]

[:"blue"] Here's a report on high school students understanding of the constitution....You can read, but you gotta comprehend! [/]

Summary: Teens lack constitution knowledge

By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

THE ISSUE: The John S. and James L. Knight Foundation sponsored a study of high school students' attitudes about the First Amendment to the Constitution that guarantees freedom of religion, speech, press and assembly.

THE FINDING: More than one in three students surveyed said the guarantees went too far, in sharp contrast to teachers and principals who were questioned.

THE REMEDY: Better teaching of the Constitution and the rights that it protects, which the study suggests will be embraced by students once they know of them.

[Neil D]

Shane,

Let me introduce you to another problem that the NCLB does NOT address.

Students who are low achievers.

High achieving students thrive in a stress filled enviroment. If they mess up, they redouble thier efforts and learn more. They have a high confidence in themselves. They can produce.

Low Achievers don't have high confidence in themselves. If they don't suceed, they ask "so what?". Add Stress and you have lost the student totally. Perhaps you remember those students when you were in class. NCLB doesnt address this problem student. Instead, it creates more stress. Intimidation, on this level with a student, doesn't work. At some point, a low or medium achieving student will give up. If a student gives up, the school has a couple of choices- transfer the student, or flog him. And we know that flogging doesn't work. The school gets rid of a "poor student", keeps thier high score and looks good on paper, and keeps thier funding.

You are somewhat of an archectect. Do the math...Add More stress to a low achieving student who has low self esteem, and what is the expected outcome? Remember the saying "The flogging will continue untill the moral improves."? Explain what that will mean to the low achieving student. Explain the loss of dozen of students who are not achieving?

Teachers need access to those practices that help build self esteem. It's not a part of the initial training of teachers, but only on teachers who identified the problem and sought solutions to correct it. It is teacher inservices that help give the master teacher what they need to motivate and teach the children.

"The flogging will continue until the moral improves!" That is what the NCLB really means.

I am really for every student reading, comprehending, and thriving in a learning enviorment to the best of thier abilities. But the NCLB act doesn't work on the practical level. I say scrap the bill and start over. Make it work better.

[Rosie]

Quote:

---

[:"blue"] Here's a report on high school students understanding of the constitution....You can read, but you gotta comprehend! [/]

Summary: Teens lack constitution knowledge

By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

THE ISSUE: The John S. and James L. Knight Foundation sponsored a study of high school students' attitudes about the First Amendment to the Constitution that guarantees freedom of religion, speech, press and assembly.

THE FINDING: More than one in three students surveyed said the guarantees went too far, in sharp contrast to teachers and principals who were questioned.

THE REMEDY: Better teaching of the Constitution and the rights that it protects, which the study suggests will be embraced by students once they know of them.

---

I heard this on the radio this morning. It was just a quick clip about a poll taken at High Schools that said a high percentage of students thought that government should have the final say on what newspapers print! They mentioned the 1rst Amendment goes too far. Can you believe that??!!

Please, please send me a link or post it here!